Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Fred65]

3 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Quoting Kelly Anne Conway is not a positive.  

 

Your need to have confirmation of your POV while continuing to ignore or belittle information that is contrary to your POV is all but cemented with KAC and 'alternative facts'.  

 

Taking the plus minus stat (completing miss using and over stating it's importance) while ignoring sample size, improved play in a Rookie, deployment and likely you haven't even watched OJ play, your POV is about as accurate as Trumps.  

 

Choosing to be inside your own bubble is fine.  Just don't bother to try and convince others unless you want to see facts vs your alternatives.  

 

Rafferty is 3 years older, not recovering from an injury and his success is great.  It doesn't bear negatively on OJ.  

 

You have no idea what kind of deployment OJ a d Rafferty are getting.  OJ is a player expected to play in the NHL one day.  At the AHL, I would hope that Cull would have him focus on play without the puck as his offence is not a concern. 

 

As for Lind.  Better than Brock... straw man approach. 

 

No one is talking about Brock or Lind.  We are talking about defenceman.  Maybe keep that in mind.  

 

OJ has a path to the NHL if he can stay healthy.  ACL tears are difficult injuries.  I speak from experience.  But with a good surgeon, a full recovery should be expected.  

 

That, said, if he has gotten back on the ice, he likely has had a full recovery.  It will cause some pelvic shifting as the injured leg will end up being slightly shorter due to losing some elasticity in the connecting tissues from the injury and the repair.  Hip soreness which kept him out of some games is a secondary issue that often appears in recovery.  It is often on the opposite side.  

 

Again, OJ has time.  He gets 55 to 60 games this year and playoffs, it will do wonders.  That's looking good so far.  

 

The reference to Ms Conway was not intended as a positive. It suggested that some folks prefer to live in a world of alternate facts.

 

ps I'm Pre Boomer 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Fred65

[Kootenay Gold]

5 hours ago, Fred65 said:

ps I'm Pre Boomer 

pre 1946.... been around the block a few times have ya lol.

 

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, Kootenay Gold said:

pre 1946.... been around the block a few times have ya lol.

 

Yup and around the world a few times, tends to diminish naivety 

[Kanukfanatic]

11 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Quoting Kelly Anne Conway is not a positive.  

 

Your need to have confirmation of your POV while continuing to ignore or belittle information that is contrary to your POV is all but cemented with KAC and 'alternative facts'.  

 

Taking the plus minus stat (completing miss using and over stating it's importance) while ignoring sample size, improved play in a Rookie, deployment and likely you haven't even watched OJ play, your POV is about as accurate as Trumps.  

 

Choosing to be inside your own bubble is fine.  Just don't bother to try and convince others unless you want to see facts vs your alternatives.  

 

Rafferty is 3 years older, not recovering from an injury and his success is great.  It doesn't bear negatively on OJ.  

 

You have no idea what kind of deployment OJ a d Rafferty are getting.  OJ is a player expected to play in the NHL one day.  At the AHL, I would hope that Cull would have him focus on play without the puck as his offence is not a concern. 

 

As for Lind.  Better than Brock... straw man approach. 

 

No one is talking about Brock or Lind.  We are talking about defenceman.  Maybe keep that in mind.  

 

OJ has a path to the NHL if he can stay healthy.  ACL tears are difficult injuries.  I speak from experience.  But with a good surgeon, a full recovery should be expected.  

 

That, said, if he has gotten back on the ice, he likely has had a full recovery.  It will cause some pelvic shifting as the injured leg will end up being slightly shorter due to losing some elasticity in the connecting tissues from the injury and the repair.  Hip soreness which kept him out of some games is a secondary issue that often appears in recovery.  It is often on the opposite side.  

 

Again, OJ has time.  He gets 55 to 60 games this year and playoffs, it will do wonders.  That's looking good so far.  

 

Excellent post. I can't see that other posters posts and you reminded me why lol.

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Juolevi is basically being groomed to replace Edler. So he needs to play the tough minutes in Utica in all situations so he can come to Vancouver as a complete defenceman. 
 

Edler will be around at least another year after this year and maybe longer so we have time to develop OJ properly and not have to rush him into the lineup. 
 

if he can come in and start contributing at 22 or 23 then that timeline works as we either re-sign Edler to another year extension or we bring up Juolevi full time after next year. 
 

I think with no more injury setbacks another full year in Utica after this year should be enough time for Juolevi to take over a top 4 spot on our blue line. 
 

As for Rafferty he could be a great weapon to have on the 2nd unit PP.  If he can continue to develop at this pace he should be able to replace Stecher in the lineup next year and we can save millions in cap space and hopefully get something in return for Stecher. 

[Master 112]

22 hours ago, Fred65 said:

To quote the German philosopher Hegel. 

For the who don't follow the  philosophers, which may, may, include millennials it means that wisdom and experience ( the owl ) only occurs late in life ( dusk )   You'll graduate to the owl status many years from now. I suspect many, many, many years from now.

 

ps. Hegelianism. Hegelianism is the philosophy of G. W. F. Hegel which can be summed up by the dictum that "the rational alone is real"

i mean, i like hegel, but to cite him as some sort of grand truth-authority is kind of silly when it's entirely rational to disregard the meat of his corpus as philosophical madness. there have been legitimate and great philsophers who have done exactly that.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Juolevi is basically being groomed to replace Edler. So he needs to play the tough minutes in Utica in all situations so he can come to Vancouver as a complete defenceman. 
 

Edler will be around at least another year after this year and maybe longer so we have time to develop OJ properly and not have to rush him into the lineup. 
 

if he can come in and start contributing at 22 or 23 then that timeline works as we either re-sign Edler to another year extension or we bring up Juolevi full time after next year. 
 

I think with no more injury setbacks another full year in Utica after this year should be enough time for Juolevi to take over a top 4 spot on our blue line. 
 

As for Rafferty he could be a great weapon to have on the 2nd unit PP.  If he can continue to develop at this pace he should be able to replace Stecher in the lineup next year and we can save millions in cap space and hopefully get something in return for Stecher. 

My concern with Juolevi staying down more season is that he will have to pass through waivers at the beginning of next season...…….I don't think he would get threw

Not if he is that close

 

but as for their development and expectations………...I think you are bang on

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

My concern with Juolevi staying down more season is that he will have to pass through waivers at the beginning of next season...…….I don't think he would get threw

Not if he is that close

 

but as for their development and expectations………...I think you are bang on

OJ is still on his ELC next season, so as far as I can tell, he won't need waivers next season.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

OJ is still on his ELC next season, so as far as I can tell, he won't need waivers next season.

If so then that's excellent news.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

OJ is still on his ELC next season, so as far as I can tell, he won't need waivers next season.

I agree with Herb, that would be excellent news, but I heard we had to protect him...…..I hope I am wrong!

[theo5789]

5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I agree with Herb, that would be excellent news, but I heard we had to protect him...…..I hope I am wrong!

Cap friendly shows he's still on his ELC next season. His ELC slid for the first couple of years after he signed. Where did you hear that we had to protect him? We have to protect him from expansion though.

[Phat Fingers]

5 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Cap friendly shows he's still on his ELC next season. His ELC slid for the first couple of years after he signed. Where did you hear that we had to protect him? We have to protect him from expansion though.

Hughes, Trymakin (if he returns) and OJ need protection from expansion. 

 

I don't see any veteran d man getting protected atm.  

 

It would be super dirty of Seatle to pluck Edler.  He has been a Canuck to the bone and I would love to see him retire here.  

 

If Marky re ups, I could see Demko being a prime target.  We are in too fragile a situation to risk losing Marky unless Demko somehow starts stealing games.  

[Elias Pettersson]

9 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

My concern with Juolevi staying down more season is that he will have to pass through waivers at the beginning of next season...…….I don't think he would get threw

Not if he is that close

 

but as for their development and expectations………...I think you are bang on

He is on his ELC for one more year so he doesn't need waiver protection next year...

[theo5789]

55 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Hughes, Trymakin (if he returns) and OJ need protection from expansion. 

 

I don't see any veteran d man getting protected atm.  

 

It would be super dirty of Seatle to pluck Edler.  He has been a Canuck to the bone and I would love to see him retire here.  

 

If Marky re ups, I could see Demko being a prime target.  We are in too fragile a situation to risk losing Marky unless Demko somehow starts stealing games.  

From what I've read, I thought Hughes didn't play the games required in his first season and shouldn't need protection. His contract is up as it burned off a year but didn't meet the requirements of being a year of pro. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

Tryamkin is also a question mark, but I believe he does need protection if he returns this season. If he returns next season, then we wouldn't.

 

OJ definitely needs protection. I imagine Myers will be protected.

 

Edler is a UFA which he conveniently signed (and people think he's going to retire in two years ). So they could pluck him, but he just doesn't have to sign with them. He pretty much self protected himself because being here is more important than the money and term.

 

I think our defense is pretty safe. Certainly a goalie up for grabs, but it'll depend on what goalies are available (possibly Holtby). I doubt they want to grab too many goalies as the market to trade them will be thin. Depending on who we protect or not, I could feasibly see a Lind or Motte being taken if they aren't protected. Maybe Roussel. Will certainly be interesting to see who leave available, but whatever the case, just let them take whoever and move on. Don't make any side deals.

[Wanless]

2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Hughes, Trymakin (if he returns) and OJ need protection from expansion. 

 

I don't see any veteran d man getting protected atm.  

 

It would be super dirty of Seatle to pluck Edler.  He has been a Canuck to the bone and I would love to see him retire here.  

 

If Marky re ups, I could see Demko being a prime target.  We are in too fragile a situation to risk losing Marky unless Demko somehow starts stealing games.  

Hughes doesn't need to be protected

 

He only played 5 games, enough to burn a year of ELC, but not the 10 required to count as a professional season.

[J.I.A.H.N]

8 hours ago, theo5789 said:

From what I've read, I thought Hughes didn't play the games required in his first season and shouldn't need protection. His contract is up as it burned off a year but didn't meet the requirements of being a year of pro. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

Tryamkin is also a question mark, but I believe he does need protection if he returns this season. If he returns next season, then we wouldn't.

 

OJ definitely needs protection. I imagine Myers will be protected.

 

Edler is a UFA which he conveniently signed (and people think he's going to retire in two years ). So they could pluck him, but he just doesn't have to sign with them. He pretty much self protected himself because being here is more important than the money and term.

 

I think our defense is pretty safe. Certainly a goalie up for grabs, but it'll depend on what goalies are available (possibly Holtby). I doubt they want to grab too many goalies as the market to trade them will be thin. Depending on who we protect or not, I could feasibly see a Lind or Motte being taken if they aren't protected. Maybe Roussel. Will certainly be interesting to see who leave available, but whatever the case, just let them take whoever and move on. Don't make any side deals.

That is actually what I thought, but I didn't think it through on Juolevi...that makes sense too.

 

so if I understand it properly...…….

 

For October .2020-2021 Season opener                                                                       June 2020-2021 Expansion draft

 

Edler starts the last year of his contract...……………………………………..Doesn't need to protected because technically not under contract

Myers is on a NMC......…...…………...…………...……………………...…....Requires Protection - draft eligible

Hughes signed and is waiver exempt...……………………………...……......Expansion Draft protected

Benn is on his second year of his contract...……………………………….....Requires Protection - draft eligible

Tanev needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible …………………….. Requires Protection - draft eligible

Stecher needs to be re-signed and is waiver is eligible …………………Requires Protection - draft eligible

Fanenberg needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible ………………...Requires Protection - draft eligible

 

Juolevi still on ELC and waiver exempt ………………………………………...Requires Protection - draft eligible

Rafferty is still waiver exempt …………………………………………………....Requires Protection - draft eligible

Tryamkin is waiver exempt if he plays 2019-2020 season...………………….Requires Protection - if he plays this year (2019-2020) Otherwise he is exempt

Chatfield needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible ……………….......Requires Protection - draft eligible

Brisebois needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible …………………..Requires Protection - draft eligible

Sauntner needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible ……………………Requires Protection - draft eligible

 

UFA's needing resigning at the end of the 2020-2021 season are Expansion Draft exempt, because technically they are not property of the club until they sign

RFA's needing resigning at the end of the 2020-2021 season are Expansion Draft eligible, because technically they still belong to the club, even if un-signed

 

Please correct if you see any mistakes...…….thanks!

Edited December 28, 2019 by janisahockeynut

[Elias Pettersson]

29 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

That is actually what I thought, but I didn't think it through on Juolevi...that makes sense too.

 

so if I understand it properly...…….

 

For October .2020-2021 Season opener                                                                       June 2020-2021 Expansion draft

 

Edler starts the last year of his contract...……………………………………..Doesn't need to protected because technically not under contract

Myers is on a NMC......…...…………...…………...……………………...…....Needs to be protected because of NMC

Hughes signed and is waiver exempt...……………………………...……......Expansion Draft protected

Benn is on his second year of his contract...……………………………….....Requires Protection - draft eligible

Tanev needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible …………………….. Requires Protection - draft eligible

Stecher needs to be re-signed and is waiver is eligible …………………Requires Protection - draft eligible

Fanenberg needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible ………………...Requires Protection - draft eligible

 

Juolevi still on ELC and waiver exempt ………………………………………...Requires Protection - draft eligible

Rafferty is still waiver exempt …………………………………………………....Requires Protection - draft eligible

Tryamkin is waiver exempt if he plays 2019-2020 season...………………….Requires Protection - if he plays this year (2019-2020) Otherwise he is exempt

Chatfield needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible ……………….......Requires Protection - draft eligible

Brisebois needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible …………………..Requires Protection - draft eligible

Sauntner needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible ……………………Requires Protection - draft eligible

 

UFA's needing resigning at the end of the 2020-2021 season are Expansion Draft exempt, because technically they are not property of the club until they sign

RFA's needing resigning at the end of the 2020-2021 season are Expansion Draft eligible, because technically they still belong to the club, even if un-signed

 

Please correct if you see any mistakes...…….thanks!

Everything is correct except Benn will also be a UFA along with Edler, so he doesn't need protection.  If Tryamkin re-signs with us in the summer then I can see the 3 guys we protect as follows:

 

Myers

Juolevi

Tryamkin

 

Guys that would be eligible for the draft would be as follows:

 

Stecher (if he's still around)

Rafferty

Brisebois

Teves

Chatfield

Sautner

 

Rafferty could be the guy Seattle wants in the draft.  Or Kole Lind.  It's not a given they would take Demko, especially with his concussion history.  Stecher most likely will be moved in the summer.  If Rafferty is the real deal I'd try to protect him as much as possible, even giving up a draft pick.  We could use Lind as trade bait in a package with Stecher and Demko to fetch a top 6 forward if we were to trade Demko.

 

Benning will have a lot of decisions to make next year.  But at the end of the day we will only use lose one player, so it won't be the end of the world.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Elias Pettersson

[JeremyCuddles]

4 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Hughes, Trymakin (if he returns) and OJ need protection from expansion. 

 

I don't see any veteran d man getting protected atm.  

 

It would be super dirty of Seatle to pluck Edler.  He has been a Canuck to the bone and I would love to see him retire here.  

 

If Marky re ups, I could see Demko being a prime target.  We are in too fragile a situation to risk losing Marky unless Demko somehow starts stealing games.  

Edler is a UFA the summer of the expansion draft if I recall correctly. 

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

That is actually what I thought, but I didn't think it through on Juolevi...that makes sense too.

 

so if I understand it properly...…….

 

For October .2020-2021 Season opener                                                                       June 2020-2021 Expansion draft

 

Edler starts the last year of his contract...……………………………………..Doesn't need to protected because technically not under contract

Myers is on a NMC......…...…………...…………...……………………...…....Needs to be protected because of NMC

Hughes signed and is waiver exempt...……………………………...……......Expansion Draft protected

Benn is on his second year of his contract...……………………………….....Requires Protection - draft eligible

Tanev needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible …………………….. Requires Protection - draft eligible

Stecher needs to be re-signed and is waiver is eligible …………………Requires Protection - draft eligible

Fanenberg needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible ………………...Requires Protection - draft eligible

 

Juolevi still on ELC and waiver exempt ………………………………………...Requires Protection - draft eligible

Rafferty is still waiver exempt …………………………………………………....Requires Protection - draft eligible

Tryamkin is waiver exempt if he plays 2019-2020 season...………………….Requires Protection - if he plays this year (2019-2020) Otherwise he is exempt

Chatfield needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible ……………….......Requires Protection - draft eligible

Brisebois needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible …………………..Requires Protection - draft eligible

Sauntner needs to be re-signed and is waiver eligible ……………………Requires Protection - draft eligible

 

UFA's needing resigning at the end of the 2020-2021 season are Expansion Draft exempt, because technically they are not property of the club until they sign

RFA's needing resigning at the end of the 2020-2021 season are Expansion Draft eligible, because technically they still belong to the club, even if un-signed

 

Please correct if you see any mistakes...…….thanks!

Myers' NMC is only for this season. It becomes a modified NTC for the rest of the contract, which allows him to have 10 teams he is not allowed to be traded to. We technically don't need to protect him and I wonder if maybe we actually don't, which would allow us to make a big splash signing/trade and protect that player.

 

As mentioned already, Benn's contract will expire at the same time as Edler, so it would be a similar circumstance that allows him the freedom to actually join any team or re-sign instead of possibly being plucked up by Seattle.

 

Is Rafferty eligible? I'm not sure he meets the pro requirement as it would be similar to Hughes in that I don't think last year counted since he didn't get enough games.

 

I can't see us retaining Tanev and Stecher beyond this season due to cap reasons and depending if Fantenberg wants to stay here and if we can afford him, I have my doubts that we need to protect him as well (and likely won't even if it comes to it). Sautner might move on unless he happy with a 7th/8th pressbox cheap dman role (NHL salary though).

 

I think we are pretty comfortably set on defense in terms of the expansion.

[dpn1]

I thought Myers contract had a provision that he will not have to be protected in the Expansion.  If the Canucks want to protect him they can but they don't have to.