Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Honky Cat]

59 minutes ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

What I fail to understand, is how some 'fans' now that the draft is 3 years past, seem to want OJ to fail so that they can feel 'right'. As a fan, shouldn't you want the player to succeed and take a wait and see attitude given he's had some unfortunate injuries? I will never understand a fan who needs their ego stroked more than to see a potential stud dman become what he was drafted for. Especially when injuries are the reason he hasn't seen NHL ice yet.

Very few fans want OJ to fail..( there's obviously members of Team Miserable on HF Canucks).. He would be a tremendous bonus if he makes the Canucks.

 

However, to say that it is purely injuries that have held him back is completely false, and there are very legitimate concerns about his play..Some posters here are clearly in denial..

[zombieksa]

I want OJ to be successful for one reason. That reason is so he can say "take that" to all the scrutiny he has received in the years since his draft.

I want him to have a career that makes talking heads say "we were wrong". 

[Glug Datt]

7 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

What I fail to understand, is how some 'fans' now that the draft is 3 years past, seem to want OJ to fail so that they can feel 'right'. As a fan, shouldn't you want the player to succeed and take a wait and see attitude given he's had some unfortunate injuries? I will never understand a fan who needs their ego stroked more than to see a potential stud dman become what he was drafted for. Especially when injuries are the reason he hasn't seen NHL ice yet.

exactly.. how does it help the team if OJ busts? 

 

I guess anyone calling him a bust at this point doesn't want the Canucks to succeed

[theo5789]

6 hours ago, zombieksa said:

I want OJ to be successful for one reason. That reason is so he can say "take that" to all the scrutiny he has received in the years since his draft.

I want him to have a career that makes talking heads say "we were wrong". 

This will never happen, they just cling themselves onto the next thing they can complain about.

[theo5789]

7 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

What I fail to understand, is how some 'fans' now that the draft is 3 years past, seem to want OJ to fail so that they can feel 'right'. As a fan, shouldn't you want the player to succeed and take a wait and see attitude given he's had some unfortunate injuries? I will never understand a fan who needs their ego stroked more than to see a potential stud dman become what he was drafted for. Especially when injuries are the reason he hasn't seen NHL ice yet.

It's okay, they haven't gotten much right, so they're just clinging on for dear life to whatever they can. No GM is perfect, so there's always something they can be "right" about.

[Fanuck]

6 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Some posters here are clearly in denial..

I would argue Honky,  that a HUGE number of posters here, not saying you, actually don't know much about hockey as opposed to just being in denial- to me these are very different concepts.   Yes, they are fans and know the basics like the rules and that the NHL has a salary cap, but they have little to no understanding of how teams develop assets within their organization.  

 

When I hear people categorizing OJ as a 'bust' at this stage in his career in immediately understand they have limited hockey knowledge .  Let me be clear,  I'm not saying OJ is or isn't a bust - only that it is clearly much, much too early to say either way.   Writing off a kid this early exposes more than a person's opinion - it underscores their entire understanding of the process imo.  

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I would argue Honky,  that a HUGE number of posters here, not saying you, actually don't know much about hockey as opposed to just being in denial- to me these are very different concepts.   Yes, they are fans and know the basics like the rules and that the NHL has a salary cap, but they have little to no understanding of how teams develop assets within their organization.  

 

When I hear people categorizing OJ as a 'bust' at this stage in his career in immediately understand they have limited hockey knowledge .  Let me be clear,  I'm not saying OJ is or isn't a bust - only that it is clearly much, much too early to say either way.   Writing off a kid this early exposes more than a person's opinion - it underscores their entire understanding of the process imo.  

I think part of it is just pure old impatience. Ever since McDavid (even the year leading up to his draft) this idea that kids are just ready to step in to the NHL at 18 has permeated discussions in the media so much that now anyone taken in the top 10 is expected to play right away, and now its as if somehow needing to develop a d-man for 2 or 3 years means it was a bad pick, when thats just normal. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

I would argue Honky,  that a HUGE number of posters here, not saying you, actually don't know much about hockey as opposed to just being in denial- to me these are very different concepts.   Yes, they are fans and know the basics like the rules and that the NHL has a salary cap, but they have little to no understanding of how teams develop assets within their organization.  

 

When I hear people categorizing OJ as a 'bust' at this stage in his career in immediately understand they have limited hockey knowledge .  Let me be clear,  I'm not saying OJ is or isn't a bust - only that it is clearly much, much too early to say either way.   Writing off a kid this early exposes more than a person's opinion - it underscores their entire understanding of the process imo.  

Those who defend OJ, and our other young players (who without our future looks not as good as with them being successful) are Canuck’s fans first and foremost.  I’m one of those fans.  We are hopeful for a better future, and know these guys like OJ need to turn out fir that future to be its best.

Those who are so often negative about our young players, IMO, are fans of other teams more than they are ours.  Why else would a poster want our young guys to bustaroo?  

[ForsbergTheGreat]

9 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

What I fail to understand, is how some 'fans' now that the draft is 3 years past, seem to want OJ to fail so that they can feel 'right'. As a fan, shouldn't you want the player to succeed and take a wait and see attitude given he's had some unfortunate injuries? I will never understand a fan who needs their ego stroked more than to see a potential stud dman become what he was drafted for. Especially when injuries are the reason he hasn't seen NHL ice yet.

I don’t see many posters (if any at all) that want Juolevi to fail.  I don’t even see posters that are calling Juolevi a bust.  I just see posters having a hockey discussion on one of our prospects.  Just because people choose to engage in realistic hockey discussion rather than live in fairytale land (where our prospects are on their way to become the next Hart/Norris trophy winners) doesn’t mean they want the kid to fail.  What you mistake as ego stroking is your own confusion with your own insecurities.  The lack of some posters ability to accept that just maybe he’s struggled living up to what we hoped for.  It’s like that protective parent who can’t handle hearing that there kid has flaws and feels the need to pump them up even harder.  

 

If you and few others could take down that guard for a few seconds, you’d start to see that the discussion isn’t about harping negativity on the kid, it’s about managing expectations.  Posters making up falsified claims to pump a kid up does no good for him, it’s just setting him up for unmanageable pressure and even a bigger let down when he doesn’t reach those limits.  Our very own GM recognized this and made this claim after drafting Hughes. 

 

“it takes a lot pressure off of Olli Juolevi, now Olli can just play his game and he is not expected to be a powerplay player.”

 

This team and fans should be ecstatic if he becomes a solid #3 D, expecting him to become the next Josi is simply unfair.  Again so what, he likely doesn’t become better than Tkachuk… why does stating that have to be taken as hate speech? 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

I would argue Honky,  that a HUGE number of posters here, not saying you, actually don't know much about hockey as opposed to just being in denial- to me these are very different concepts.   Yes, they are fans and know the basics like the rules and that the NHL has a salary cap, but they have little to no understanding of how teams develop assets within their organization.  

 

When I hear people categorizing OJ as a 'bust' at this stage in his career in immediately understand they have limited hockey knowledge .  Let me be clear,  I'm not saying OJ is or isn't a bust - only that it is clearly much, much too early to say either way.   Writing off a kid this early exposes more than a person's opinion - it underscores their entire understanding of the process imo.  

 

This is kind of what I was talking about in my last post.  Not to pick on you, but how many posts in the last 15 pages have “written on this kid off”?  I’m curious,  there’s been talk about him not being as good as MT and talk about him not likely becoming a true #1 D but that’s a far cry from writing him off.  

 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by ForsbergTheGreat

[NewbieCanuckFan]

24 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

This is kind of what I was talking about in my last post.  Not to pick on you, but how many posts in the last 15 pages have “written on this kid off”?  I’m curious,  there’s been talk about him not being as good as MT and talk about him not likely becoming a true #1 D but that’s a far cry from writing him off.  

 

 

Actually what bothers me is seeing your username and avatar every time you post.  Besides Salic, Foppa seemed to always make the Canucks his “word that rhymes with witch”   Especially in the playoffs.

Edited July 26, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Kanukfanatic]

36 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don’t see many posters (if any at all) that want Juolevi to fail.  I don’t even see posters that are calling Juolevi a bust.  I just see posters having a hockey discussion on one of our prospects.  Just because people choose to engage in realistic hockey discussion rather than live in fairytale land (where our prospects are on their way to become the next Hart/Norris trophy winners) doesn’t mean they want the kid to fail.  What you mistake as ego stroking is your own confusion with your own insecurities.  The lack of some posters ability to accept that just maybe he’s struggled living up to what we hoped for.  It’s like that protective parent who can’t handle hearing that there kid has flaws and feels the need to pump them up even harder.  

 

If you and few others could take down that guard for a few seconds, you’d start to see that the discussion isn’t about harping negativity on the kid, it’s about managing expectations.  Posters making up falsified claims to pump a kid up does no good for him, it’s just setting him up for unmanageable pressure and even a bigger let down when he doesn’t reach those limits.  Our very own GM recognized this and made this claim after drafting Hughes. 

 

“it takes a lot pressure off of Olli Juolevi, now Olli can just play his game and he is not expected to be a powerplay player.”

 

This team and fans should be ecstatic if he becomes a solid #3 D, expecting him to become the next Josi is simply unfair.  Again so what, he likely doesn’t become better than Tkachuk… why does stating that have to be taken as hate speech? 

But most of the fans on here know OJ has not blossomed as a prospect right out of the gate. They talk about how his injuries may have slowed down his progress towards being an NHL D man.

 

You and a few others just seem to want to continue to hammer home that OJ, as a prospect has just disappointed so far. I mean, look at your condescending words above when you call posters who choose to be positive "live in a fairytale land". That is stupid imo and an attempt to belittle positive attitudes.

 

The difference in opinions is, the upbeat more positive fans try to see the glass as half full. With an off season of training and hopefully being healthy, hopefully OJ develops well and becomes a great player for the Canucks. Something we sorely need on the back end.

 

Instead you and a few others choose to see the glass as half empty by saying we should all be disappointed in OJ and you continue to harp on it over and over. Look at your next bolded statement - that is just YOU who says others can't accept OJ "struggled living up to what we hoped for". You say it over and over.  We all know his injuries have resulted in his development being stunted. Who cares? We hope he develops well this year. Positive fans don't need to hear over and over and over how certain negative "fans" think OJ is not doing well.

 

No offence, but YOU don't need to manage MY expectations...or anyone else's imo.

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[18W-40C-6W]

2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

I would argue Honky,  that a HUGE number of posters here, not saying you, actually don't know much about hockey as opposed to just being in denial- to me these are very different concepts.   Yes, they are fans and know the basics like the rules and that the NHL has a salary cap, but they have little to no understanding of how teams develop assets within their organization.  

 

When I hear people categorizing OJ as a 'bust' at this stage in his career in immediately understand they have limited hockey knowledge .  Let me be clear,  I'm not saying OJ is or isn't a bust - only that it is clearly much, much too early to say either way.   Writing off a kid this early exposes more than a person's opinion - it underscores their entire understanding of the process imo.  

Who you callin honky? Lol

[stawns]

9 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Very few fans want OJ to fail..( there's obviously members of Team Miserable on HF Canucks).. He would be a tremendous bonus if he makes the Canucks.

 

However, to say that it is purely injuries that have held him back is completely false, and there are very legitimate concerns about his play..Some posters here are clearly in denial..

Aside from injuries what leads you to believe that?  He's had two excellent professional seasons (albeit abbreviated) to this point........seems like his development is right on track to me.

[18W-40C-6W]

41 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don’t see many posters (if any at all) that want Juolevi to fail.  I don’t even see posters that are calling Juolevi a bust.  I just see posters having a hockey discussion on one of our prospects.  Just because people choose to engage in realistic hockey discussion rather than live in fairytale land (where our prospects are on their way to become the next Hart/Norris trophy winners) doesn’t mean they want the kid to fail.  What you mistake as ego stroking is your own confusion with your own insecurities.  The lack of some posters ability to accept that just maybe he’s struggled living up to what we hoped for.  It’s like that protective parent who can’t handle hearing that there kid has flaws and feels the need to pump them up even harder.  

 

If you and few others could take down that guard for a few seconds, you’d start to see that the discussion isn’t about harping negativity on the kid, it’s about managing expectations.  Posters making up falsified claims to pump a kid up does no good for him, it’s just setting him up for unmanageable pressure and even a bigger let down when he doesn’t reach those limits.  Our very own GM recognized this and made this claim after drafting Hughes. 

 

“it takes a lot pressure off of Olli Juolevi, now Olli can just play his game and he is not expected to be a powerplay player.”

 

This team and fans should be ecstatic if he becomes a solid #3 D, expecting him to become the next Josi is simply unfair.  Again so what, he likely doesn’t become better than Tkachuk… why does stating that have to be taken as hate speech? 

Why is it unfair to compare him to a second round pick who took 5 years to develop? He was drafted for the level of upside Josi has. 

 

Until he’s played 200 games in the NHL I will continue to expect him to achieve that level of performance. Nothing other than injuries suggests he can’t reach his ceiling and it’s people like you who actually want to ignore that fact. 

[Alflives]

@ForsbergTheGreat

Are the Canucks your only loved team?  

If not, then you cannot understand the way a fan thinks about his only loved team.  I think a lot of younger fans like their home team, but like other teams too.  We need OJ to become a good NHL player for our team to be as good as possible.  We want other teams young players to bustaroo, because that gives the team we live a better chance at winning.  I think you’re right about “fairytale land”.  That’s what it is to love ones home team.  IMO if a fan isn’t in that fairytale land they don’t truly love their team.  They like their team but like other teams too.  It’s like a marriage where the guy likes his wife, but has other women on the side.  That is not love.

[18W-40C-6W]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

@ForsbergTheGreat

Are the Canucks your only loved team?  

If not, then you cannot understand the way a fan thinks about his only loved team.  I think a lot of younger fans like their home team, but like other teams too.  We need OJ to become a good NHL player for our team to be as good as possible.  We want other teams young players to bustaroo, because that gives the team we live a better chance at winning.  I think you’re right about “fairytale land”.  That’s what it is to love ones home team.  IMO if a fan isn’t in that fairytale land they don’t truly love their team.  They like their team but like other teams too.  It’s like a marriage where the guy likes his wife, but has other women on the side.  That is not love.

I don’t think everyone who believes OJ can be a 2-3 dman in the NHL is in fairy tale land, I’m not. That’s what he was drafted for. 

 

When he was drafted JB said he would need a year or two to gain strength but that his skating and mind, and skill were NHL caliber. 

 

He took the year in Junior to get bigger and like many young players who put on the wrong kind of weight came to camp sluggish. That’s been seen many times for anyone who’s been around the game long enough. Kids think just adding weight is all they need, when it can actually slow them down if not the right kind of weight - think Jake 2 years ago. 

 

He goes to Europe, has a slow adjustment period, then is the team’s best defence man in the second half and playoffs. Gets hurt (I believe training in the off-season) and it impacts his training and preparation . 

 

He goes the AHL, slow adjustment and picks up his game and gets hurt. 

 

He was and is developing fine if people are objective, but injuries have got in the way of a quicker transition to the NHL. We clearly would have seen him with the big club last year at some point had injuries not intervened.

 

these people who whine about him, conveniently ignore that;

 

a. He always was expected to take some time 

b. Not every player is immediately ready physically to play in the NHL and it was KNOWN, when he was drafted he was not there

c. Injuries have slowed his progress to the big club.

d. He’s only 21

Edited July 26, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[ForsbergTheGreat]

9 minutes ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

Why is it unfair to compare him to a second round pick who took 5 years to develop? He was drafted for the level of upside Josi has. Until he’s played 200 games in the NHL I will continue to expect him to achieve that level of performance. Nothing other than injuries suggests he can’t reach his ceiling and it’s people like you who actually want to ignore that fact.

 

No Josi a true number one D who puts up 60 point seasons while playing 25 min a night. That is not what Juolevi was drafted to be. That is your own made up narrative.

 

Not even JB expects that out of juolevi. JB clearly stated in his draft year that he didn’t believe Juolevi would be a #1 guy, that he could be a top pairing D but not #1. It’s people like you that create these fairytales.

 

Tryamkin the next chara, jake the next bertuzzi, zhukenov the next datsyuk. Seriously why can you just let the players develop and not set these high, unrealistic expectations....and if the don’t turn out, oh well move on no GM is perfect, so why do some feel the need act as if he is.  

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

40 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

But most of the fans on here know OJ has not blossomed as a prospect right out of the gate. They talk about how his injuries may have slowed down his progress towards being an NHL D man.

 

You and a few others just seem to want to continue to hammer home that OJ, as a prospect has just disappointed so far. I mean, look at your condescending words above when you call posters who choose to be positive "live in a fairytale land". That is stupid imo and an attempt to belittle positive attitudes.

 

The difference in opinions is, the upbeat more positive fans try to see the glass as half full. With an off season of training and hopefully being healthy, hopefully OJ develops well and becomes a great player for the Canucks. Something we sorely need on the back end.

 

Instead you and a few others choose to see the glass as half empty by saying we should all be disappointed in OJ and you continue to harp on it over and over. Look at your next bolded statement - that is just YOU who says others can't accept OJ "struggled living up to what we hoped for". You say it over and over.  We all know his injuries have resulted in his development being stunted. Who cares? We hope he develops well this year. Positive fans don't need to hear over and over and over how certain negative "fans" think OJ is not doing well.

 

No offence, but YOU don't need to manage MY expectations...or anyone else's imo.

 

 

 

I’m sorry my tone offends to the point where your reading comprehension goes out the window. If you are looking for a safe place where only positive things are discussed then maybe you shouldn’t be on an internet discussion board. 

 

Stating that he’s more likely to be a solid 2nd pairing D rather than a #1 D, is not calling the kid a bust. 

Stating that he’s not likely to reach the levels of a p/gp PWF is at, is not writing him off.  

 

If that’s the conclusion some people get out of those statements then I’d suggest for people to not be so damn sensitive.  Not every prospect is going to pan out an become a future HHOF, deal with it. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

25 minutes ago, Alflives said:

@ForsbergTheGreat

Are the Canucks your only loved team?  

If not, then you cannot understand the way a fan thinks about his only loved team.  I think a lot of younger fans like their home team, but like other teams too.  We need OJ to become a good NHL player for our team to be as good as possible.  We want other teams young players to bustaroo, because that gives the team we live a better chance at winning.  I think you’re right about “fairytale land”.  That’s what it is to love ones home team.  IMO if a fan isn’t in that fairytale land they don’t truly love their team.  They like their team but like other teams too.  It’s like a marriage where the guy likes his wife, but has other women on the side.  That is not love.

First and foremost I’m a fan of the sport. I love hockey. Canucks are and always have been my #1. But being a fan of a team doesn’t mean you can’t appreciate players on other teams and skill sets they bring to the game. It doesn’t mean I have to be in a delusion that everything is rainbows and unicorns with this team. If that were the case we’d have had at least one silver trophy to show for it.