Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Guest]

On 8/4/2019 at 2:53 PM, GoldenAlien said:

Let's look at a couple smooth skating, cerebral, two-way top pairing defensemen:

Duncan Keith 

20 year old: 75GP - 7G - 25PT - 0.33PPG in the AHL, 8GP - 1G - 2PT in the playoffs.

21 year old: 79GP - 9G - 26PT - 0.33PPG in the AHL, 6GP - 0G - 0PT in the playoffs.

 

Nick Lidstrom

19 year old: 39GP - 8G - 16PT - 0.41PPG in the SHL, 2GP - 0G - 1PT in the playoffs.

20 year old: 38GP - 4G - 23PT - 0.61PPG in the SHL, 4GP - 0G - 0PT in the playoffs. 

 

Olli Juolevi

19 year old: 38GP - 7G - 19PT - 0.5PPG in the Liiga, 11GP - 2G - 7PT in the playoffs.

20 year old: 18GP - 1G - 13PT - 0.72PPG in the AHL

 

Though stylistically different, the AHL and the SHL/ Liiga are comparable in terms of quality of competition, and Juolevi is easily better than Keith/ Lidstrom as a 19 and 20 year old.  And if you were to judge Lidstrom and Keith by their earlier records, it would suggest that they're poor playoff performers who disappear once the pressure is on.

 

But luckily for their teams, fates aren't determined at 20 years old.

Keith: 2x Norris, 4x All-Star, 1x Conn Smythe, 3x Stanley Cup, 2x Olympic Gold. 

Lidstrom: 7x Norris, 12x All-Star, 1x Conn Smythe, 4x Stanley Cup, 1x Olympic Gold, 1x WC Gold. 

 

Seems like most of the criticism surrounding Juolevi is centred on: 1. did not light the world on fire in his D+1; or 2. did not make the NHL in his D+2/ D+3.  Imagine the uproar if he pulled a Keith and spent all of next season in Utica, and put up 0.3-0.35PPG.  

 

Cam Barker played 35 games in the NHL as a 20 year old.  Giordano spent his 20 year old season as an overager in the OHL.  Now Barker is floating around Europe and Giordano is a Norris winner. Doesn't mean Juolevi will be a 60+pt franchise defenseman, but it's completely illogical to put a cap on his potential because he didn't make the NHL before his fellow draftees.    

Hey you can’t use facts and logic, this is CDC!

[HorvatToBaertschi]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

Sure we have......a smooth skating two way dman with strong offensive instincts.  He's been the same player everywhere he's played, we just haven't seen enough of him

Him having played in Finland plays a part in that as well. We would have seen a lot more video of him if he had stayed on the Knights. Although playing Finland was definetely the right choice for his development, the Knights had nothing left to offer Juolevi.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Looks like he's on track to make it to camp fully recovered.  Let's see what he does.  But my hunch is he will play mostly in Utica this year to get top minutes and see how his game develops.  If he doesn't have any future setbacks I can see him getting called up at some point during the year. 

[Brovat]

Juo is money in the bank. With Edler inked he has sometime to develop and that’s ok. 

 

Think Pod, Juo, and Jake hitting their stride in the nhl all around the same time. 3 years from now is this groups time and they will have a short window to get it done before prospects and cap push a few of them out. 

[Phat Fingers]

21 hours ago, stawns said:

Sure we have......a smooth skating two way dman with strong offensive instincts.  He's been the same player everywhere he's played, we just haven't seen enough of him

Agreed, I want more OJ like Christopher Walken needs more cow bell.  

[Pete M]

On 8/2/2019 at 10:15 AM, stawns said:

It's not a meaningless stat, it's just not an individual stat.

it's an individual stat that contributes to the team stat....both matter, which means it cannot be ignored.

 

...like I've pointed out in the past, the team's with "+" make the playoffs and the teams with "-" do not....however, just need to look down the lineup to see who has contributed to the overall, then look at their match ups compared with others....it's just one piece to the puzzle in order to finish the puzzle.

 

I'd have liked to see OJ with the same amount of points, but a "+ 13" rather than a "-13".

 

That "-13" cannot be ignored...maybe playing on a bad knee contributed to it, but it is a negative to his somewhat positive outlook...I believe OJ is a good offensive defensive defenceman, but there is a question mark because of the "+/-"

Edited August 7, 2019 by Pete M

[Canuck Surfer]

On 8/5/2019 at 7:53 AM, GoldenAlien said:

Let's look at cerebral defensemen:

Duncan Keith 

 

[Guest]

Okay, I'm done. 

 

All of you pointing out Olli's -12 in 18 games clearly need to educate yourselves on just how bad the Comets were to start the year. 

 

After the first 18 games - 

 

5-10-1-2 in 18 games 

46 Goals for (2.56 GF/G)

69 Goals against (3.83 GA/G)

 

Lost 5 games by 4+ goals 

Won 0 games by 4+ goals 

 

Now, Olli was top 2/4 throughout each of these games. Doesn't it make sense that with a team as bad as this, he'd have these sorts of numbers? He had a hand in 28% of his team's points, which is bodes very well for a rookie defender. He had better numbers with the Comets than with TPS Turku, for frickety-fracks sake! 

[WeneedLumme]

8 hours ago, Stamkos said:

Okay, I'm done. 

 

All of you pointing out Olli's -12 in 18 games clearly need to educate yourselves on just how bad the Comets were to start the year. 

 

After the first 18 games - 

 

5-10-1-2 in 18 games 

46 Goals for (2.56 GF/G)

69 Goals against (3.83 GA/G)

 

Lost 5 games by 4+ goals 

Won 0 games by 4+ goals 

 

Now, Olli was top 2/4 throughout each of these games. Doesn't it make sense that with a team as bad as this, he'd have these sorts of numbers? He had a hand in 28% of his team's points, which is bodes very well for a rookie defender. He had better numbers with the Comets than with TPS Turku, for frickety-fracks sake! 

Very good points. Good enough that the haters will need to completely ignore them if they want to continue to pretend that OJ's +/- last year means he is a crappy player. Like the clown who expected him to be able to produce a plus-13 in an 18 game stretch where the team was minus-23.

[Dungass]

I'm very aware how unpopular it is on this fan-based website to say anything negative about our guys.  So I'll choose my words carefully.  I bought the Comet's streaming package last year, in large part to watch OJ (but was generally very excited for the team).  What I noticed was a kid with smooth skating, soft hands, fantastic at defensive zone exits.  I also noticed that he had a lot of trouble in the corners and effectively tying or clearing his man from the front of the net.  Basically, some great hockey tools, but lacking the physicality of a NHL d-man.  

[HorvatToBaertschi]

3 minutes ago, Dungass said:

I'm very aware how unpopular it is on this fan-based website to say anything negative about our guys.  So I'll choose my words carefully.  I bought the Comet's streaming package last year, in large part to watch OJ (but was generally very excited for the team).  What I noticed was a kid with smooth skating, soft hands, fantastic at defensive zone exits.  I also noticed that he had a lot of trouble in the corners and effectively tying or clearing his man from the front of the net.  Basically, some great hockey tools, but lacking the physicality of a NHL d-man.  

I would think that's a common issue for 20 yo defensemen, regardless of draft placement. Exceptions are the Ekblad/Gudbranson types that already have that NHL frame when they play in juniors. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Dungass said:

I'm very aware how unpopular it is on this fan-based website to say anything negative about our guys.  So I'll choose my words carefully.  I bought the Comet's streaming package last year, in large part to watch OJ (but was generally very excited for the team).  What I noticed was a kid with smooth skating, soft hands, fantastic at defensive zone exits.  I also noticed that he had a lot of trouble in the corners and effectively tying or clearing his man from the front of the net.  Basically, some great hockey tools, but lacking the physicality of a NHL d-man.  

He did have his knee, too. I highly doubt that it didn’t impact his play in some case. 

 

Olli is still a big kid, so really all this is at this point is confidence. Confidence can be taught, the other stuff he has, that can’t. 

[theo5789]

4 hours ago, Dungass said:

I'm very aware how unpopular it is on this fan-based website to say anything negative about our guys.  So I'll choose my words carefully.  I bought the Comet's streaming package last year, in large part to watch OJ (but was generally very excited for the team).  What I noticed was a kid with smooth skating, soft hands, fantastic at defensive zone exits.  I also noticed that he had a lot of trouble in the corners and effectively tying or clearing his man from the front of the net.  Basically, some great hockey tools, but lacking the physicality of a NHL d-man.  

 

Just kidding, it's a fair assessment. I think his physicality will progress more along the lines of an Edler. A lot of good dmen don't play the physical game impressively, but they play it smart and that comes from seasoning and learning from vets on what you can cheat a little on and the limits you can push. If that is the biggest concern, then I'm happy with the progress so far.

[wildwood12]

I just listened to Craig Button from a couple of years ago talking about Juolevi. He said it is very hard to find very good defence men, you have to draft them.

He said Juolevi is not flashy but he will be a very good defence man who will play 15 years in the NHL.

He will get the puck very quickly out of his own end, up to the forwards.

I agree with Button, it’s been a wait because of injuries, but I hope he makes his NHL debut this year.

[Pete M]

12 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Very good points. Good enough that the haters will need to completely ignore them if they want to continue to pretend that OJ's +/- last year means he is a crappy player. Like the clown who expected him to be able to produce a plus-13 in an 18 game stretch where the team was minus-23.

obviously you didn't get the point about "+/-"...feel free to ignore that stat and stay ignorant.

[Pete M]

12 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Very good points. Good enough that the haters will need to completely ignore them if they want to continue to pretend that OJ's +/- last year means he is a crappy player. Like the clown who expected him to be able to produce a plus-13 in an 18 game stretch where the team was minus-23.

nothing against OJ... however, there were good players on the team that were "+" players ....they too played on this crappy team. OJ still has some development to do with his "D" game.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Pete M
add

[Canuck Surfer]

1 minute ago, Pete M said:

So the boys with "+" stat must be incredibly good players by you logic...they too played on this crappy team.

Did you come to the thread just to crap on the player?

 

Got anything else...

[Kanukfanatic]

6 minutes ago, Pete M said:

nothing against OJ... however, there were good players on the team that were "+" players ....they too played on this crappy team. OJ still has some development to do with his "D" game.

What is your point again about +/- in a small amount of games?

 

Are you trying to say it means something?

 

 

[Pete M]

12 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Did you come to the thread just to crap on the player?

 

Got anything else...

 

8 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

What is your point again about +/- in a small amount of games?

 

Are you trying to say it means something?

 

 

just stating facts dudes...when another poster is pointing out facts as well...OJ's has potential and he will be an NHLer, but the 18pts with "-12" tells me he has some development to do on his "D" game at the pro level compared to some other "D" who are on the same crappy team. (by the way, the team wasn't crappy until they lost Sautner, Schenn, Blujus and Brisebois ...all "+" players).

Edited August 8, 2019 by Pete M