2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

I swear I hope the servers for CDC are good for the capacity and possible disgruntled fans for tomorrow 

 

To be honest for years after almost every single playoffs, Stanley Cup Winning team, or popular drafting team we have tried to copy their mold.  The Boston/Kings Model (Tough and heavy), the Detroit Model (Patience with prospects), Pittsburgh model (skill and speed), Nashville model (Draft many high end Dman).  It is an endless cycle that the NHL falls into a copy cat mode and the Canucks have been guilty of that.

 

I hope that they start forging their own identity and start drafting not on what other teams have done but what is best for us.  Don't really care who we take, at this point.  Just please start hitting home runs on some good players.

[Beary Sweet]

5 minutes ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said:

Ok so Benning likes Glass, Pettersson or Vilardi at 5? I'll be so happy with any one of them!!

Ditto. This. Benning and his scouts knows way more about the kids in this draft than me or most here but lots of people on here know who most the players are in terms of how they play, their qualities, and NHL projections. I prefer we go BPA and most likely our targets will all be available. Hopefully he considers Mittelstadt, Necas as well as I really think they'll have great NHL careers. Just my instinct 

[ashlynnbrookefan]

2 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Every GM inherits something.  Gillis took what he was 'handed' and ran with it.  He did an incredible job subsidizing the Sedin's and Kesler.  

Yeah I'll give you that he did a decent job keeping the team he was given together but that's the easiest part of the job, finding and getting the talent isn't nearly as easy. I don't think he deserves props and have no issue with the shots that are thrown his way. 

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, Screw said:

Of the 23 first round picks made from 1986 to 2010 in the pre-Horvat era.  ( not counting bourdon in this and cutting it off at Guance in 2011 because we are still waiting to see)    The Canucks selected 11 players that went on to have regular NHL careers: Linden, Nedved, Ohlund, Ference, Allan D. Sedin, H. Sedin, Umberger, Kesler, Schnieder, & Grabner.  That is about 47% You can see it is well below the Average success rate you quoted.   With regards to the bolded section of your post:  I would call that a professional scouting and development staff.

It's Gaunce.

 

And the thing is, you have to also consider where in the first round we've picked.   In the past oh, 40 years or so we've had a handful of top five picks.   So sure, first rounders....but since 2000 we've averaged a first rounder at the 18-19 slot.  So keep that in mind too.

 

So first rounder doesn't mean a top pick.  And, with some of the drafts, it was slim pickings. 

 

Sure, we missed out on a few good ones, but what team hasn't got those stories to tell?

 

[theo5789]

15 minutes ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

I know for a fact that Gillis gave his scouting team full autonomy on whom they decided to draft. Whether Gillis decided to involve himself or not is another story. Benning takes more ownership in drafting obviously due to his heavy background. He works closely alongside his staff to determine the best fit. Just. 2 different styles that's all. 

I agree it's different styles, but my point is that even if Gillis had no part in the scouting of draft picks, he does/should have the final say as the GM. The scouts can be blamed for any terrible picks, but just because he pulled himself out of the process does not take out the blame from him. The role of a GM is to overlook it all and the draft is a part of it (an important one if you ask me). Perhaps his lack of desire and focus for the scouting process led to the lower quality of talent we drafted.

[guntrix]

2 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

SUCCESS RATE OF FIRST-ROUND DRAFT PICKS

Between 1990 and 1999, there were 2,600 names called at the NHL Entry Draft.

As of 2007, 494 of those players have appeared in at least 200 NHL games. That's a success rate of 19 percent.

But of course, not all draft picks are created equal. The guys picked in the first round are a cut above the rest:

• Of the 494 career players drafted in the 1990s, 160 were selected in the first round.
• Of those 160 career players, over half have played more than 500 NHL games.
• Among the older players (those drafted from 1990 to 1994), six first-round picks have made it to 1,000 games. Another couple of dozen are still active and within reach of 1,000.
• Based on the 1990s sample, a first-round draft pick has a 63 percent chance of being a career player.

 

So many are "whiffs"/swings and misses.  It's a crapshoot and just as you feel that Makar or Glass should be...they may or may not be.  So having the luxury of hindsight isn't something afford to teams when they draft.  You do your research, compile information and then take a chance.

 

The topic is the draft, not "why Canucks fans react as they do".  With that, you are but one fan and don't speak for everyone.

I am a long suffering Canuck fan, but I recognize the difficulty in this stuff.  That it's often a roll of the dice and you make decisions NOT ONLY on what you need in a current situation, but on future and projected need.  Some of it pans out, some of it doesn't.  With that, sure...we haven't had the best history.  But as one of those long suffering fans, I don't suffer needlessly...like before a draft has even happened, in grumbling about an outcome that we don't even know yet.

 

Well that's all we have...is an "I think" in all of this.  Not sure why you feel the GM's hold the key to more?  Some special power that makes or breaks it.  They go on what they know, as well as what they need.  And then the rest is up to fate and the player involved in how it pans out.

63% are actually very decent odds... by definition, that percentage is not a crapshoot. Add that onto the fact that a top 5 pick probably has a much higher probability of being a success than 63%. I mean, it's not like we're picking 30th. 

 

I acknowledge that Benning in no way holds a crystal ball but if our first round drafting reflects the Sabres' first round draft record when Benning was chief scout, we're in trouble. 

[smithers joe]

22 minutes ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

So after you pick a player it's all a guessing game? That's absurd. Does everyone turn out like you'd hope? Absolutely not but to call it a guessing game isn't right. If players don't reach their potential for the reasons you listed then it was poor scouting and drafting. There's a reason they put so much money and effort into scouting, and it's not so they can play the guessing game, it's so they can make the best pick of their ability, part of that is projecting where that player will be when fully mature. It's certainly not a crapshoot at any stage at that level, you make educated moves with the hope your information and scouting is on point

i for one believed that hodgeson was going to be a beast after the memorial cup, but he turned out just be a whinny kid that couldn't play that level in the nhl.

there have been many juniors that have looked like world beaters when they were drafted but never reached a level of play that could dominate in the nhl. every team has those players in their systems. i believe deb is right in her assessment. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by smithers joe

[ashlynnbrookefan]

1 minute ago, smithers joe said:

i for one believed that hodgeson was going to be a beast after the memorial cup, but he turned out just be a whinny kid that couldn't play that level in the nhl.

there have been many juniors that have looked like world beaters when they were drafted but never reached a level of play that could dominate in the nhl. every team has those players those players in their systems. i believe deb is right in her assessment. 

I thought Hodgson would be a stud too. But he had a ton of issues with coaches, his dad was too involved. If management did a good job of scouting and dissecting the player beforehand maybe they realize he has potential issues and avoid that player 

[flickyoursedin]

26 minutes ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said:

Ok so Benning likes Glass, Pettersson or Vilardi at 5? I'll be so happy with any one of them!!

As would I! However the way he talks about Makar makes me think he likes him a shade above the other guys you've mentioned.

[Screw]

Just now, debluvscanucks said:

It's Gaunce.

 

And the thing is, you have to also consider where in the first round we've picked.   In the past oh, 40 years or so we've had a handful of top five picks.   So sure, first rounders....but since 2000 we've averaged a first rounder at the 18-19 slot.  So keep that in mind too.

 

So first rounder doesn't mean a top pick.  And, with some of the drafts, it was slim pickings. 

 

Sure, we missed out on a few good ones, but what team hasn't got those stories to tell?

 

True, every team has these tales.  Vancouver has more than many. Thus bringing us full circle to why some fans, not all Deb, are jaded.

[smithers joe]

1 minute ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

I thought Hodgson would be a stud too. But he had a ton of issues with coaches, his dad was too involved. If management did a good job of scouting and dissecting the player beforehand maybe they realize he has potential issues and avoid that player 

doug wickenheiser was an excellent junior player. montreal had a choice but chose doug because he was that big power forward and centerman they coveted. he never became that player. it is easy to look back in hindsight and say they should have taken denis savard but to say teams should know exactly how a player is going to turn out in 4 years is not always evident in foresight. that is when it becomes a crap shoot.

[ashlynnbrookefan]

1 minute ago, smithers joe said:

doug wickenheiser was an excellent junior player. montreal had a choice but chose doug because he was that big power forward and centerman they coveted. he never became that player. it is easy to look back in hindsight and say they should have taken denis savard but to say teams should know exactly how a player is going to turn out in 4 years is not always evident in foresight. that is when it becomes a crap shoot.

Of course not everyone has a crystal ball but a mistake like that should be put on management and scouting. The year we got the sedins the rest of those top 10 picks are pretty awful for the most part. At least one year tilted in our favor haha. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

Of course not everyone has a crystal ball but a mistake like that should be put on management and scouting. The year we got the sedins the rest of those top 10 picks are pretty awful for the most part. At least one year tilted in our favor haha. 

To get both Twins Burke had to take a huge risk and trade away Brian McCabe, who was a young, tough, and talented Dman.  We need JB to 'gut up' and make the Tanev move.

[smithers joe]

3 minutes ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

Of course not everyone has a crystal ball but a mistake like that should be put on management and scouting. The year we got the sedins the rest of those top 10 picks are pretty awful for the most part. At least one year tilted in our favor haha. 

so, your saying if we draft glass this year and he turns out to be a bust, it's benning and the scouts fault, that they didn't have the foresight to know this.?

[ashlynnbrookefan]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

To get both Twins Burke had to take a huge risk and trade away Brian McCabe, who was a young, tough, and talented Dman.  We need JB to 'gut up' and make the Tanev move.

Couldn't agree more. Doesn't have to be to Dallas either. A mid round first and a prospect will be plenty for me and just what this team needs moving forward 

[ashlynnbrookefan]

Just now, smithers joe said:

so, your saying if we draft glass this year and he turns out to be a bust, it's benning and the scouts fault, that they didn't have the foresight to know this.?

I'm saying if we draft Glass and he turns out to be a busy it absolutely is on management and scouting, they wouldn't have done a good enough job. Especially if someone taken within a few spots of him turns out to be a stud. It would absolutely amplify it as it should 

[smithers joe]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

To get both Twins Burke had to take a huge risk and trade away Brian McCabe, who was a young, tough, and talented Dman.  We need JB to 'gut up' and make the Tanev move.

dallas liked tanev but his injury issues turned them away, plus they wanted more from the canucks, like their 5th pick. benning said that they wouldn't give tanev up unless they got a return that made sense. no way should he make a trade that doesn't make sense to them.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

Couldn't agree more. Doesn't have to be to Dallas either. A mid round first and a prospect will be plenty for me and just what this team needs moving forward 

Agreed.  We need to stay committed to a rebuild.

[Fan since 82]

Question about Makar....is he eligible to play in the AHL next year? He didn't play in one of the more traditional leagues last year so wondering if perhaps he can go directly to the AHL like a European can?

[Pears]

Just now, Fan since 82 said:

Question about Makar....is he eligible to play in the AHL next year? He didn't play in one of the more traditional leagues last year so wondering if perhaps he can go directly to the AHL like a European can?

Nope. He's going to college next season.