Tank Nation back in force with Nolan Patrick as the target?

[wai_lai416]

22 hours ago, Winter Soldier said:

So? All the skill in the world will not make up for the fact that morale is rock bottom or the fact that no one in the room has heart. 

not really.. a lot of their new core is not part of that losing forever culture.. McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Pulljarvi, Talbot.. and it's obvious they will move out 1 or 2 of hall erbele nuge and for sure yak.. a significant part of their losing culture.. McDavid have no heart? really?

[Winter Soldier]

Just now, wai_lai416 said:

not really.. a lot of their new core is not part of that losing forever culture.. McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Pulljarvi, Talbot.. and it's obvious they will move out 1 or 2 of hall erbele nuge and for sure yak.. a significant part of their losing culture.. McDavid have no heart? really?

Uh huh. It hasn't happened until it happens. Don't pretend otherwise.

[terrible.dee]

18 hours ago, nux_win said:

Would you at least admit that our defense is better this year (even before the addition of Juolevi and when he's ready it will be better stil)?  I like the Gudbranson trade (he can skate way better than Murzyn ever could, and I think he's smarter too - we'll see).  I think we're pretty solid in goal too.  When Miller is done Demko will be ready to step in.  What's wrong with building from the back end? Defense is what wins.  And we want to win, don't we?

 

The forwards still need work, yes, but Benning has promised to address that at free agency, so we'll see what he has up his sleeve.  I don't think that Shinkaruk or McCann were a good fit on our team (McCann has a higher potential but I think it's important to keep good chemistry in the room - not that I know for sure but he supposedly didn't have the best attitude - and we didn't have any choice but to play him with all the injuries and lack of scoring depth).  I want players that want to play for each other instead of for themselves.  Benning seems to agree.

 

I don't think that Vrbata being lost at sea was Benning's fault.  He should have been good for more goals, that hurt us a lot.  His Debbie Downer mood seemed to be infectious.

 

I don't mind the Virtanen pick.  There are no guarantees but he's a hometown kid and he might figure out how to score in this league and if not, at least he'll play hard and skate and hit.  I'm tired of our team being pushed around.  The refs aren't going to stick up for us so we have to start sticking up for ourselves and for each other.  Benning is bringing in players that will do that.

 

Benning is building slowly and patiently (kinda like he talks).  It's still too early to see how his plan is going to work but at least he has a plan and it starts with character guys who play hard.  Confidence means a lot and if we have a team that is solid on the back end and going to stick up for each other, everybody plays better, it's not always about having the biggest names.

 

Well, does the addition of Gudbranson = better defence all around?

 

I'll give you a maybe on that one, he's kind of an unknown commodity at this point, clearly the story of his game can't be told in stats, and I want to know if their are any holes in his game that equal subtraction by addition. For instance, does his lack of offensive skill mean that we will be less able to break out of our zone, then when last years troupe was on the ice? If he's here to replace Hamhuis, that might be the case (Good PMD nearly always have a decent amount of assists, I can't think of any exceptions) Weber and Bartowski had half decent offensive instincts, they weren't great but with Weber in particular, they could play both ends if they were in the mood.

 

Sbisa is a loveable F%#k up, Edler is....unreliable but potentially great, Gudbranson is....I don't really know yet, but I would assume an intimidating presence, Tanev is solid. So if that's our top 4 I don't know, is it better than Tanev, Edler, Hamhuis, Sbisa?

 

I don't see the new kid as being a part of this team for a few years, so I'm not counting him. 

 

I'll certainly concede that you make good points about Virtannen, in that light, yes I suppose he was a good pick. I don't see Vbrata as a major screw-up he came here and did what he does, though I don't like the mind-set that brought him in, patchwork free-agents brought in to stop the bleeding rarely equal a winning squad.

 

I suppose the little scaps of info on McCann could mean he had the potential to be a negative presence, and I was disipointed with the way he played last year, I didn't mind the lack of scoring so much as the sheer lack of presence he had on the ice, at least Virt TRIED to make you remember he was there. I had heard McCann was grittier than he was. It just seems that we should have got some offensive potential back in that swap.

 

I really hope the Canucks are putting something together to pitch Edmonton for The Nuge, and that's the reason we drafted who we did. If Benning pulls that out of his a$$ then all is forgiven. Maybe the new kid plus Demko and a 2nd. That clears a spot EDM needs open, and gives them fewer big leage contracts to worry about for a year or two, but will also give them potential strength in their weakest positions. EDM doesn't need another superstar contract but if that kid slides in as a solid #4 D-man it could be just what they need, along with a future starting goalie. They could be ready to play right when McDavid, Dre and all the rest hit their prime. RNH fills our biggest need and has no place in EDM either from as hockey or financial standpoint. He is also dying for a re-start on his career, few people have been hrt more by the EDM phenomenon than him, he could still turn out to be a star.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

7 hours ago, oldnews said:

Puke.  Don't implicate Babcock in pom pom waving for tanking - he's a coach - putting that crap in his mouth is inappropriate.

 

The 2015-16 Winnipeg Jets?  Come again?   

 

Tim Murray is a gong show.  What a bizarre list you've assembled.

So you're saying that Babcock didn't know that the plan all along was to tank when he joined them? And you don't think that the Jets were tanking near the end of last year? And that Tim Murray hasn't massively improved the Sabres? O-K.

[87Crosby]

12 hours ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Lou Lamoriello, Brendan Shanahan, Mike Babock, Greg Popovich (arguably the best ever coach/GM in the NBA), the 2015-2016 Jets organization, Tim Murray and many other well-respected team GMs and presidents all say 'hello'. As I mentioned in another post, what I'm actually proposing is technically not a tank but more of a "don't be tempted to do band aid solutions".

Pls tell me where Gregg Popovitch tanked. Pls. 10+ seasons of 50 wins or more. 

 

Edit: And if you're referring to Tim Duncan, then you might not know the difference between tanking and having one of the most important players on your team go down due to injury and the importance of age on basketball players. The 97 Spurs weren't tanking they were just abysmal without David Robinson, they were getting older and they still didn't have the best odds to win Duncan. They beat teams they had no business beating if they wanted to tank anyways. 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

3 minutes ago, 87Crosby said:

Pls tell me where Gregg Popovitch tanked. Pls. 10+ seasons of 50 wins or more. 

Before I respond, let me again clarify a few things. As pointed out by another poster, 'tank' is not the correct word for what I'm proposing. I'm not proposing intentionally losing games by gutting your team (e.g., Toronto). I'm also not proposing tanking just for the sake of getting just any random high draft picks each year (e.g., Edmonton). I also like a lot of the moves that Benning did, but I want a decent chance of winning the Cup while the Sedins are still with us (4 years, tops), and I think we're going to need some kind of special young centre to do it, and those guys don't grow on trees. One is available to us via free agency (Stamkos). To get one through trades would likely mean that we have to lose possibly 2 or more of our young studs, and I don't want that. I believe that Nolan Patrick is a generational talent (as an added bonus [to me, anyways], the kid's also Canadian). What I'm proposing is that the possibility of being able to draft him should be factored in any decision that is made for the team.
All that said, when the Spurs got the top overall pick to get Tim Duncan, Pops was the GM. They had an unlucky season full of injuries to their 3 best front court players who have all demonstrated All-Star capabilities: David Robinson (broken foot), Sean Elliott (knee tendinitis) and Chuck Person (back spasms). 18 games into the season, Pops fired the coach and took over. There were rumblings that because the Admiral was out for the year, Pops encouraged Elliott and Person to not come play through what are playable injuries because they had no chance of getting far. Pops ended up leading the Spurs to what was at that time (and may still be?) the worst drop in win-loss percentage in the NBA. The Celtics still had the best chance of getting Duncan but the Spurs was bad enough that they got lucky.
It goes without saying, but by all means, feel free to disagree, but I believe the discussion ends up being more interesting when points are made instead of just denigrating labels thrown around. 

[Abysmal Moniker]

5 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

I really hope the Canucks are putting something together to pitch Edmonton for The Nuge, and that's the reason we drafted who we did. If Benning pulls that out of his a$$ then all is forgiven. Maybe the new kid plus Demko and a 2nd.

Juolevi + Demko + a 2nd for RNH?

 

[kingofsurrey]

2 minutes ago, Abysmal Moniker said:

Juolevi + Demko + a 2nd for RNH?

 

I would not even take RNH for Juolevi straight up....

 

Juolevi can be a major impact player on our club

[87Crosby]

1 hour ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Before I respond, let me again clarify a few things. As pointed out by another poster, 'tank' is not the correct word for what I'm proposing. I'm not proposing intentionally losing games by gutting your team (e.g., Toronto). I'm also not proposing tanking just for the sake of getting just any random high draft picks each year (e.g., Edmonton). I also like a lot of the moves that Benning did, but I want a decent chance of winning the Cup while the Sedins are still with us (4 years, tops), and I think we're going to need some kind of special young centre to do it, and those guys don't grow on trees. One is available to us via free agency (Stamkos). To get one through trades would likely mean that we have to lose possibly 2 or more of our young studs, and I don't want that. I believe that Nolan Patrick is a generational talent (as an added bonus [to me, anyways], the kid's also Canadian). What I'm proposing is that the possibility of being able to draft him should be factored in any decision that is made for the team.
All that said, when the Spurs got the top overall pick to get Tim Duncan, Pops was the GM. They had an unlucky season full of injuries to their 3 best front court players who have all demonstrated All-Star capabilities: David Robinson (broken foot), Sean Elliott (knee tendinitis) and Chuck Person (back spasms). 18 games into the season, Pops fired the coach and took over. There were rumblings that because the Admiral was out for the year, Pops encouraged Elliott and Person to not come play through what are playable injuries because they had no chance of getting far. Pops ended up leading the Spurs to what was at that time (and may still be?) the worst drop in win-loss percentage in the NBA. The Celtics still had the best chance of getting Duncan but the Spurs was bad enough that they got lucky.
It goes without saying, but by all means, feel free to disagree, but I believe the discussion ends up being more interesting when points are made instead of just denigrating labels thrown around. 

As long as you don't consider that tanking I'm fine. I'm still in the camp that thinks Pop did nothing wrong but there will always be a discussion, and let's be honest, Grizzlies deserved the first pick that year... 

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

So you're saying that Babcock didn't know that the plan all along was to tank when he joined them? And you don't think that the Jets were tanking near the end of last year? And that Tim Murray hasn't massively improved the Sabres? O-K.

The usual strawman response.  You can't speak for Babcock, plain and simple.

 

Babcock knew he was entering a REBUILD.  A shameless tank-o-rama is a different animal that I personally highly doubt Babcock would be particularly easy with.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

13 minutes ago, oldnews said:

The usual strawman response.  You can't speak for Babcock, plain and simple.

 

Babcock knew he was entering a REBUILD.  A shameless tank-o-rama is a different animal that I personally highly doubt Babcock would be particularly easy with.

You're the one that's throwing the straw man. I happen to think that Babcock is a smart person. Which smart person do you know would sign up without asking for details of the rebuild?

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

You're the one that's throwing the straw man. I happen to think that Babcock is a smart person. Which smart person do you know would sign up without asking for details of the rebuild?

Babcock is brilliant.  The one saving grace for a pathetic franchise.  He'll make that team respectable regardless of how many AHL assets they furnish him with, and how infrequently they ask his opinion.   You're assuming the intent of the extent of the tankdown was disclosed.  Lamoureilo does things like waive Cowen right after acquiring him - with Babcock unaware.

 

$50 million.  If I'm a coach, that speaks pretty loudly - but the competency of the Leafs management - presumed widely among pom pom wavers on these boards - has yet to be seen.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Babcock is brilliant.  The one saving grace for a pathetic franchise.  He'll make that team respectable regardless of how many AHL assets they furnish him with, and how infrequently they ask his opinion.   You're assuming the intent of the extent of the tankdown was disclosed.  Lamoureilo does things like waive Cowen right after acquiring him - with Babcock unaware.

 

$50 million.  If I'm a coach, that speaks pretty loudly - but the competency of the Leafs management - presumed widely among pom pom wavers on these boards - has yet to be seen.

Which one is more probable:

• An intelligent person who cares about winning asking details of the plan
• An intelligent person who cares about winning not bothering to ask the details for as long as he gets paid $50 million

[oldnews]

Just now, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Which one is more probable:

• An intelligent person who cares about winning asking details of the plan
• An intelligent person who cares about winning not bothering to ask the details for as long as he gets paid $50 million

A.

B.

C.

[oldnews]

Just do it like the Leafzzzzz!!!

 

Anyone hear Lou Lam refer to Jack Walker as a defenseman?

 

Lulz.  A D that scored 36 goals!  What an amazing pick in the 6th round!  I sawzzzit on hockeydb!!!

 

Anyone still think Lam is running the show?

 

Their GM....doesn't know the first thing about a player they just drafted.

 

Just do it like the Leafzzz!!

[GoBoGo53]

Ask Leafs fans how they feel about intentionally tanking a year. They have a future top 5 center in the NHL for the next 10-15 years.

[Alflives]

Just now, GoBoGo53 said:

Ask Leafs fans how they feel about intentionally tanking a year. They have a future top 5 center in the NHL for the next 10-15 years.

Hate the Leafs, but have to admit their full tank appears to be getting them further Along than our half tank. 

[Mr.Mulletandbars]

Unfortunately you cannot tank in Vancouver because the fans are fair weather, Band wagon or what ever term you want to use for most.  Most fans didn't care to watch the team last year because they were losers unlike the Leaf fans who still watched and cheered their team on. In our own bloody rink against the worst team (tanking team) our fans get out cheered by their fans. That's a fact and they got what they deserved this year and will probably end up with Stamkos as well as a playoff spot.

If you look at our prospects next to theirs, there is no comparison and we're now years behind the Leafs. We continue to fill these boards with jokes and what not about them but they will have the last laugh. It's time for us to pay our dues and not band-aid fix this team to maybe make the playoffs which will hold us back into the future. I still don't even see how any of the free agents get us into the playoffs and I am not saying trade everyone but I am saying do not go to free agency trying to fix this team. Go support our Canucks Vancouver.  Although, I did enjoy the cheap tickets last year however we need to get behind this team which gives our management team a chance to succeed.

[We Are All Cynics]

You don't need to tank to get the #1 pick people, wake up! What you need is a GM that can wheel and deal for it.

 

Tbh, Toronto was pretty lucky to get the #1 pick. Could've backfired on them greatly since they only had a 20% chance at it. What would've you all said if Winnipeg won the #1 pick and Toronto got #2?

 

As for the Canucks did you forget what happened to us landing in what should've been a guaranteed top three spot only to end up with #5. You actually want to go through that again?! That's the very definition of insanity. Yeah, let's waste and throw a season, finish dead last and likely wind up picking outside the top three again since the Canucks have no luck.

 

If the Canucks want the #1 pick, then Benning will have to deal for it. It sure beats screwing around a year for a lotto chance.