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1 minute ago, dpn1 said:

Is Jack close to overtaking Ollie as a left hand Dman prospect?  He could be close by the end of next season or sooner possibly. 

He has atleast closed the gaps by a lot. The key for OJ is being healthy, once OJ is healthy, he can be a really smart and effective players who can be depend on the log a lot of minutes. For OJ, I would like to see him become that strong 2-way defenseman we have in Edler today. I would like to see Jack groom into a offensive defenseman who quaterback the 2nd unit PP in his prime.

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Juolevi is gonna be 22 in a couple of weeks.

 

I wonder if there are any comparable D men picked at the top of the 1st round that were touted to be top NHL d men yet never played an NHL game until they were 23.

 

Maybe if I get time later I will into it a bit.

 

Who knows what will happen at this point though.

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I’ve come to the realization that he will be a bust or bottom pairing PP specialist and that is very depressing. He hasn’t even looked dominate in any league other than a stacked London Knights and team Finland teams.

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If we were to trade Oli this year...I guaranty he will come back to bite us in the arse...Oli hasn't had a fully healthy season since junior and the injuries he has had to deal with have hurt his mobility...I think he only needs a good year of being healthy and working on his flexibility to get back on track and another year to be the top 4 guy we drafted....and maybe one more year to be a legit top 2...at the tender age of 24 or 25...which is when most D. men actually mature into a useful player.

 

I expect a useful player at the very least. 

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9 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

If we were to trade Oli this year...I guaranty he will come back to bite us in the arse...Oli hasn't had a fully healthy season since junior and the injuries he has had to deal with have hurt his mobility...I think he only needs a good year of being healthy and working on his flexibility to get back on track and another year to be the top 4 guy we drafted....and maybe one more year to be a legit top 2...at the tender age of 24 or 25...which is when most D. men actually mature into a useful player.

 

I expect a useful player at the very least. 

Even if we were to trade him, it should never be now. His value is very low atm, atleast let him play some games at the NHL level and get some evaluation before making any decisions.

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2 hours ago, KyGuy123 said:

I’ve come to the realization that he will be a bust or bottom pairing PP specialist and that is very depressing. He hasn’t even looked dominate in any league other than a stacked London Knights and team Finland teams.

Meanwhile our team continues pressing forward and improving. Perhaps he will step right end after we have stacked our team and give us that additional boost. Bigger picture is not depressing at all (aside from there being no hockey right now).

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6 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Juolevi is gonna be 22 in a couple of weeks.

 

I wonder if there are any comparable D men picked at the top of the 1st round that were touted to be top NHL d men yet never played an NHL game until they were 23.

 

Maybe if I get time later I will into it a bit.

 

Who knows what will happen at this point though.

Well if your talking top 10 of the draft the only one I find comparable since 2010 is Haydn Fleury 7th overall. He played in his age 21 season but didnt come into his own until this past season at 23. There is also Travis Sanheim 21 debut 22 first full season, Tony Deangelo 21 debut 23 breakout, Ryan Pulock 21 debut 23 breakout, but all of them are mid 1st round picks. I would still say they are comparable and would be happy if Juolevi turned into any of those. Huge year coming up for Juolevi, I would say make or break as far as development goes. I've always been a believer but if he doesn't play in the NHL next year my pessimism would skyrocket.

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8 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

If we were to trade Oli this year...I guaranty he will come back to bite us in the arse...Oli hasn't had a fully healthy season since junior and the injuries he has had to deal with have hurt his mobility...I think he only needs a good year of being healthy and working on his flexibility to get back on track and another year to be the top 4 guy we drafted....and maybe one more year to be a legit top 2...at the tender age of 24 or 25...which is when most D. men actually mature into a useful player.

 

I expect a useful player at the very least. 

Yeah ok...you also said he would be a top 4 D on the Canucks by last year.  

 

So yeah....haha. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, ohmy said:

Well if your talking top 10 of the draft the only one I find comparable since 2010 is Haydn Fleury 7th overall. He played in his age 21 season but didnt come into his own until this past season at 23. There is also Travis Sanheim 21 debut 22 first full season, Tony Deangelo 21 debut 23 breakout, Ryan Pulock 21 debut 23 breakout, but all of them are mid 1st round picks. I would still say they are comparable and would be happy if Juolevi turned into any of those. Huge year coming up for Juolevi, I would say make or break as far as development goes. I've always been a believer but if he doesn't play in the NHL next year my pessimism would skyrocket.

Thanks.  I agree mostly with your last sentence.  But for me, if he does not play in the NHL by Sept then I have little hope for this guy. 

 

We shall see..

 

Very disappointing so far for sure.

 

Edit: kind of funny that juolevi and Petey were both picked 5th overall.  Shows what a crap shoot it is. Thank god for Petey.  If he had been as developmentally delayed as OJ this club would suck right now lol.

Edited by Kanukfanatic
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On 4/7/2020 at 12:40 AM, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

But we really haven’t had a chance to see him fully healthy as a professional nor see him given the opportunity to really show his best qualities over any period of length in the pros.
 

Hopefully next year, he finally gets a chance to really show his abilities, and can force his way back into the conversation as an exciting young defenseman primed for a major role in this organization. It’s getting to be make or break time for Olli, but I’m still a believer.

 

As for Rathbone, I’m about as high on him as I’ve always been. I really believe he’s gonna be an excellent NHL player (hopefully for the Canucks).

The AHL is a professional league and Juolevi has had two seasons to prove himself. So far he has managed to prove that he is hurt a lot. That said, I’d love to see him play healthy - as he did in a solid season in the pro league in Finland, and in a solid world junior cup. But realistically, three or four prospects have moved ahead of him in my mind: Tryamkin, Rafferty, Rathbone, and Brisebois. I call Tryamkin a prospect because he hasn’t played for the Canucks for three years, but he played at a high level of pro comparable favourably with the AHL. Ideally, healthy, I still see Juolevi as a middle tier defender - if he can get fit.

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OJ has played very very well in Utica, why so down on him?

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

OJ has played very very well in Utica, why so down on him?

I still feel Juolevi  22, 6'3 will be a #3 D man in the NHL..We must remember he has injuries the last 3 seasons..Last season 2018 -2019 he only played 17 games with knee injury.. This season he missed 15 games and then Covid -19..

I feel Juolevi  will be very close to making lineup this October, for sure call ups..

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59 minutes ago, stawns said:

OJ has played very very well in Utica, why so down on him?

Why do you think he has played well, have you watched him? I’ve watched almost all of his games for the past two seasons. In my opinion, he has been outplayed by both Rafferty and Brisebois. His defensive play was better this year than last year, but his offence fell off.  I have also discussed the fact that he has not been fit now for two seasons, and off season medical treatment has affected his preparation now for three years in a row - making it difficult to decide if his level of fitness has prevented us from seeing the kid we saw in his first pro year in Finland and at the world junior, or if this is the new normal. I disagree that he has played very well in Utica, he has been adequate and adequate is not good enough for a team (the Canucks) that hopes to be a contender.  
 

If this long layoff grants him the opportunity to get healthier, stronger and more resilient - maybe we’ll have a player - I’d like to think so, but I don’t see anything exceptional so far in his defensive play and I don’t see him as an exceptional offensive player. He makes good outlet passes and sees the game fairly well.

 

Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong (or even better, if health and fitness are the issue) that he fulfill his once bright potential. He’s still young, and lots of defensive prospects take a few years to make the NHL.

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Just now, wildcam said:

I still feel Juolevi  22, 6'3 will be a #3 D man in the NHL..We must remember he has injuries the last 3 seasons..Last season 2018 -2019 he only played 17 games with knee injury.. This season he missed 15 games and then Covid -19..

I feel Juolevi  will be very close to making lineup this October, for sure call ups..

To make the Canucks, if we retain the current roster, he will have to displace someone. We will probably carry seven D again. If everyone re-signs it will be:

1: Hughes

2: Edler

3: Tanev

4: Myers

5: Stetcher

6: Fantenburg 

7: Benn

Rafferty

Tryamkin

Brisebois

Rathbone

 

Who on that list is he better than (if we retain them all)? Well, maybe Benn.  I watched both Juolevi and Fantenburg in Utica when Fantenburg was sent there to get healthy. Fantenburg was clearly better. I’ve watched Rafferty and Juolevi playing at the same time in Utica - Rafferty is way better. Brisebois is much better defensively (+21 vs -8) in similar roles - Juolevi had more points, but then he played second unit pp, Rafferty was the first unit guy). Tryamkin is certainly better. Rathbone is an unknown factor at a higher level - but watching how Rafferty adjusted, and Rathbone was probably better in college than Rafferty, one has to think he will likely do well. The player that Juolevi was this past year in Utica won’t make the Canucks - if he comes back fitter and stronger, then that would be great. If Benn is traded, Tanev and Stetcher are not re-signed, then we have a major problem, Green likes his D to play on their natural side. We would only have Myers, barring a trade does that put Rafferty on the team? Tryamkin and Rathbone have both played both sides. Where does that leave Juolevi if Fantenburg has outplayed him in Utica? Left D is Hughes, Edler, and Tryamkin? I don’t think it would be good for Juolevi to play as the seventh D - because of hi# injuries, he needs to play - that would mean Utica with maybe the odd call up. If we keep Stetcher and/or Tanev... it becomes even tougher.

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3 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Why do you think he has played well, have you watched him? I’ve watched almost all of his games for the past two seasons. In my opinion, he has been outplayed by both Rafferty and Brisebois. His defensive play was better this year than last year, but his offence fell off.  I have also discussed the fact that he has not been fit now for two seasons, and off season medical treatment has affected his preparation now for three years in a row - making it difficult to decide if his level of fitness has prevented us from seeing the kid we saw in his first pro year in Finland and at the world junior, or if this is the new normal. I disagree that he has played very well in Utica, he has been adequate and adequate is not good enough for a team (the Canucks) that hopes to be a contender.  
 

If this long layoff grants him the opportunity to get healthier, stronger and more resilient - maybe we’ll have a player - I’d like to think so, but I don’t see anything exceptional so far in his defensive play and I don’t see him as an exceptional offensive player. He makes good outlet passes and sees the game fairly well.

 

Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong (or even better, if health and fitness are the issue) that he fulfill his once bright potential. He’s still young, and lots of defensive prospects take a few years to make the NHL.

We'll both Rafferty and Brisebois have played a lot more hockey than OJ, so of course they'll outplay them........both Breezer and Rafferty are going to be solid NHL'ers.

 

I've watched plenty of OJ, he looks solid to me, I have no concerns outside of injuries 

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On 4/7/2020 at 5:40 PM, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I’d say in general, yes. When you look at the average projections people are putting on Rathbone, versus Juolevi, Jack has probably moved ahead of Olli. Lots of people see Rathbone as a future middle pair D who can run a power play. And at this point, quite a few people think we break even if we can just get a depth NHL player out of Juolevi.


Now personally, I haven’t soured on OJ as much as some, but I do see quite a few people with opinions I respect who say it’s maybe 50/50 at this point that Juolevi ever achieves any kind of career in the NHL. Whereas Rathbone is the prospect that Benning gets asked about the most by other GMs (as far as a trade target), and is generally viewed as a player on the rise who has a legitimate shot of being a very good young NHL player.

 

Of course, a lot can change once a player goes pro and actually gets tested at that level. Prospects are magic beans. It’s easy to get excited about potential.

 

It’s much less exciting to watch a player slowly pay his dues, make incremental progress, while finding his way back from some challenging injuries. Juolevi’s stock has taken a beating over recent years. But we really haven’t had a chance to see him fully healthy as a professional nor see him given the opportunity to really show his best qualities over any period of length in the pros.
 

Hopefully next year, he finally gets a chance to really show his abilities, and can force his way back into the conversation as an exciting young defenseman primed for a major role in this organization. It’s getting to be make or break time for Olli, but I’m still a believer.

 

As for Rathbone, I’m about as high on him as I’ve always been. I really believe he’s gonna be an excellent NHL player (hopefully for the Canucks).

Rafferty is faster, in agility & speed. Not sure he is as composed. Not that Juolevi is stout defensively? He looks better defensively to me.

 

Jack shoots better than both.

 

Guess we'll see? 

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I know the consensus among most in here figure OJ's days are numbered, but not me. Injuries aside, I truly believe he'll be a stud for us. A perfect compliment to our current D corp. Though I still think we need D depth if we're to succeed in any playoffs.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

To make the Canucks, if we retain the current roster, he will have to displace someone. We will probably carry seven D again. If everyone re-signs it will be:

1: Hughes

2: Edler

3: Tanev

4: Myers

5: Stetcher

6: Fantenburg 

7: Benn

Rafferty

Tryamkin

Brisebois

Rathbone

 

Who on that list is he better than (if we retain them all)? Well, maybe Benn.  I watched both Juolevi and Fantenburg in Utica when Fantenburg was sent there to get healthy. Fantenburg was clearly better. I’ve watched Rafferty and Juolevi playing at the same time in Utica - Rafferty is way better. Brisebois is much better defensively (+21 vs -8) in similar roles - Juolevi had more points, but then he played second unit pp, Rafferty was the first unit guy). Tryamkin is certainly better. Rathbone is an unknown factor at a higher level - but watching how Rafferty adjusted, and Rathbone was probably better in college than Rafferty, one has to think he will likely do well. The player that Juolevi was this past year in Utica won’t make the Canucks - if he comes back fitter and stronger, then that would be great. If Benn is traded, Tanev and Stetcher are not re-signed, then we have a major problem, Green likes his D to play on their natural side. We would only have Myers, barring a trade does that put Rafferty on the team? Tryamkin and Rathbone have both played both sides. Where does that leave Juolevi if Fantenburg has outplayed him in Utica? Left D is Hughes, Edler, and Tryamkin? I don’t think it would be good for Juolevi to play as the seventh D - because of hi# injuries, he needs to play - that would mean Utica with maybe the odd call up. If we keep Stetcher and/or Tanev... it becomes even tougher.

Hello, Like your post you must live in Utica? people still have to remember injuries have really slowed his development the last 3 years..

Only played 17 games last season? Hurt again this season and then Covid -19 -- 

You have Tryamkin  in Vancouver next season??? Not sure that will happen? 

Tanev 30 UFA this summer will want at least 4.5 million x 4 years? He is very valuable but always hurt, need to move away from Tanev.

I would like to see Jim trade for a top end D man, solid guy under 27 plays a complete game and would fit with Hughes and both guys log 21 -23 mins..

Hope Edler 34 years old is a big part of the D core and avg 23 mins per game.

Stetcher - RFA will want at least 2.8 million x 4 yrs ? I think Rafferty could fill his 15 - 17 mins per game # 5 spot.and only $750,000....

To get a top end D man will have to trade a top 4 forward...Boser possible if Taffoli is signed,,,,

 

We will not have extra money to go sign a top end D man in fee agency ...

Lots of players to sign, Markstrom, Virtanen, Taffoli, Motte, MacEwen, Lievo ( Tanev ??) ( Stetcher ? )

Could also be a cap buyout and that would really help signing players?Even 2 buyouts,  No Erickson and  his 6 million against the cap. Luongo 3 mil x 3 yrs? 

Going to be a very interesting and exciting summer..

Edited by wildcam

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20 minutes ago, NexusRift said:

I know the consensus among most in here figure OJ's days are numbered, but not me. Injuries aside, I truly believe he'll be a stud for us. A perfect compliment to our current D corp. Though I still think we need D depth if we're to succeed in any playoffs.

As do I, top 3 dman

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