Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[LOG]

Fred... Utica was terrible last year and decimated by injuries. They had an especially rough start and a negative goal differential. Oli was the top guy on a team that couldn't score and got lit up. He put up PP points which don't affect +/- stat. I recall Brisbois had terrible plus minus in the Q but that hasn't carried on to AHL. It seems you are using this stat to drive a negative narrative without looking at the greater context.

[Kosmo Kramer]

36 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Before he was injured last season OJ  had the worse +/- in the AHL for a defenseman. I understand the argument about +/- but taken over a course of time ( useless game to game) it shows a tendency and in this case it's not good. I'm fascinated by way folks choose to ignore facts and cling to dreams. On Canuck Way, there was a bunch who couldn't grasp  Virtanen's failure, seems  like on this forum it's OJ. Every one wants him to do well ( including me ) but if you're a GM for instance, you need to plan and cover the spot for the future. I hope Rafferty, Teves, Woo or Rathbone can come through

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

 

I hope he reaches his potential,  but I wouldn't stop stocking our defense prospects counting on him to make it.

 

I don't consider us deep at any position through the organization.

 

Well... maybe Goal

[hobart16]

2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Before he was injured last season OJ  had the worse +/- in the AHL for a defenseman. I understand the argument about +/- but taken over a course of time ( useless game to game) it shows a tendency and in this case it's not good. I'm fascinated by way folks choose to ignore facts and cling to dreams. On Canuck Way, there was a bunch who couldn't grasp  Virtanen's failure, seems  like on this forum it's OJ. Every one wants him to do well ( including me ) but if you're a GM for instance, you need to plan and cover the spot for the future. I hope Rafferty, Teves, Woo or Rathbone can come through

Meaningless stat. Who had the worst plus minus in the nhl among defenseman last year?  Ristolainen at -41. He is and was better than every Canuck defenseman you can name for the last ten years. Who was 2d worst? Drew Doughty -38. He is even better than Risto and has more Stanley cup rings than the Canucks organization all by himself. These guys are among the best defenseman in the nhl for multiple years.  Bad plus minus means you were the best defenseman on a bad team playing all the PK minutes, getting all the d starts and covering all the best players in the league. Which is exactly what OJ was doing and on a bum leg to boot. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by hobart16

[Laheys Liquor]

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Laheys Liquor

[Phat Fingers]

9 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Ignoring the consequences of 2 years of limited training, practice and games due to injuries and the effect that can on a prospects development lacks reason.

Their position is even more irrational when taking in to account that the season is less than 10 games old.  Impatience is not reason.

[Phat Fingers]

8 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Before he was injured last season OJ  had the worse +/- in the AHL for a defenseman. I understand the argument about +/- but taken over a course of time ( useless game to game) it shows a tendency and in this case it's not good. I'm fascinated by way folks choose to ignore facts and cling to dreams. On Canuck Way, there was a bunch who couldn't grasp  Virtanen's failure, seems  like on this forum it's OJ. Every one wants him to do well ( including me ) but if you're a GM for instance, you need to plan and cover the spot for the future. I hope Rafferty, Teves, Woo or Rathbone can come through

Fred,

 

Thanks for bringing up the Anti Jake group into things too.  Really the anti Jake crowd is the anti OJ crowd. 

 

When Jake made progress to the NHL, OJ became the next target.  First he was a target cause Tkachuk,.

Second issue, cause he didn't increase his production while playing on a depleted team in his d plus 1 season.  

 He then became a target cause Hesikena (sp?) out preformed OJ in Finland in his d plus 2 year.  Never mentioning that both players beat the previous U 20 record for points by a d man, that Hesikanen was in his second year in that league while OJ was on a completely new team. 

 

Then OJ hit NA and had 13 points in 18 games playing injured and his plus minus was the issue.  All while a rookie AHLer in a new league with a new team.  Forgetting that had he not been injured his plus minus would not have stayed where it was.  He had time to improve his play. 

 

Now the same group of people are bitching because OJ is a bit rusty after having 9 months off to recover from surgery and while getting better each game, cause he isn't perfect yet less than 10 games into the season.  

 

Super reasonable level headed thinking....  lol.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Phat Fingers

[UticaHockey]

Juolevi just keeps getting better every game.  He still needs to find an extra gear in his skating when needed but he didn't put himself in a position where he needed it either game this weekend.

 

He is not a new wave puck moving defenseman like Quinn Hughes but he sees the ice as well as any defenseman I've watched in the AHL. Great breakout passes and all of the subtle little plays that often go unnoticed. He has become a shot blocking machine and takes away passing and shooting lanes so effectively with good stick and body positioning.

 

He needs to stay down here playing big minutes and continue to work on his skating but when he does get called up people will be pleasantly surprised.

[WeneedLumme]

52 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Their position is even more irrational when taking in to account that the season is less than 10 games old.  Impatience is not reason.

With the huge increase in quality and depth on both the big team and the farm, the trolls are like the wasps at the end of the summer; they are fast running out of food and know their time is near an end, so they become irrational, desperately looking for any pretext to be obnoxious.

[Phat Fingers]

10 hours ago, 112 said:

Who denies that injuries can affect development?

 

And isn't that a good reason to have tempered expectations for Juolevi? Why are you stating it like it helps his case?

Most posters that deride the OJ pick have use a confirmation bias method and ignore or discount any evidence that goes against their narrative.  

 

See my previous post of the brief account of all the anti OJ 'causes'.  

 

It is intellectually dishonest or just plain ignorant.  

 

It is fine to say 'I don't like the OJ pick cause I wanted Tkachuk.'  But beyond that alot of those posters look for reasons to knock OJ without acknowledging anything that OJ has done or shown that counters their pre conceived negative outlook.  

 

This type of arguement is popular with climate deniers, creationists, Donald Trump and his supporters.  

 

Again, like or don't like OJ cause of Tkachuk.  Just realize that we have OJ and that he needs to evaluated by his own merits and actions.  NOT vs whom was on the board when he was drafted.  

Edited October 20, 2019 by Phat Fingers

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Most posters that deride the OJ pick have use a confirmation bias method and ignore or discount any evidence that goes against their narrative.  

 

See my previous post of the brief account of all the anti OJ 'causes'.  

 

It is intellectually dishonest or just plain ignorant.  

 

It is fine to say 'I don't like the OJ pick cause I wanted Tkachuk.'  But beyond that alot of those posters look for reasons to knock OJ without acknowledging anything that OJ has done or shown that counters their pre conceived negative outlook.  

 

This type of arguement is popular with climate deniers, creationists, Donald Trump and his supporters.  

 

Again, like or don't like OJ cause of Tkachuk.  Just realize that we have OJ and that he needs to evaluated by his own merits and actions vs whom was on the board when he was drafted.  

If the only goal JB should have is to build a team capable to win a Cup, then when we win one with OJ on our blue line it will prove his choice was the correct one.  Will that mess in Calgary win a Cup?  

[gttxc]

40 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Most posters that deride the OJ pick have use a confirmation bias method and ignore or discount any evidence that goes against their narrative.  

 

See my previous post of the brief account of all the anti OJ 'causes'.  

 

It is intellectually dishonest or just plain ignorant.  

 

It is fine to say 'I don't like the OJ pick cause I wanted Tkachuk.'  But beyond that alot of those posters look for reasons to knock OJ without acknowledging anything that OJ has done or shown that counters their pre conceived negative outlook.  

 

This type of arguement is popular with climate deniers, creationists, Donald Trump and his supporters.  

 

Again, like or don't like OJ cause of Tkachuk.  Just realize that we have OJ and that he needs to evaluated by his own merits and actions.  NOT vs whom was on the board when he was drafted.  

I am definitely hopeful for Joulevi but the confirmation bias is strong on both sides and the hypocrisy here is kinda silly.  By that I mean, you criticizing one extreme bias but not criticizing the other side for being biased is kinda biased.  Both sides have solid ground to stand here and tempering of opinions are definitely needed.  Although, understanding the difference in context regarding draft disicions and Joulevi’s development is important.

 

On a side note, here is an article about the impacts of genetics on injuries.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/02/the-genetics-of-being-injury-prone/385257/

 

I’m not saying Joulevi is prone to injuries due to genetics, (I have not mapped his genome, work it progress ) or to confuse correlation with causation, it’s just something else to put into the probability of success calculator.

Edited October 20, 2019 by gttxc
A word

[BlastPast]

1 hour ago, Phat Fingers said:

Most posters that deride the OJ pick have use a confirmation bias method and ignore or discount any evidence that goes against their narrative.  

 

This, except you can insert the name of any player they don't like.

[Ballisticsports.]

7 hours ago, hobart16 said:

Meaningless stat. Who had the worst plus minus in the nhl among defenseman last year?  Ristolainen at -41. He is and was better than every Canuck defenseman you can name for the last ten years. Who was 2d worst? Drew Doughty -38. He is even better than Risto and has more Stanley cup rings than the Canucks organization all by himself. These guys are among the best defenseman in the nhl for multiple years.  Bad plus minus means you were the best defenseman on a bad team playing all the PK minutes, getting all the d starts and covering all the best players in the league. Which is exactly what OJ was doing and on a bum leg to boot. 

Only that +/- are not counted on pk or pp

Also, the two offensive players you mentioned, always get the offensive zone starts, being the best players available to score

[Ihatetomatoes]

12 hours ago, hobart16 said:

I’m a season ticket holder and saw both games this weekend. The Comets won these games by a combined score of 15-3 so obviously a lot of good things happening and maybe it is easier to play d with 5 goal leads but OJ is getting the top pairing and having no trouble at all defending some pretty good players. Charlotte had some heavy forwards too. Half the time OJ challenged people almost at mid ice and just stopped them cold and turned the puck around, he challenged every time at the blue line again with success. Not flashy and not necessarily a puck carrier type either like Quinn Hughes but jury is still out. He has had serious leg injuries and I think he is rounding into form just now. 

 

Looks good on PK and he isn’t going to blast anybody through the boards with hard checks but he also isnt getting pushed around. 

 

No no need to panic. Another year from now with a full AHL season with good health under his belt and we will have something for sure. 

This is good to hear. Juolevi has always had the smarts and talent to be an NHL level defender but it seems that since he put on weight after his draft year his foot speed and skating really slowed down. It's something he's going to have to improve on but at the same time he might just be smart enough to overcome the lack of foot speed to be a solid defender at the NHL level. Just looking at Edler you can see how a guy can be effective at the NHL level even when he can't keep up with fast forwards. You just gotta take a few interference penalties a game like Eddy so you don't get made to look silly. Lol. 

[stawns]

7 hours ago, hobart16 said:

Meaningless stat. Who had the worst plus minus in the nhl among defenseman last year?  Ristolainen at -41. He is and was better than every Canuck defenseman you can name for the last ten years. Who was 2d worst? Drew Doughty -38. He is even better than Risto and has more Stanley cup rings than the Canucks organization all by himself. These guys are among the best defenseman in the nhl for multiple years.  Bad plus minus means you were the best defenseman on a bad team playing all the PK minutes, getting all the d starts and covering all the best players in the league. Which is exactly what OJ was doing and on a bum leg to boot. 

Risto is not better than Edler or Tanev.  He may be in his prime, but is not now

[higgyfan]

12 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Only that +/- are not counted on pk or pp

Also, the two offensive players you mentioned, always get the offensive zone starts, being the best players available to score

Looking at the Comets +/- stats last year indicates a very weak team. 

 

OJ has never had even a -1 in his Jr years (including playoffs and world championship games), or in his pro year with Liiga.

[WHL rocks]

Delete

 

Wrong thread 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by WHL rocks

[Winter Soldier]

8 hours ago, hobart16 said:

Meaningless stat. Who had the worst plus minus in the nhl among defenseman last year?  Ristolainen at -41. He is and was better than every Canuck defenseman you can name for the last ten years.

....no.

[Noble 6]

That pass to Boucher was elite. That's an example of hockey sense taking over a game. 

 

If he gets his skating to average NHL level then he should be fine.

[Phat Fingers]

4 hours ago, gttxc said:

I am definitely hopeful for Joulevi but the confirmation bias is strong on both sides and the hypocrisy here is kinda silly.  By that I mean, you criticizing one extreme bias but not criticizing the other side for being biased is kinda biased.  Both sides have solid ground to stand here and tempering of opinions are definitely needed.  Although, understanding the difference in context regarding draft disicions and Joulevi’s development is important.

 

On a side note, here is an article about the impacts of genetics on injuries.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/02/the-genetics-of-being-injury-prone/385257/

 

I’m not saying Joulevi is prone to injuries due to genetics, (I have not mapped his genome, work it progress ) or to confuse correlation with causation, it’s just something else to put into the probability of success calculator.

Not saying OJ is a success.  Not saying he will be one with his ups and downs he could go either way.  

 

The folks I was being critical of were those that have hated the pick and have never changed their position and only mention negative aspects of IJ while ignoring his upside.