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2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017


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8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I'd still trade down myself but wouldn't have an issue taking him and parking him in Utica for 2 or 3 years

2 or 3 years? 

 

Nah, I think he makes the team tbh. Or maybe a year in the minors. Definitely not 2+ years.

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I actually really like Necas and do prefer him over Middlestaedt, and possibly Vilardi too. Necas is tenacious and has tremendous speed. Plays like Giroux kind off, and is also playing against grown men already. There's lot to like about him. He's the type of player you need in the playoffs. 

 

Middlestaedt of course has sick mitts and whatnot, but I really am skeptical about his dedication if he was drafted by the Canucks. He's refrained from playing at the next level already, and I feel as if he would leave us through FA to return to Minnesota LOL. His defensive game definitely needs work but he obviously is very good offensively...so were Ryan Strome, Burmistrov, Filatov, etc...

 

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53 minutes ago, Odd. said:

2 or 3 years? 

 

Nah, I think he makes the team tbh. Or maybe a year in the minors. Definitely not 2+ years.

Literally 0 rush to throw him or Juolevi in to the line up.  With our timeline for a rebuild and what this tire fire will look like next year best to let Hischier start in the AHL building chemistry with Virtanen etc instead of Oilering him in to the line up 1 or 2 years too early.

 

Hischier has the ability to go directly to the AHL post draft....use it

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52 minutes ago, .Naslund said:

I actually really like Necas and do prefer him over Middlestaedt, and possibly Vilardi too. Necas is tenacious and has tremendous speed. Plays like Giroux kind off, and is also playing against grown men already. There's lot to like about him. He's the type of player you need in the playoffs. 

 

Image result for preach brother meme

 

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1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

2-Way F:

Patrick

Necas

Lots of inked out names

 

Offensive F:
Hischier

______

Mittlestadt

_______

Vilardi

________

________

 

OFD:

Liljegren

_______

 

Going off these supposed lists, could it be Tolvanen that he is referring to as the #2 offensive forward? He talks about Dahlen, Goldobin, Boeser, and Baertschi, he then says that "this player is also not a centre." He also says that the #2 offensive forward plays in the same league as Mittelstadt and that he has 80% of his points at even strength. Also, he says that most Canucks fans would rather have the #1 and #2 ranked offensive defensemen than the #2 offensive forward.

 

Tolvanen is a winger and of his 53 points in the USHL (also a league that Mittelstadt played in this year) 12 of them came from the powerplay. So roughly 80% of his points came even strength. 

 

Moreover, he also said that the only way they pick up the #1 offensive defenseman is if the the other centremen the Canucks want is gone, and that after Necas is the #3 and #4 ranked two-way forward

 

Putting it all together, the supposed list might look like...

 

2-Way F:

Patrick

Necas

_________

_________

 

Offensive F

Hischier

Tolvanen

Mittelstadt

_________

Vilardi

 

OFD

Liljegren

Makar/Valimaki (most likely Makar)

 

So, going in reverse...

11. Vilardi

10. #4 Offensive F

9. Mittelstadt

8. Tolvanen

7. Makar

6. Liljegren

5. #4 2-Way F (Glass/Pettersson???)

4. #3 2-Way F (Glass/Pettersson???)

3. Martin Necas

2. Nico Hischier

1. Nolan Patrick

 

So the question becomes, who could possibly be the #3 2-Way F, the #4 2-way F, and the #4 Offensive F?

 

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Im just thinking of how many times Salo helped us out on the PP with his big bomb of a shot. Also having Kesler blocking the goalie and causing havoc on the PP while the Sedins worked their magic and a puck moving D man in Ehrhoff.  That team was really successful at winning. 

 

We need a big shot to rely on. I can't stand seeing Sbisa getting grade A chances. Juolevi doesn't have a big shot. 

 

Nicolaus Hague has a big shot from the point and could replace Sbisa. 

 

Hopefully we draft Vilardi with our first and either the Sharks win and we go for Hague or we trade and get another first. 

 

Beartchi Horvat Boesser 

Goldobin Vilardi Granlund 

Dahlen Gaudette Virtanen

McEwan Chaput Lockwood  

 

Hague  Stetcher 

Juolevi Tyramkin

Hutton Gudbranson 

 

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51 minutes ago, kenhodgejr said:

Im just thinking of how many times Salo helped us out on the PP with his big bomb of a shot. Also having Kesler blocking the goalie and causing havoc on the PP while the Sedins worked their magic and a puck moving D man in Ehrhoff.  That team was really successful at winning. 

 

We need a big shot to rely on. I can't stand seeing Sbisa getting grade A chances. Juolevi doesn't have a big shot. 

 

Nicolaus Hague has a big shot from the point and could replace Sbisa. 

 

Hopefully we draft Vilardi with our first and either the Sharks win and we go for Hague or we trade and get another first. 

 

Beartchi Horvat Boesser 

Goldobin Vilardi Granlund 

Dahlen Gaudette Virtanen

McEwan Chaput Lockwood  

 

Hague  Stetcher 

Juolevi Tyramkin

Hutton Gudbranson 

 

If Gudbranson is bottom pairing. He better be paid that way. Makes no sense for him to be getting paid $4 million to be a bottom pairing guy. 

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Curious what people think about Jason Robertson?

 

Especially anyone who's watched him a fair amount this year.

 

Is he just underrated (as far as the rankings go)?

 

I know he's got the "heavy boots" tag on him regarding his skating. But is it really that much of a knock? Seems to have fairly good speed once he gets moving. Just some acceleration issues and clunkiness to his stride from what I can tell. Which are issues you'd think are fairly fixable, especially in a 17-year-old with his size and who's still growing.

 

Hard to understand why he's ranking in the 30-50 range. Seems like he should be a top-20 (or maybe higher) in this draft class.

 

Here's a good recent article: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thebloggerstribune.com/2017/03/30/2017-nhl-entry-draft-profile-the-curious-case-of-jason-robertson/amp/

 

From what I'm seeing, we should be all over this kid if the rankings hold true and he's available in the 2nd round. Unless I'm missing something? And admittedly, I haven't watched as much hockey this season as in previous years so I'm mostly going off what I've read on this player.

 

Would be interested in opinions from people who have seen him play a lot this season.

Edited by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME
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7 hours ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said:

Is it realistic to expect Patrick to be on a Draisatl level in the bigs.

 

I remember the knock on LD being his foot speed and compared to Kopitar but was around the 100 pts mark in the whl at 17 like Patrick.

I think so.  Theyre different players though.  Drai is a playmaker first and foremost.  Patrick is more of a sniper, but I wouldnt always say that shooting is his first option.  I think thats what I like most about Patrick.  hes such a solid all around player.  He has soft hands like Drai and can make buttery saucers, but can snipe.  Good skater, more aggressive than Drai, and better defensively imo.   Bill Watters believes he will become very much like Johnathan Toews.  Team leader,  good at everything.  Craig Button compares his skill set to Eric Staal.  Id have to agree with both comparisons.  He wont blow you away with exciting plays, but hell produce in a number of ways and contribute even when hes not on the score sheet.  

 

My personal player comparison for Nolan Patrick is Trevor Linden.  A consistent 35 G 35 A  threat that has leadership qualities, a big frame, and a well rounded set of attributes.  

 

His addition to this team would be franchise altering imo.

Edited by 70seven
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1 minute ago, 70seven said:

I think so.  Their slightly different players though.  Drai is a playmaker first and foremost.  Patrick is more of a sniper, but I wouldnt always say that shooting is his first option.  I think thats what I like most about Patrick.  hes such a solid all around player.  He has soft hands like Drai and can make buttery saucers, but can snipe.  Good skater, more aggressive than Drai, and better defensively imo.   Bill Watters believes he will become very much like Johnathan Toews.  Team leader,  good at everything.  Craig Button compares his skill set to Eric Staal.  Id have to agree with both comparisons.  He wont blow you away with exciting plays, but hell produce in a number of ways and contribute even when hes not on the score sheet.  

 

My personal player comparison for Nolan Patrick is Trevor Linden.  A consistent 35 G 35 A  threat that has leadership qualities and a well rounded set of attributes.

Sounds like alot of what we need. Unfortunately his injury woes scare me. If we have the number 2-8th pick and he's there I take him.

 

If we have the number 1 pick I take Hischier. Just my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Sounds like alot of what we need. Unfortunately his injury woes scare me. If we have the number 2-8th pick and he's there I take him.

 

If we have the number 1 pick I take Hischier. Just my opinion.

What is Patrick's full injury history? I know he has never finished a complete season. Is it only the tweaky groin or is there more?

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Just now, Scruffy05 said:

What is Patrick's full injury history? I know he has never finished a complete season. Is it only the tweaky groin or is there more?

No idea. But I can tell you he doest play alot. Brandon needed him this playoffs. He didn't play a single game. Could be why happens to whatever team drafts him. I know he's had history with hernias 

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Just now, 73 Percent said:

Sounds like alot of what we need. Unfortunately his injury woes scare me. If we have the number 2-8th pick and he's there I take him.

 

If we have the number 1 pick I take Hischier. Just my opinion.

I like Hischier too, there is definitely an argument for him to go 1st.  I just think Patrick is a bit of a sleeper because he missed most of the year.  I read an article of teams passing on Galchenyuk because of similar reasons.  High skilled "Bure like" Yakupov then went 1st, and another talented fun to watch Grigerenko went 3rd because of  Galchenyuks injury uncertainty.  

 

Patrick was only 4 days removed from being in last years draft.  From what I understand, scouts saw enough of him last year and through the playoffs, (where he was crowned playoff MVP) to feel justified in believing in his ability, and it sounds like most scouts still have him #1.

 

Injury has definitely opened the door a crack to Hischier who wasnt in projected top 10 prospects a the start of the year.  He IS a player thatll get fans out of their seat, but I still think that Patrick will be the better overall player, and safer bet to be an effective NHL player much sooner.

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22 minutes ago, Scruffy05 said:

What is Patrick's full injury history? I know he has never finished a complete season. Is it only the tweaky groin or is there more?

During the 2015–16 season, Patrick finished fifth in league scoring and was the first 17-year old Wheat King to score over 100 points since 1976-77.[13] He played an integral part in winning the Ed Chynoweth Cup, leading all players in post-season points and was named the WHL Playoff MVP.[14] After the season, it was revealed that Patrick had suffered a sports hernia injury on April 27, 2016 during Game 4 of the WHL's Eastern Conference Final series against the Red Deer Rebels and had played through the WHL Finals and 2016 Memorial Cup with the injury.[15]Following the 2015-16 campaign, he received sports hernia surgery.[15]

 

 

For whatever reason, there were complications and it didnt heal properly.  Thats what kept him out for most of the year.  So, realistically ONE injury with healing complications.  

 

Treatment

Surgical repair is the definitive treatment for Sports hernia, and has a reported satisfaction rate of more than 90% [1,3,5]. However, as some cases of supra-inguinal pain conceivably relate to a potentially reversible condition of conjoint ‘tendonitis’, initial management is preferably conservative with a 3 – 6 months trial of physical therapy targeted to core strength and pelvic stability. If there is no improvement, the surgical options are either (1) repair of the conjoint tendon and posterior inguinal wall using an open technique that avoids mesh [10], or (2) a laparoscopic inguinal hernia repair that utilises bilateral mesh which importantly overlaps in the midline to effectively brace the symphysis pubis [11]. If the clinical presentation includes a component of chronic adductor longus origin ‘tendonitis’, many surgeons will also perform an adductor tenotomy at the same time. Tenotomy can assist with pain relief by de-tensioning the affected (predominantly superficial) fibres of adductor longus but, in the author’s view, may be counterproductive in the longer term if this exacerbates any underlying pubic dysfunction or instability by further weakening the normal dynamic cross-brace mechanism that stabilises the symphysis pubis. Surgery is followed by an additional 3 months post-operative physiotherapy.

 

Every general practitioner analysis Ive read is that this injury has a very unpredictable time line for healing.

  

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30 minutes ago, 70seven said:

I like Hischier too, there is definitely an argument for him to go 1st.  I just think Patrick is a bit of a sleeper because he missed most of the year.  I read an article of teams passing on Galchenyuk because of similar reasons.  High skilled "Bure like" Yakupov then went 1st, and another talented fun to watch Grigerenko went 3rd because of  Galchenyuks injury uncertainty.  

 

Patrick was only 4 days removed from being in last years draft.  From what I understand, scouts saw enough of him last year and through the playoffs, (where he was crowned playoff MVP) to feel justified in believing in his ability, and it sounds like most scouts still have him #1.

 

Injury has definitely opened the door a crack to Hischier who wasnt in projected top 10 prospects a the start of the year.  He IS a player thatll get fans out of their seat, but I still think that Patrick will be the better overall player, and safer bet to be an effective NHL player much sooner.

I get the point you're making but Grigerenko went 12th.   

 

Yak

Murray

Galchenyak

G.Reihart (bust)

Reilly

Lindholm

Dumba

Pouliot

Trouba

Koekkoek

Forsberg

Grigorenko

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26 minutes ago, 70seven said:

During the 2015–16 season, Patrick finished fifth in league scoring and was the first 17-year old Wheat King to score over 100 points since 1976-77.[13] He played an integral part in winning the Ed Chynoweth Cup, leading all players in post-season points and was named the WHL Playoff MVP.[14] After the season, it was revealed that Patrick had suffered a sports hernia injury on April 27, 2016 during Game 4 of the WHL's Eastern Conference Final series against the Red Deer Rebels and had played through the WHL Finals and 2016 Memorial Cup with the injury.[15]Following the 2015-16 campaign, he received sports hernia surgery.[15]

 

 

For whatever reason, there were complications and it didnt heal properly.  Thats what kept him out for most of the year.  So, realistically ONE injury with healing complications.  

 

Treatment

Surgical repair is the definitive treatment for Sports hernia, and has a reported satisfaction rate of more than 90% [1,3,5]. However, as some cases of supra-inguinal pain conceivably relate to a potentially reversible condition of conjoint ‘tendonitis’, initial management is preferably conservative with a 3 – 6 months trial of physical therapy targeted to core strength and pelvic stability. If there is no improvement, the surgical options are either (1) repair of the conjoint tendon and posterior inguinal wall using an open technique that avoids mesh [10], or (2) a laparoscopic inguinal hernia repair that utilises bilateral mesh which importantly overlaps in the midline to effectively brace the symphysis pubis [11]. If the clinical presentation includes a component of chronic adductor longus origin ‘tendonitis’, many surgeons will also perform an adductor tenotomy at the same time. Tenotomy can assist with pain relief by de-tensioning the affected (predominantly superficial) fibres of adductor longus but, in the author’s view, may be counterproductive in the longer term if this exacerbates any underlying pubic dysfunction or instability by further weakening the normal dynamic cross-brace mechanism that stabilises the symphysis pubis. Surgery is followed by an additional 3 months post-operative physiotherapy.

 

Every general practitioner analysis Ive read is that this injury has a very unpredictable time line for healing.

  

That actually makes me a lot less concerned, considering his injury woes are his only real knock.

 

Can Patrick jump right in next year? He is slightly older.

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6 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Curious what people think about Jason Robertson?

 

Especially anyone who's watched him a fair amount this year.

 

Is he just underrated (as far as the rankings go)?

 

I know he's got the "heavy boots" tag on him regarding his skating. But is it really that much of a knock? Seems to have fairly good speed once he gets moving. Just some acceleration issues and clunkiness to his stride from what I can tell. Which are issues you'd think are fairly fixable, especially in a 17-year-old with his size and who's still growing.

 

Hard to understand why he's ranking in the 30-50 range. Seems like he should be a top-20 (or maybe higher) in this draft class.

 

Here's a good recent article: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thebloggerstribune.com/2017/03/30/2017-nhl-entry-draft-profile-the-curious-case-of-jason-robertson/amp/

 

From what I'm seeing, we should be all over this kid if the rankings hold true and he's available in the 2nd round. Unless I'm missing something? And admittedly, I haven't watched as much hockey this season as in previous years so I'm mostly going off what I've read on this player.

 

Would be interested in opinions from people who have seen him play a lot this season.

Think Michael Dal Colle with a higher compete, but a little slower, and not quite as good of hands in terms of style. The shot generation and scoring contributions he has made for his team and in the playoffs are elite though for draft eligible players.

Easy pick at 33-36 for me if he's there. One of those picks where if he can improve his skating, then you actually have a top end prospect. If not then maybe he is just an AHL top 6 guy. Speed is so key in the NHL today. Also young.

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1 hour ago, Scruffy05 said:

What is Patrick's full injury history? I know he has never finished a complete season. Is it only the tweaky groin or is there more?

It is actually a shade more significant than that.

59 minutes ago, 70seven said:

During the 2015–16 season, Patrick finished fifth in league scoring and was the first 17-year old Wheat King to score over 100 points since 1976-77.[13] He played an integral part in winning the Ed Chynoweth Cup, leading all players in post-season points and was named the WHL Playoff MVP.[14] After the season, it was revealed that Patrick had suffered a sports hernia injury on April 27, 2016 during Game 4 of the WHL's Eastern Conference Final series against the Red Deer Rebels and had played through the WHL Finals and 2016 Memorial Cup with the injury.[15]Following the 2015-16 campaign, he received sports hernia surgery.[15]

 

 

For whatever reason, there were complications and it didnt heal properly.  Thats what kept him out for most of the year.  So, realistically ONE injury with healing complications.  

 

Treatment

Surgical repair is the definitive treatment for Sports hernia, and has a reported satisfaction rate of more than 90% [1,3,5]. However, as some cases of supra-inguinal pain conceivably relate to a potentially reversible condition of conjoint ‘tendonitis’, initial management is preferably conservative with a 3 – 6 months trial of physical therapy targeted to core strength and pelvic stability. If there is no improvement, the surgical options are either (1) repair of the conjoint tendon and posterior inguinal wall using an open technique that avoids mesh [10], or (2) a laparoscopic inguinal hernia repair that utilises bilateral mesh which importantly overlaps in the midline to effectively brace the symphysis pubis [11]. If the clinical presentation includes a component of chronic adductor longus origin ‘tendonitis’, many surgeons will also perform an adductor tenotomy at the same time. Tenotomy can assist with pain relief by de-tensioning the affected (predominantly superficial) fibres of adductor longus but, in the author’s view, may be counterproductive in the longer term if this exacerbates any underlying pubic dysfunction or instability by further weakening the normal dynamic cross-brace mechanism that stabilises the symphysis pubis. Surgery is followed by an additional 3 months post-operative physiotherapy.

 

Every general practitioner analysis Ive read is that this injury has a very unpredictable time line for healing.

  

That is only this year.  Here is a more detailed breakdown

 

30 minutes ago, Scruffy05 said:

That actually makes me a lot less concerned, considering his injury woes are his only real knock.

 

Can Patrick jump right in next year? He is slightly older.

Patrick has the body type to jump right in to the NHL.  I have actually spoken to his uncle on a few occasionas who was very open about him.  He is open to going to Europe for a season should his drafting team feel he is not NHL ready the same way Matthews did as he feels the CHL is not a league in which he can develop his game any further.

 

But....I just do not like the guy as a 1st overall pick.  He screams mistake via injuries and for what the Canuck as a team need moving forward.  For what he brings to the table I firmly believe we can get that out of Vilardi/Mittlestadt with a year or two of additional development.

 

Which is why I have been such a strong proponent of trading the 1st overall down to 4th or 5th to ensure we get the player we need plus more.

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