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Olli Juolevi | D

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3 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Sure. If you think one NHL player and bunch of guys that are hopeful to maybe have an NHL career in 5 years of drafting proves that Benning is good at finding defensive talent then fine. Agree to disagree. 

 

But really I was more alluding to his overall ability than his drafting. We've seen him target some fairly garbage defenders over the years.

 

Anyway. Juolevi talk

 

 

Such as?

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5 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Sure. If you think one NHL player and bunch of guys that are hopeful to maybe have an NHL career in 5 years of drafting proves that Benning is good at finding defensive talent then fine. Agree to disagree. 

 

But really I was more alluding to his overall ability than his drafting. We've seen him target some fairly garbage defenders over the years.

 

Anyway. Juolevi talk

 

 

So, let me get this right. If Juolevi hadn't picked up two serious injuries since his draft season, you don't think he's an NHL defenseman?

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7 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Sure. If you think one NHL player

Two players, Hughes and Tryamkin who chose to leave the NHL for mother Russia.

honorable mention to Forsling with 122 games in the NHL so far.

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1 hour ago, rekker said:

Sorry but I don't see OJ replacing Eddy. Eddy is a phyiscal dman who in his prime could be trusted to go up against the other teams top lines and strong players. From what I've seen of OJ he is not engaged enough defensively to do this. He moves the puck real well and could replace what Eddy provided on the PP. I still hope OJ can improve his dzone engagement though as he is still young and working on his game. 

They are using him on the PK in Utica, and he's looking pretty good. A lot of his defensive miscues are due to him not being fully recovered and is getting his timing back. He has in my mind been getting better and better as each game passes down in Utica, which is a good sign. He may never be as physical as Edler, but if he can defend, keep the crease clear for the goalie, and be strong enough to win board battles he will fit the bill nicely. Laying guys out just isn't part of his game. At least from what I've seen so far.

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17 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

They are using him on the PK in Utica, and he's looking pretty good. A lot of his defensive miscues are due to him not being fully recovered and is getting his timing back. He has in my mind been getting better and better as each game passes down in Utica, which is a good sign. He may never be as physical as Edler, but if he can defend, keep the crease clear for the goalie, and be strong enough to win board battles he will fit the bill nicely. Laying guys out just isn't part of his game. At least from what I've seen so far.

Progression is good. Hoping for an injury free couple years so the young man can figure things out one way or another. 

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2 hours ago, johngould21 said:

So, let me get this right. If Juolevi hadn't picked up two serious injuries since his draft season, you don't think he's an NHL defenseman?

I don't think it's a guaranteed. People have short term memories around here and forget that red flags were going off with Juolevi's play in his D+1 in London. People forget him coming to camp and getting absolutely turnstyled and already showing some warning bells of his agility on his skates. 

 

I don't think it's 100% injuries that have caused Juolevi's problems with mobility and quickness as he was already showing some signs that it may be a problem before the injuries occured. I remember people using the excuse that he put on too much weight too quickly and he just needs to grow into his man size body. Now it's that he has had back and knee issues that are causing quickness and mobility issues. 

 

I've followed Juolevi closely since he was drafted and I'm not going to pretend it's all been roses and there hasn't been some warning signs right from the get go. 

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4 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

I don't think it's a guaranteed. People have short term memories around here and forget that red flags were going off with Juolevi's play in his D+1 in London. People forget him coming to camp and getting absolutely turnstyled and already showing some warning bells of his agility on his skates. 

 

I don't think it's 100% injuries that have caused Juolevi's problems with mobility and quickness as he was already showing some signs that it may be a problem before the injuries occured. I remember people using the excuse that he put on too much weight too quickly and he just needs to grow into his man size body. Now it's that he has had back and knee issues that are causing quickness and mobility issues. 

 

I've followed Juolevi closely since he was drafted and I'm not going to pretend it's all been roses and there hasn't been some warning signs right from the get go. 

This is an honest assessment and a good one IMHO. At this point I am expecting a bust but hoping I'm wrong. I hope the young man stays healthy and becomes a legit NHL dman. 

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4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yes this is true.  But you forgot to point out the reason why.  The reason why is because in 6 years of drafting Benning has had 7 1st round picks, and out of those 7 picks 5 have been forwards.  Also, in 6 years he has had 5 2nd round picks where he has selected an additional 3 forwards, 1 defenceman and 1 goalie.  So in total he has had 12 picks in the first two rounds, and 8 of those have been forwards and only 3 have been defencemen.  So obviously it is logical to see that more of his forwards have made the jump to the big club considering he has only drafted 3 defenceman in the first two rounds in the last 6 years while drafting 8 forwards.

 

And of those 3 defencemen drafted in the first 2 rounds, one is a complete stud, perhaps a Calder trophy winner and Norris trophy winner at some point, another one would be playing in the NHL right now if it weren't for his 2 serious injuries and the 3rd one is still playing in the CHL.  The reason the others aren't playing in the NHL is because all of the other Dmen Benning has drafted were later round picks that take years to develop.  However, out of those later picks 3 have actually already played in the NHL, Nikita Tryamkin, Gustav Forsling and Guillaume Brisebois.  Tryamkin would still be in the NHL today if he didn't leave and go to Russia.  

That's no guarantee. I just addressed this a post above. 

 

When I first made the point I was more alluding to his pro scouting and evaluation of defensive talent overall rather than just drafting. I'll agree he hasn't made enough draft picks of defenders to really decide either way and because quite a few are still developing. 

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4 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

That's no guarantee. I just addressed this a post above. 

 

When I first made the point I was more alluding to his pro scouting and evaluation of defensive talent overall rather than just drafting. I'll agree he hasn't made enough draft picks of defenders to really decide either way and because quite a few are still developing. 

Juolevi would be in the NHL today if not for the injuries.  C'mon you can't really believe otherwise can you?

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On 12/28/2019 at 1:19 PM, Fred65 said:

Some one once suggested to me that the difference between US Sports fan is they cheer to encourage while Canadians cheers to acknowledge an achievement. Well …… there has to be a lot of US fans on this site. I'm definitely in the Cdn pack. Show me some thing and I'll cheer but until that moment I prefer to be neutral. Basically that's difference IMO between the two positions being argued on the board. I don't think it's my job to cheerlead I think it's up to OJ to show us. The posters that come on here and give a game report, I'd like to thank

That's an odd generalization and as a Canadian I can tell you it makes no sense. I will always offer maximum support and always give these young men the benefit of developing at their own pace. Some of these kids can barely grow facial hair yet. You most certainly are not taking a neutral stance, you are increasingly coming to these prospect threads and leaving hot steaming turds wherever you go.

 

This thread is going to end up the same way the Virtanen thread did. It's going to end up over 1000 pages before he makes the NHL and has an impact in any substantial way. Meanwhile there will be people claiming that he will never live up to his draft position, and will critique every game and sometimes every shift to try to justify their position, while claiming to be "realists".

 

I'm more of a lurker in the prospects forum, because it's more time than I have to follow all these guys individually, so I do agree with your last sentence.

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30 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Juolevi would be in the NHL today if not for the injuries.  C'mon you can't really believe otherwise can you?

Yes you can. Its entirely possible he'd be in the NHL or its possible he'd still be developing in the AHL. Maybe have some call ups but I'm just not sold on Juolevi's foot speed being NHL caliber and I'm not sold that that's because of the injuries

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3 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Yes you can. Its entirely possible he'd be in the NHL or its possible he'd still be developing in the AHL. Maybe have some call ups but I'm just not sold on Juolevi's foot speed being NHL caliber and I'm not sold that that's because of the injuries

Well for sure he would have had some call ups at a minimum.  His foot speed was never an issue in Junior.  He's having issues now because of his knee and hip.  I'm sure if he can finish out the year strong and a good summer workout with a skating coach he could have a shot next year at the big club.  We will see.  His vision and hockey IQ are already at an NHL level.  Let's see if he can get that body to perform like his mind.

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5 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Quinn Hughes is the only defenseman on the roster that Benning has drafted. And please don't just list a bunch of prospects like that's proof that he's doing a good job of it. None of them are stud blue chip prospects. They are good but none are guaranteed NHL players.

 

I don't really have a beef. I was just pointing out that I think it's not an accurate statement to say that since Benning was a defender he knows a lot about what it takes to be a defender in the NHL and therefore he's good at finding NHL level defensive talent. Ironically he's been much better at finding talent for the forward lineup. I didn't think it would be that controversial of an opinion since it seems pretty obvious looking at the defenders that have come and gone. 

Considering it takes longer to develop Dmen, I would say Jim is doing something right in drafting Dmen.  I won't go on about examples, as you wanted, but even those in the know like Button on TSN, agree that our dman prospects are quite good.  Again, dmen take a longer time to develop so I think Jim is pretty on schedule.

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6 hours ago, dpn1 said:

Considering it takes longer to develop Dmen, I would say Jim is doing something right in drafting Dmen.  I won't go on about examples, as you wanted, but even those in the know like Button on TSN, agree that our dman prospects are quite good.  Again, dmen take a longer time to develop so I think Jim is pretty on schedule.

Not saying I don't believe you but do you have a source for this? I'm just interested.

 

Button is a bit of a dweeb but I tend to agree with him on a lot of things. :lol:

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13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Well for sure he would have had some call ups at a minimum.  His foot speed was never an issue in Junior.  He's having issues now because of his knee and hip.  I'm sure if he can finish out the year strong and a good summer workout with a skating coach he could have a shot next year at the big club.  We will see.  His vision and hockey IQ are already at an NHL level.  Let's see if he can get that body to perform like his mind.

It takes time to play into game shape.  OJ isn't a NHL regular needing to recover, he has to recover, catch up and improve his physical abilities this year.  That's alot to accomplish in one season.  

 

Given that he has managed to play in over 20 games, I expect that he has likely recovered fully, now he needs to catch up.  A lot of Gym time off the ice with core strength as a focus I hope.  Just send him to Hoglanders offseasons core strength training camp.  Always room for another juggler.  

 

I am most interested is seeming how OJ finishes this season vs starting it.  

 

If he can reach the 50g mark with no significant games lost, it's a win.  His offence is not in question, his IQ is excellent and he has been a good defender in other levels.  That should catch up as he gains in strength and stamina.  

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6 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Not saying I don't believe you but do you have a source for this? I'm just interested.

 

Button is a bit of a dweeb but I tend to agree with him on a lot of things. :lol:

He is on 1040 regularly and he discussed it sometime over the last few weeks.  I can't remember what day it was though. :)

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