wexcar Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 47 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: I am calling this pick a bust he is never going to make it to the NHL ...if it’s not his lacking of nhl talent it’s his injuries so may of us wanted MT but this was a rare draft miss by JB win some and you lose some 40 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: I am calling that opinion ...a bust... You don't write off a 21 year old D.man You don't write off a first round pick before they played there first game. You don't call someone lacking in talent ...when it is yourself lacking in knowledge. We will still be winning this one...! Just watch...! I don't know.....for me an NHL bust is a player who is drafted high and is proven just not good enough to play in the NHL(they are either not good enough to get there or once there are exposed as not good enough). This does not really apply to OJ as injuries are what has stopped him from getting game time in the NHL and he has had no opportunity to show if he is good enough for the league. I believe he has the talent to be a NHL player even though injuries have most likely lowered his ceiling and I believe if he had remained injury free since the draft he most likely would be on the roster now. If he doesn't make the league due to injury we cannot call him a bust, it will have been a wasted pick because we didn't get an NHL player but all team's/GM's waste picks on a regular basis. Its better to let his career play out before any labels are applied. If one must be applied at this moment then injury-prone is probably most fitting at the moment. Hopefully he can shake of these injuries, stay healthy and get a shot to prove whether he can be an NHL player or not... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bree2 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, canuck2288 said: I am calling this pick a bust he is never going to make it to the NHL ...if it’s not his lacking of nhl talent it’s his injuries so may of us wanted MT but this was a rare draft miss by JB win some and you lose some because he has had a rash of some unfortunate injuries? he left the Utica team so quickly and flown back to Van, this time because of the wording , not calling it an injury, I am not a doctor but it could be a blood clot, this happens after a surgery. but to call him a bust, is really laughable when he is only 21 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, bree2 said: because he has had a rash of some unfortunate injuries? he left the Utica team so quickly and flown back to Van, this time because of the wording , not calling it an injury, I am not a doctor but it could be a blood clot, this happens after a surgery. but to call him a bust, is really laughable when he is only 21 'only' 21? this is professional hockey. 21 is a very late developmental stage. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bree2 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, 112 said: 'only' 21? this is professional hockey. 21 is a very late developmental stage. your kidding right!!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, bree2 said: your kidding right!!!! No. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 2 hours ago, 112 said: 'only' 21? this is professional hockey. 21 is a very late developmental stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Just now, sonoman said: do players improve more from 18-21 or 21-24? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, 112 said: do players improve more from 18-21 or 21-24? It varies man lol Obviously 18-21 are important years but the majority of players make it around 22-25. Players develop differently, throw in injuries and it becomes absolutely unpredictable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, 112 said: do players improve more from 18-21 or 21-24? Players generally improve at their own rates. It’s not an exact science. There is way to look up various articles on this which I’ve included in this post. It’s an accepted fact that NHL defensemen take longer to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, sonoman said: Players generally improve at their own rates. It’s not an exact science. There is way to look up various articles on this which I’ve included in this post. It’s an accepted fact that NHL defensemen take longer to develop. Yeah, look at a guy like Bieksa. Didn't really come into his own until north of 25 years old. Then you have Edler, who seemed to have developed at an incredible rate. Some guys never develop or jump over that hurdle. Some guys do. It isn't an exact science. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 whatever. we're not getting the player we hoped we drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Alflives said: Lots of people watch the NFL only because they have different kinds of wagers on the league. If the NHL wants to increase interest through a similar way, then those who bet will want to know about injuries. huh, that seems weirdly predatory to me. But I also don't care at all for the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 9 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: I am calling that opinion ...a bust... You don't write off a 21 year old D.man You don't write off a first round pick before they played there first game. You don't call someone lacking in talent ...when it is yourself lacking in knowledge. We will still be winning this one...! Just watch...! Are you serious? tell me straight up you think think OJ will be better than MT? I want the kid to be successful but injuries and his slow development will keep him from being a star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 8 hours ago, wexcar said: I don't know.....for me an NHL bust is a player who is drafted high and is proven just not good enough to play in the NHL(they are either not good enough to get there or once there are exposed as not good enough). This does not really apply to OJ as injuries are what has stopped him from getting game time in the NHL and he has had no opportunity to show if he is good enough for the league. I believe he has the talent to be a NHL player even though injuries have most likely lowered his ceiling and I believe if he had remained injury free since the draft he most likely would be on the roster now. If he doesn't make the league due to injury we cannot call him a bust, it will have been a wasted pick because we didn't get an NHL player but all team's/GM's waste picks on a regular basis. Its better to let his career play out before any labels are applied. If one must be applied at this moment then injury-prone is probably most fitting at the moment. Hopefully he can shake of these injuries, stay healthy and get a shot to prove whether he can be an NHL player or not... I understand you perspective totally but he should have been in the NHL by now, give. His draft position. a first round bust can still be a solid mhm soldier, just not the blue chip first rounder we hoped for 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 7 hours ago, bree2 said: because he has had a rash of some unfortunate injuries? he left the Utica team so quickly and flown back to Van, this time because of the wording , not calling it an injury, I am not a doctor but it could be a blood clot, this happens after a surgery. but to call him a bust, is really laughable when he is only 21 It’s more than injuries. He could not make it when he was healthy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 5 hours ago, canuck2288 said: I am calling this pick a bust he is never going to make it to the NHL ...if it’s not his lacking of nhl talent it’s his injuries so may of us wanted MT but this was a rare draft miss by JB win some and you lose some I don't think he has a lack of talent -- he is clearly talented as evidenced by him being the top defenseman on that gold medal-winning WJC team and his junior team. He was a top-pairing defenseman for his Finnish Liiga team in the playoffs (injuries bumped him up to that role, but he did not look out of place) and even now playing on the top-pairing in the AHL. At the time the Juolevi pick was solid and if anything was a reach by 1 or just a few spots depending on what draft list you look at. Benning chose who he and his scouting staff believed to be the best defenseman. Who knew Juolevi would have all these injuries? Speaking of injuries, imagine if we ended up with Vilardi instead of Pettersson! I absolutely agree with what you said -- you win some and you lose some. So far we're losing on the Juolevi pick but hit a home run with others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruilin96 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Hope he gets some breaks and not have to deal with injuries and get some proper playing time in the AHL before we can bring him up to the NHL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, Blömqvist said: I don't think he has a lack of talent -- he is clearly talented as evidenced by him being the top defenseman on that gold medal-winning WJC team and his junior team. He was a top-pairing defenseman for his Finnish Liiga team in the playoffs (injuries bumped him up to that role, but he did not look out of place) and even now playing on the top-pairing in the AHL. At the time the Juolevi pick was solid and if anything was a reach by 1 or just a few spots depending on what draft list you look at. Benning chose who he and his scouting staff believed to be the best defenseman. Who knew Juolevi would have all these injuries? Speaking of injuries, imagine if we ended up with Vilardi instead of Pettersson! I absolutely agree with what you said -- you win some and you lose some. So far we're losing on the Juolevi pick but hit a home run with others! That I agree with as I said in my original post JB has been right way more than he has been wrong when it comes to drafting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 53 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: It’s more than injuries. He could not make it when he was healthy. You can't really say that because he hasn't ever been truly healthy in NA playing pro and is still pretty young. He's been derailed a year but that's just the card we got dealt. You could say that we should of drafted Tkachuk and say we'd be a better team in the short term and you'd be right. But there would be a good chance we miss out on Petey/Hughes the following years as a result of having the 2016 draft pick make an instant impact. It's speculation but not in a senseless point of view. I guess that's how luck/karma works. Like you said you win some you lose some. I am not discounting Juolevi yet. He's been a real unfortunate prospect for us with his injuries. I hope he is able to pull through and become a top 4 guy down the line because Edler is not getting any younger. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Not to be pessimistic, but at this point I'm kinda writing OJ off any future projected lineups, and I'll consider it a bonus if he's able to make it. He had to take nearly a full season off last year due to injury, and now with this mysterious injury that nobody is coming clean about, it's kinda hard to hold any expectations for him. The fact that they're being so secretive about what's wrong with him tells me that it's not a minor issue. Obviously this is pure speculation, but I don't have a good feeling about it at all. On a personal level, I feel terrible for the kid. Other than the one mediocre draft +1 season, he's progressed every season he's played, and would probably be in the NHL right now if not for the injuries. He may not have panned out as the top pairing guy we wanted out of the draft, but it still looked like he could be a pretty damn legit top 4. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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