Canuck Surfer Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Pete M said: just stating facts dudes...when another poster is pointing out facts as well...OJ's has potential and he will be an NHLer, but the 18pts with "-12" tells me he has some development to do on his "D" game at the pro level compared to some other "D" who are on the same crappy team. (by the way, the team wasn't crappy until they lost Sautner, Schenn, Blujus and ...all "+" players). You have essentially said the same thing three times in three posts. Now a 4th. Without adding anything. The point was made on the first go... On 8/1/2019 at 11:08 AM, Pete M said: OJ needs to come to camp healthy and if he is ready to play NHL level, then he needs to be given the chance...already think he will be an upgrade on Hutton, Pouliot, MDZ, etc. This is better. Positive at least? Still short of a lot of substance. If you have anything regarding what will improve his +/-? That would be better. Look at Dungass's comment? 12 hours ago, Dungass said: I'm very aware how unpopular it is on this fan-based website to say anything negative about our guys. So I'll choose my words carefully. I bought the Comet's streaming package last year, in large part to watch OJ (but was generally very excited for the team). What I noticed was a kid with smooth skating, soft hands, fantastic at defensive zone exits. I also noticed that he had a lot of trouble in the corners and effectively tying or clearing his man from the front of the net. Basically, some great hockey tools, but lacking the physicality of a NHL d-man. Its critical. But had some observation, some points about where he could improve. What he did that was exciting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: You have essentially said the same thing three times in three posts. Now a 4th. Without adding anything. The point was made on the first go... This is better. Positive at least? Still short of a lot of substance. If you have anything regarding what will improve his +/-? That would be better. Look at Dungass's comment? Its critical. But had some observation, some points about where he could improve. What he did that was exciting. no I said several different things..you just don't get it.... A player can get points and everyone can point it out that OJ got 18 pts....but god forbid when you point out that he was "-12", which means he was on the ice for 30 goals against. He needs to improve on his defensive game by focusing on defense first....he is not helping the team when he played 18 games and was on the ice for 30 goals against. Edited August 8, 2019 by Pete M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Just now, Pete M said: no I said several different things..you just don't get it.... A player can get points and everyone can point it out that OJ got 18 pts....but god forbid when you point out that he was "-12", which means he was on the ice for 30 goals against. He needs to improve on his defensive game by focusing on defense first....he is not helping the team when he played 18 games and was on the ice for 30 goals against. Yup, I don't get that you are doing more than picking on his +/-. What did I miss? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Just now, Canuck Surfer said: Yup, I don't get that you are doing more than picking on his +/-. What did I miss? carry on dude 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: Yup, I don't get that you are doing more than picking on his +/-. What did I miss? I guess I made the mistake of following the gopher down the gopher hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, Pete M said: just stating facts dudes...when another poster is pointing out facts as well...OJ's has potential and he will be an NHLer, but the 18pts with "-12" tells me he has some development to do on his "D" game at the pro level compared to some other "D" who are on the same crappy team. (by the way, the team wasn't crappy until they lost Sautner, Schenn, Blujus and Brisebois ...all "+" players). Looked like the D that Played big minutes all had - and those that were not relied on as much had some + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, FaninMex said: Looked like the D that Played big minutes all had - and those that were not relied on as much had some + no...they brought in some players to shore up the "D" and lost some good "D" to the big club and a few to injury....the team was doing well when those players I mentioned were playing. The stats of the other "D" got worst when they lost Schenn, Brisebois, Sautner and Blujus (all at the same time). Edited August 8, 2019 by Pete M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Your stats are corrupted because it is end of year stats so it is not worth pointing too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 12 hours ago, Dungass said: I'm very aware how unpopular it is on this fan-based website to say anything negative about our guys. So I'll choose my words carefully. I bought the Comet's streaming package last year, in large part to watch OJ (but was generally very excited for the team). What I noticed was a kid with smooth skating, soft hands, fantastic at defensive zone exits. I also noticed that he had a lot of trouble in the corners and effectively tying or clearing his man from the front of the net. Basically, some great hockey tools, but lacking the physicality of a NHL d-man. 13 hours ago, Dungass said: I'm very aware how unpopular it is on this fan-based website to say anything negative about our guys. So I'll choose my words carefully. I bought the Comet's streaming package last year, in large part to watch OJ (but was generally very excited for the team). What I noticed was a kid with smooth skating, soft hands, fantastic at defensive zone exits. I also noticed that he had a lot of trouble in the corners and effectively tying or clearing his man from the front of the net. Basically, some great hockey tools, but lacking the physicality of a NHL d-man. I rather comments like this then the crap that is said about him on hfboards. worse is they are coming from Canucks fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Find the stats at the 18 game mark when Olli went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 21 hours ago, Stamkos said: Okay, I'm done. All of you pointing out Olli's -12 in 18 games clearly need to educate yourselves on just how bad the Comets were to start the year. After the first 18 games - 5-10-1-2 in 18 games 46 Goals for (2.56 GF/G) 69 Goals against (3.83 GA/G) Lost 5 games by 4+ goals Won 0 games by 4+ goals Now, Olli was top 2/4 throughout each of these games. Doesn't it make sense that with a team as bad as this, he'd have these sorts of numbers? He had a hand in 28% of his team's points, which is bodes very well for a rookie defender. He had better numbers with the Comets than with TPS Turku, for frickety-fracks sake! I watched those 18 games. Juolevi was terrible defensively - he was one of the reasons the team was so bad. He was walked constantly and looked like he couldn’t pivot to the left. Maybe he was carrying his injury from the beginning of the year, but if that was truly indicative of the best he had to offer, he has a lot of development that remains to be done. He did not look anything like the player in the World Juniors, and nothing like the player that played in the Finnish league - so I’m supposing that health may have been an issue. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 47 minutes ago, Pete M said: nothing against OJ... however, there were good players on the team that were "+" players ....they too played on this crappy team. OJ still has some development to do with his "D" game. Record before Juolevi’s injury - 6-10-2 46 GF (2.56 GF/G) 69 GA (3.83 GA/G) Record after Juolevi’s injury - 28-24-6 178 GF (3.10 GF/G) 188 GA (3.24 GA/G) Guys can make their +/- up after the teams cruddy start, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, FaninMex said: Find the stats at the 18 game mark when Olli went down. I was keeping tabs on the team all year...the team would have made the playoffs (down the stretch) if they had Sautner, Brisebois and Schenn who were with the big club for 8 to 10 games or more and they lost Blujus to injury and got Saucerman as a replacement. Edited August 8, 2019 by Pete M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Pete M said: I was keeping tabs on the team all year...the team would have made the playoffs (down the stretch) if they had Sautner, Brisebois and Schenn who were with the big club for 8 to 10 games or more and they lost Blujus to injury and got Saucerman as a replacement. If this was the case then your primary point wouldn’t be the +/- of a player on a cruddy team before injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Stamkos said: If this was the case then your primary point wouldn’t be the +/- of a player on a cruddy team before injury No...the team got better even without OJ....the team got cruddy when they lost all their good defenseman near the end of year. Like Ray_Cathode pointed out....OJ was not good defensively (which is indicative of his "+/-" stat), which a defenceman needs to be first and foremost to help the team win..this is the aspect of the game that OJ needs to improve. Edited August 8, 2019 by Pete M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) When is someone going to bring up Bo's 40 point and team worst -30 season (he was 20 years old then) and call him a poor player? Erik Karlsson as a 20 year old put up 45 points, but a -30. Chris Pronger as a 20 year old put up 25 points and a -18. I think the point I'm trying to make is that +/- doesn't necessarily tell the whole story of a player. Edited August 8, 2019 by theo5789 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, theo5789 said: When is someone going to bring up Bo's 40 point and team worst -30 season (he was 20 years old then) and call him a poor player? Erik Karlsson as a 20 year old put up 45 points, but a -30. Chris Pronger as a 20 year old put up 25 points and a -18. I think the point I'm trying to make is that +/- doesn't necessarily tell the whole story of a player. I agree....as long as the player develops into those types of players, which OJ has all the tools to do so...he is not there yet (which his +/- stat indicates), but he has the tools to get there, if he can stay healthy. ...someone also pointed out stats of Norris trophy winning "D" that had worst stats than OJ at 20 years old...OJ still has a long career ahead of him if he keeps developing and working on his game. It's all good until the wheels falls off the wagon and I don't see that happening to OJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Pete M said: just stating facts dudes...when another poster is pointing out facts as well...OJ's has potential and he will be an NHLer, but the 18pts with "-12" tells me he has some development to do on his "D" game at the pro level compared to some other "D" who are on the same crappy team. (by the way, the team wasn't crappy until they lost Sautner, Schenn, Blujus and Brisebois ...all "+" players). He had 13 points in 18 games, not 18 points. 8 of his 13 were PP points, thus not factoring on plus minus stats. He had 5 points at 5 on 5, was a -12, so was on the ice for 17 goals at 5 on 5 (or maybe 4 on 4 or 3 on 3. - the advanced stats don't differentiate), so conceding 1 goal per game at even strength when playing as the top defenseman isn't indicative of a shoddy defenseman at all. Just sayin' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Googlie said: He had 13 points in 18 games, not 18 points. 8 of his 13 were PP points, thus not factoring on plus minus stats. He had 5 points at 5 on 5, was a -12, so was on the ice for 17 goals at 5 on 5 (or maybe 4 on 4 or 3 on 3. - the advanced stats don't differentiate), so conceding 1 goal per game at even strength when playing as the top defenseman isn't indicative of a shoddy defenseman at all. Just sayin' yes he struggled. and? please go on. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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