Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[RowdyCanuck]

On January 10, 2020 at 6:21 PM, Fred65 said:

Hughes took that challenge and separated himself from the "other" I think Rafferty has taken the chllange and separated him self from the herd. OJ right now has not shown himself to be clearly better than other prospects. He needs to do that, and then I'll be happy. Now seems to me he's in a state of flux, will he won't he. IMO. More competition for him next season with the arrival of Rathbone ? Competition is always there, heck Fantenberg has popped up out of no where. So far this season he's tied with Briesbois except Briesbois has better defensive number, which by the way has been OJ achillies heel since he joinde the Canucks org.

 

Here's an article from THN entitled The top 10 NHL draft busts

 

10. OLLI JUOLEVI, Canucks, fifth in 2016
Defensemen develop slower than forwards, no doubt, and Juolevi has battled some bad injury luck, but that doesn’t change the fact he’s a top-five draft pick who hasn’t reached the NHL almost four years after being picked. He was supposed to become a franchise defenseman. Instead, excluding the most recent draft class, Juloevi is the only top-five pick in the past 48 drafts not to play an NHL game yet. He likely will soon enough, which is why he doesn’t rank higher on this list. He’s only 21 years old, which makes him a young pup in defenseman years. He may go on to have a good NHL career. But the lack of NHL output to date is so extreme that he has to make this list.

 

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/the-top-10-nhl-draft-busts-of-the-decade

Just wanted to add, OJ has dominated or look good in ever league he has played and comparing him to Hughes or even Rathbone is difficult cause OHL and ncaa are very different. 

Both hughes and Rathbone learned to play against bigger bodies and how to change their game to account for the lack of size or muscle. 

OJ on the other hand after he was drafted he stayed in the OHL and was one of the bigger bodies, so going over seas helped him grow his game something he probably wouldn't have done in the OHL or he would be even further behind in his development cause he wouldn't have learned from salo and wouldn't have played against men. 

From what I've seen of OJ , he has the tools , it's just health is the problem. 

 

[the grinder]

1 hour ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Just wanted to add, OJ has dominated or look good in ever league he has played and comparing him to Hughes or even Rathbone is difficult cause OHL and ncaa are very different. 

Both hughes and Rathbone learned to play against bigger bodies and how to change their game to account for the lack of size or muscle. 

OJ on the other hand after he was drafted he stayed in the OHL and was one of the bigger bodies, so going over seas helped him grow his game something he probably wouldn't have done in the OHL or he would be even further behind in his development cause he wouldn't have learned from salo and wouldn't have played against men. 

From what I've seen of OJ , he has the tools , it's just health is the problem. 

 

oj has the tools but the tool box keeps getting dented lol

[knucklehead91]

There’s this guy who went by the name of Sami Salo, who never played a full season and had countless injuries. His career wasnt too shabby... only a minus player once in his career. 
Just sayin.... just because someone gets banged up, doesnt mean they cant carve out a career.

Give the kid a break ffs.

tons of you doubted Virtanen... hes finally showing his potential and on pace for 20goals 40+pts

Markstrom was a bum a couple years ago.... two seasons in a row now, hes looking like a vezina calibre goalie.

Petey was too frail.... the whole league knows who he is and he stamped his name with authority all over every goalie and defender.

Hughes is too small.... hes tearing it up and using positioning rather than strength to his advantage..

Bo Horvat was too slow... hes one of the strongest most powerful skaters on the team.

Anyone see the trend??? A little time and a fair chance, players can succeed.

Dont give up.

[BPA]

Silly to give up on a prospect.  It's not over until JB says it's over (aka Dahlen, etc).

[cyoung]

1 hour ago, knucklehead91 said:

 His career wasnt too shabby... only a minus player once in his career. 

Holy heck!

[the grinder]

2 hours ago, haton said:

Was he injured his last year of junior when he lost his spot on the first line power play unit?

so he got moved off the power play in junior  big deal   he still managed the same amount of points every year in 2 seasos in london then played in a mens league in finland  while still being eligible for the ohl 

Edited January 13, 2020 by the grinder

[BCNate]

7 points in his last 8, while being +5.  Obviously a small sample size, but looks like he is turning it on a bit as of late.  Hope he can keep it up, probably his best stretch of games he's had in Utica.

[JM_]

Just now, BCNate said:

7 points in his last 8, while being +5.  Obviously a small sample size, but looks like he is turning it on a bit as of late.  Hope he can keep it up, probably his best stretch of games he's had in Utica.

maybe he's finally rid of whatever nagging injuries he's had. With his back and knee problems I'm not surprised that he'd need a while to finally get into game shape. 

[theo5789]

11 minutes ago, BCNate said:

7 points in his last 8, while being +5.  Obviously a small sample size, but looks like he is turning it on a bit as of late.  Hope he can keep it up, probably his best stretch of games he's had in Utica.

 

What are the naysayers going to have left to say? Rafferty is better?

[Tre Mac]

5 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

What are the naysayers going to have left to say?

Nay?

[aGENT]

12 hours ago, haton said:

Was he injured his last year of junior when he lost his spot on the first line power play unit?

Elder lost his pp spot to Hughes in a far better league. Clearly he's trash.

[higgyfan]

On 1/11/2020 at 3:03 PM, Fred65 said:

Excuses and more excuses. I do to some degree agree an ad hock journalist opinion counts for little. The reason I quoted it was to show that (A) the journalist is independent (B) not a cheerleader. He has no dog in the fight. Your strident opinions on the other hand is from a Canuck FANS view point, some what biased.

Yes, the writer appears unbiased, but even at that, he certainly hasn't given up on Juolevi becoming a

 

10. OLLI JUOLEVI, Canucks, fifth in 2016
Defensemen develop slower than forwards, no doubt, and Juolevi has battled some bad injury luck, but that doesn’t change the fact he’s a top-five draft pick who hasn’t reached the NHL almost four years after being picked. He was supposed to become a franchise defenseman. Instead, excluding the most recent draft class, Juloevi is the only top-five pick in the past 48 drafts not to play an NHL game yet. He likely will soon enough, which is why he doesn’t rank higher on this list. He’s only 21 years old, which makes him a young pup in defenseman years. He may go on to have a good NHL career. But the lack of NHL output to date is so extreme that he has to make this list.

 

Yes, the writer appears to be unbiased (he's the only one I've ever heard call Juolevi a supposed franchise player), but even at that, he certainly hasn't given up on Juolevi becoming an NHL dman.  He is only basing his adding Olli to the list is because he hasn't played a single NHL game; which is a bad indicator for a #5 overall pick.  Of course, like you, he minimizes the effect that these injuries/surgeries/lack of training have on a pro athlete's development. 

 

You comment that fans that support Juolevi are 'cheerleaders', but I see it as a different perspective than your offerings.  You have obviously given up on any chance that Olli will become and a NHL player; not due his injuries, but simply because he's just not good enough at the game of hockey.  I respect that you are entitled to your own opinion, as am I.

 

Imo, he may have been drafted a bit too high, but he was certainly considered a top 10 pick by most scouts.  Maybe he turns  out to be 'a bust', but I will wait until he has had a healthy season and off season, which will give him a chance to prove himself.  Afterall, he is just 21yrs. 

 

Fans are praising  Rafferty (24) and Fantenberg, who never skated on NHL ice until they were Rath at 23yrs has played 2 games and Fant at 29, played his first NHL game at 29.   Maybe they will become NHL players too!

[BCNate]

32 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

 

What are the naysayers going to have left to say? Rafferty is better?

I'm pretty happy to have both.  This loaded prospect pipeline is something I could get used to.  

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, BCNate said:

I'm pretty happy to have both.  This loaded prospect pipeline is something I could get used to.  

Plus Woo and Rathbone and a likely returning Tryamkin 

[higgyfan]

On 1/11/2020 at 3:03 PM, Fred65 said:

Excuses and more excuses. I do to some degree agree an ad hock journalist opinion counts for little. The reason I quoted it was to show that (A) the journalist is independent (B) not a cheerleader. He has no dog in the fight. Your strident opinions on the other hand is from a Canuck FANS view point, some what biased.

Yes, the writer appears unbiased, but even at that, he certainly hasn't given up on Juolevi becoming a

 

10. OLLI JUOLEVI, Canucks, fifth in 2016
Defensemen develop slower than forwards, no doubt, and Juolevi has battled some bad injury luck, but that doesn’t change the fact he’s a top-five draft pick who hasn’t reached the NHL almost four years after being picked. He was supposed to become a franchise defenseman. Instead, excluding the most recent draft class, Juloevi is the only top-five pick in the past 48 drafts not to play an NHL game yet. He likely will soon enough, which is why he doesn’t rank higher on this list. He’s only 21 years old, which makes him a young pup in defenseman years. He may go on to have a good NHL career. But the lack of NHL output to date is so extreme that he has to make this list.

 

Yes, the writer appears to be unbiased (he's the only one I've ever heard call Juolevi a supposed franchise player), but even at that, he certainly hasn't given up on Juolevi becoming an NHL dman.  He is only basing his adding Olli to the list is because he hasn't played a single NHL game; which is a bad indicator for a #5 overall pick.  Of course, like you, he minimizes the effect that these injuries/surgeries/lack of training have on a pro athlete's development. 

 

You comment that fans that support Juolevi are 'cheerleaders', but I see it as a different perspective than your offerings.  You have obviously given up on any chance that Olli will become and a NHL player; not due his injuries, but simply because he's just not good enough at the game of hockey.  I respect that you are entitled to your own opinion, as am I.

 

Imo, he may have been drafted a bit too high, but he was certainly considered a top 10 pick by most scouts.  Maybe he turns  out to be 'a bust', but I will wait until he has had a healthy season and off season, which will give him a chance to prove himself.  Afterall, he is just 21yrs. 

 

Fans are praising  Rafferty (24) and Fantenberg, who never skated on NHL ice until they were Rath at 23yrs has played 2 games and Fant at 29, played his first NHL game at 29.   Maybe they will become NHL players too!

[BCNate]

5 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Yes, the writer appears unbiased, but even at that, he certainly hasn't given up on Juolevi becoming a

 

10. OLLI JUOLEVI, Canucks, fifth in 2016
Defensemen develop slower than forwards, no doubt, and Juolevi has battled some bad injury luck, but that doesn’t change the fact he’s a top-five draft pick who hasn’t reached the NHL almost four years after being picked. He was supposed to become a franchise defenseman. Instead, excluding the most recent draft class, Juloevi is the only top-five pick in the past 48 drafts not to play an NHL game yet. He likely will soon enough, which is why he doesn’t rank higher on this list. He’s only 21 years old, which makes him a young pup in defenseman years. He may go on to have a good NHL career. But the lack of NHL output to date is so extreme that he has to make this list.

 

Yes, the writer appears to be unbiased (he's the only one I've ever heard call Juolevi a supposed franchise player), but even at that, he certainly hasn't given up on Juolevi becoming an NHL dman.  He is only basing his adding Olli to the list is because he hasn't played a single NHL game; which is a bad indicator for a #5 overall pick.  Of course, like you, he minimizes the effect that these injuries/surgeries/lack of training have on a pro athlete's development. 

 

You comment that fans that support Juolevi are 'cheerleaders', but I see it as a different perspective than your offerings.  You have obviously given up on any chance that Olli will become and a NHL player; not due his injuries, but simply because he's just not good enough at the game of hockey.  I respect that you are entitled to your own opinion, as am I.

 

Imo, he may have been drafted a bit too high, but he was certainly considered a top 10 pick by most scouts.  Maybe he turns  out to be 'a bust', but I will wait until he has had a healthy season and off season, which will give him a chance to prove himself.  Afterall, he is just 21yrs. 

 

Fans are praising  Rafferty (24) and Fantenberg, who never skated on NHL ice until they were Rath at 23yrs has played 2 games and Fant at 29, played his first NHL game at 29.   Maybe they will become NHL players too!

Here is the thing, many top 5 picks in the 48 years have become massive busts.  Maybe being patient with them would have yielded a better result.  OJ would have been in the NHL last season had he not been hurt, and this would have all been moot point.  He very well may be a bust, who knows, but he is playing well as of late and is still very young.

 

  I am not a "cheerleader", I am a fan of the team who thinks that writing off a 21 year old kid who has had 2 injury riddled seasons is premature.

[aGENT]

22 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

He is only basing his adding Olli to the list is because he hasn't played a single NHL game; which is a bad indicator for a #5 overall pick.  

And given the missed development time due to injuries, he's basically in the same spot as a 20 year old D+3 player would be +/-. Maybe even younger than that given how long it takes to actually get back up to speed from such lengthy injuries.

 

If more people looked at him like that, I think there'd be a lot less panic around him.

 

His only real issue is the injuries/lost development time. The tools (player, the skills, the smarts etc) are all fine.

 

So long as he can stay healthy and DEVELOP, he'll be just fine.

Edited January 13, 2020 by aGENT

[Ballisticsports.]

I think by next year, we will have a better understanding of what we have in OJ

Arguments can both be made for success and failure

Even  stars in the AHL do not translate to NHL careers,  Marc-Andre Gragnani made his AHL debut at 20, putting up 52 points in 78 games. While he was an AHL star, winning the Eddie Shore Award in 2011 as the league’s best defenceman, he never quite established himself in the NHL. He played 78 NHL games, 14 of them for the Vancouver Canucks during the 2011-12 season, before heading to the KHL. or he could be another Sami Vatanen or Ville Pokka 2 players with similar stats again, one of which made it, one that didn't

Bob once said,  "The answer, my friend, is Blowin' in the Wind"  it's "impenetrably ambiguous: either the answer is so obvious it is right in your face, or the answer is as intangible as the wind"

He can still be either one of those success's or failures

He has his own destiny, and his health and his determination will dictate which he ends ups as.

His health will be tested in a much stronger, bigger, faster harder shots skilled league where injuries are more prone playing at top capacity

 

 I remember each level I took in hockey or motocross , baseball etc. was like comparing it to if I had always gone to the gym, and didn't for 6 months, and expected to be doing what I was 6 months earlier right away. The new level was so hard at 1st to keep up and belong (never mind excel), but soon after  I would get up to speed and pass that with determination and it would start all over again at the next level

I guess many kids nowadays could use than analogy on progressing to new levels on video games

 

I too remember being frustrated at what was happening (or not happening) with him

As I said in opening, that arguments can be made on both sides

One thing is for certain, he is neither of those players and we will soon find out which one of those careers he will be closer too

 

 

 

[Fred65]

Let me first of all say for the "n"th number of times I DO NOT WANT OJ to fail. I hope he has a great career.   Here's the BUT. so far he hasn't shown that in the game we can judge him by. He's here for at least a further 2 season. I judge him by what he does rather than what we'd like him to be. It's the old if quacks, waddles and swims chnaces are it's a duck. Other may wish to project, dream AND trot out excuses again  and again. Me … I'll go with the Duck theory 

[cyoung]

16 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Let me first of all say for the "n"th number of times I DO NOT WANT OJ to fail. I hope he has a great career.   Here's the BUT. so far he hasn't shown that in the game we can judge him by. He's here for at least a further 2 season. I judge him by what he does rather than what we'd like him to be. It's the old if quacks, waddles and swims chnaces are it's a duck. Other may wish to project, dream AND trot out excuses again  and again. Me … I'll go with the Duck theory 

So what's the duck telling you... I like the progress he's made considering the challenges he's faced, im excited to see how he finishes out the year.