William Lockwood | RW

[Kootenay Gold]

He just finished his 3rd year.

 

[86Viking]

I understand him wanting to get his 4th year in and get the degree, but he can still do that thru correspondence. I think Lockwood brings the type of game that could be successful in the NHL. He seems to try hard and not have any fear and I am not sure he has much left to gain from a 4th year of college hockey. He is still only 20, I know it makes him expansion eligible but would JB dangle some NHL games this season for him to get him to bite and sign? I think it is a calculated move for sure, but getting in some NHL games now, can give him a jump and a realization of his ultimate goal and what he needs to work on to be successful at the highest level.

 

Sit Loui suit up Willie!

[Master 112]

56 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think it's more that those guys are pretty much guaranteed to have lucrative pro careers, so there was nothing else to consider.  For WL, he has to weigh a college degree, and that life experience, against the possibility of pro hockey career, which is far from assured for him.

 

We have to remember that for the bulk of the American kids, they grow up thinking that a national championship is the pinnacle for them.

I know I'm speaking without knowing the full context of Lockwood's life, but one has to think that the money a pro contract would guarantee him would be enticing. He can finish up his degree in the coming years, taking courses over the summer months, and he wouldn't suffer much of a detriment to a career outside of hockey if it turns out he doesn't have a real chance at the highest levels; having signed a contract with an NHL team looks good on anyone's resume, and the money he would make would set him up very well for whatever he might endeavor to do... become an entrepreneur, go onto graduate-level studies, or whatever.

 

I haven't followed the guy too closely, but considering he's had issues with injuries (shoulder surgeries, iirc?) in the past at such an early stage of his life/career, it wouldn't make full sense to forgo signing with the team--something could go wrong, he could have another set-back, and it might ruin his chances of being signed on at all and by anyone, ever. Also, he's really not that good to begin with. He has the potential to become a Hansen-comparable, but it's not set in stone.

 

I love this team and have a huge bias, but I genuinely think it's in his best interests to sign at this point, pursuing the dream and, failing that, at least banking some money in the short-term.

[GoldenAlien]

From Michigan's head coach:

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by GoldenAlien

[JamesB]

 

15 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

I understand him wanting to get his 4th year in and get the degree, but he can still do that thru correspondence. I think Lockwood brings the type of game that could be successful in the NHL. He seems to try hard and not have any fear and I am not sure he has much left to gain from a 4th year of college hockey. He is still only 20, I know it makes him expansion eligible but would JB dangle some NHL games this season for him to get him to bite and sign? I think it is a calculated move for sure, but getting in some NHL games now, can give him a jump and a realization of his ultimate goal and what he needs to work on to be successful at the highest level.

 

Sit Loui suit up Willie!

 

On 3/10/2019 at 8:07 PM, Quantum said:

Yep. Exactly.

 

Will will also want to weigh his NHL options. Can he make an NHL roster faster by signing with the Canucks this year? Or would it be more advantageous for him to play out his senior year at Michigan and get to pick his destination in August of 2020? How much competition is there for Will between now and then? Those are probably the questions The Lockwood Family are asking.

 

And honestly, looking at how the rookie wingers have been deployed in Utica could make Will second guess whether or not wants to play there next year or go to UFA after next season.

 

It's definitely a tough decision.

 

 

On 3/10/2019 at 8:14 PM, Rick Blight said:

Yeah, I believe 1 game with the Canucks would burn a year off his ELC and I am sure that is something the Canucks camp is taking into consideration vs the risk of not signing him and risk losing him to free agency next summer. A PTO offer with Utica may not be enough incentive to give up a possible captaincy with Michigan for his senior year. Personally, I would like the Canucks to sign him and burn the 1st year of his ELC but I don't know if they believe he is ready for NHL time or ever will be in their estimation. Number of contracts may also be a consideration moving forward but I think they have that under control.

Obviously I have no idea what decision Lockwood will make about turning pro. But, if I were him, I would stay at Michigan. Here is the reasoning.

 

1. Will is a good prospect but his chances of becoming an NHL regular are still below 50-50. And Michigan is a very good university. For a guy in that situation, finishing his degree has a lot of value. And many guys (and their parents) just want to finish a degree even if they do play in the NHL.

 

2. Yes, he could finish his degree on a part-time basis with summer courses and distance courses. A lot of guys who leave university after three years do that and some guys who leave after two years also do it. My understanding is that both Demko (3 years) and Boeser (2 years) are trying to finish their degrees, But, it is a lot easier and faster to do it in one full-time year. And, for most guys, it is a lot more enjoyable. Going to classes with your friends is usually a lot more enjoyable than squeezing in online homework late at night.

 

3. There is not much financial advantage from turning pro and playing in the AHL. The AHL salary on entry level deals is 70K per year. And there would be a signing bonus. I think the max is about 92K for the year. So that adds up to 162K for the year. But, he would pay his agent a percentage and would have higher expenses. Frankly, his standard of living would probably be lower in Utica next year than in Ann Arbor, Michigan. He would not have a lot of money at Michigan but all his expenses are covered and student life does not require a lot of money to be fun. Ann Arbor is a great place to be, and of course you have lots of friends (and lots of attractive young women) and, for guys who are smart and like learning things, being at University is enjoyable. For a guy like Lockwood, I think he was enjoy his year much more at Michigan.

 

4. By all accounts, Utica is kind of a grind and most guys are working hard to try to get out of Utica. Some guys are happy just to be earning a good living playing hockey and would do it anywhere, but I cannot recall hearing a player say that they actually enjoy being in Utica. And obviously some guys have been unhappy in Utica. And it is not like guys who go to Utica have a great developmental track record. And would rather be a 4th line grinder in Utica or a star in Michigan? Especially, if playing in Michigan provides better development. Lots of guys go straight from the NCAA to the NHL and, if I were Lockwood, I would want to maximize the chance of doing that.

 

5. Finally, by playing an extra year at Michigan, Lockwood could become a free agent and choose where he wants sign. He is a good enough prospect that he would get quite a few offers. For an NHL team it would be like getting a second or third round pick for free. A lot of people on CDC are defensive about criticisms of Canuck management but I suspect that a lot of players would rather go elsewhere. From the outside, the Canucks look like a gong show to a lot of people. (I am guessing that Dahlen's agent is not too high on the Canucks right now.)  Certainly there are teams with a much better reputation for development. 

 

The Canucks could make it as attractive as possible for Lockwood if they offer to let him play one game on the Canucks and burn a year off his ECL. But, Lockwood is not the kind of guy who is going to get a big payday by advancing his first RFA contract by a year.

 

Like I said above, I do not pretend to have any idea about what Lockwood will do. But, for me, it would be an easy call.

 

Lockwood is in a completely different situation from Hughes. For Hughes, there are huge incentives to turn pro now, as he did.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by JamesB

[NHL'er]

1 hour ago, JamesB said:

 

 

 

 

Obviously I have no idea what decision Lockwood will make about turning pro. But, if I were him, I would stay at Michigan. Here is the reasoning.

 

1. Will is a good prospect but his chances of becoming an NHL regular are still below 50-50. And Michigan is a very good university. For a guy in that situation, finishing his degree has a lot of value. And many guys (and their parents) just want to finish a degree even if they do play in the NHL.

 

2. Yes, he could finish his degree on a part-time basis with summer courses and distance courses. A lot of guys who leave university after three years do that and some guys who leave after two years also do it. My understanding is that both Demko (3 years) and Boeser (2 years) are trying to finish their degrees, But, it is a lot easier and faster to do it in one full-time year. And, for most guys, it is a lot more enjoyable. Going to classes with your friends is usually a lot more enjoyable than squeezing in online homework late at night.

 

3. There is not much financial advantage from turning pro and playing in the AHL. The AHL salary on entry level deals is 70K per year. And there would be a signing bonus. I think the max is about 92K for the year. So that adds up to 162K for the year. But, he would pay his agent a percentage and would have higher expenses. Frankly, his standard of living would probably be lower in Utica next year than in Ann Arbor, Michigan. He would not have a lot of money at Michigan but all his expenses are covered and student life does not require a lot of money to be fun. Ann Arbor is a great place to be, and of course you have lots of friends (and lots of attractive young women) and, for guys who are smart and like learning things, being at University is enjoyable. For a guy like Lockwood, I think he was enjoy his year much more at Michigan.

 

4. By all accounts, Utica is kind of a grind and most guys are working hard to try to get out of Utica. Some guys are happy just to be earning a good living playing hockey and would do it anywhere, but I cannot recall hearing a player say that they actually enjoy being in Utica. And obviously some guys have been unhappy in Utica. And it is not like guys who go to Utica have a great developmental track record. And would rather be a 4th line grinder in Utica or a star in Michigan? Especially, if playing in Michigan provides better development. Lots of guys go straight from the NCAA to the NHL and, if I were Lockwood, I would want to maximize the chance of doing that.

 

5. Finally, by playing an extra year at Michigan, Lockwood could become a free agent and choose where he wants sign. He is a good enough prospect that he would get quite a few offers. For an NHL team it would be like getting a second or third round pick for free. A lot of people on CDC are defensive about criticisms of Canuck management but I suspect that a lot of players would rather go elsewhere. From the outside, the Canucks look like a gong show to a lot of people. (I am guessing that Dahlen's agent is not too high on the Canucks right now.)  Certainly there are teams with a much better reputation for development. 

 

The Canucks could make it as attractive as possible for Lockwood if they offer to let him play one game on the Canucks and burn a year off his ECL. But, Lockwood is not the kind of guy who is going to get a big payday by advancing his first RFA contract by a year.

 

Like I said above, I do not pretend to have any idea about what Lockwood will do. But, for me, it would be an easy call.

 

Lockwood is in a completely different situation from Hughes. For Hughes, there are huge incentives to turn pro now, as he did.

 

 

Good post overall but what? Since when was $162k not a lot of money? 

[JamesB]

11 hours ago, NHL'er said:

Good post overall but what? Since when was $162k not a lot of money? 

Not to get carried away  --- okay I am getting carried away, but here is how I see the financial situation.

 

If Lockwood or any other NCAA plays stays in college for an extra year and delays signing he probably loses $162.5 K, assuming he get the maximum bonus (92.5K) and AHL salary (70 K). Those things get delayed for a year. Also, the time to the first RFA contract might or might not get delayed by a year, depending on the player's age. But for guys like Lockwood, the first RFA deal is not likely to be a lot more than the entry level deal, so that is not a major consideration.

 

Anyway, 162.5K sounds like quite a lot. But first the player pays his agent, typically about 5%. That takes him to 154. And of course there are taxes to consider. I am not sure exactly how things would work for Lockwood but if he was resident in New York for tax purposes, his taxes would be pretty high (kind of like Canada). I just checked some tax calculators that indicate he would be left with 104K. But maybe I am missing some deductions or loopholes, so let's say 110K. 

 

He would have significant expenses in Utica. I don't think Utica is expensive but he would want a reasonably nice place and car. And hockey players eat out a lot and go out a fair amount. Various websites suggest that professional athletes need to budget at least 50 or 60K for expenses, and it is easy to spend a lot more.

 

If Lockwood managed to save $50K out of his initial 162.5K he would be doing well. What he loses for that is the year at Michigan. If he were to go to Michigan for a year to finish his degree the cost is about $32,000 per year for in-state students (as he would lose his scholarship). (See https://finaid.umich.edu/cost-of-attendance/).

Even if he took summer courses or distance courses to finish his degree that would cost at least $20K.

 

So his net value of signing is maybe $30K. 

 

But here is the big number. If Lockwood becomes a free agent he can select a team where he is likely to play on the NHL team. A GM might even promise him a good look at the NHL level. No GM would guarantee a spot but he might say -- we have you penciled in for at least 10 games to start the season, and if you play well you can stay..

 

Alex Kerfoot did exactly that -- he was drafted by New Jersey but played out his university career then signed with Colorado instead of Vancouver because he thought he could play at the NHL with Colorado, which he did, whereas the Canucks apparently indicated he would go to Utica to start. By playing in the NHL he has gotten $925K per year for the past two years instead of getting $70K to play in Utica. Kerfoot is probably thanking his lucky stars that he signed with Colorado instead of Vancouver -- and Colorado is a better team than Vancouver as well.  In any case, that is big money.

 

Bottom line: There is very little financial incentive for Lockwood to sign now. If he signs now the reason would likely be that he just wants to move on, or maybe he is getting tired of mixing academics and hockey and wants to focus on just hockey, or maybe he figures he has a good chance to make the Canucks. But if I were Lockwood I would not want to go to Utica, and I might want to talk to Dahlen first. .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vannuck59]

3 hours ago, JamesB said:

Bottom line: There is very little financial incentive for Lockwood to sign now. If he signs now the reason would likely be that he just wants to move on, or maybe he is getting tired of mixing academics and hockey and wants to focus on just hockey, or maybe he figures he has a good chance to make the Canucks. But if I were Lockwood I would not want to go to Utica, and I might want to talk to Dahlen first. .

Dahlen is another Black Eye for this club and if Lockwood chooses to play out his college years and sign elsewhere . ITs time to gut this management.

[TheRealistOptimist]

4 hours ago, JamesB said:

Not to get carried away  --- okay I am getting carried away, but here is how I see the financial situation.

 

If Lockwood or any other NCAA plays stays in college for an extra year and delays signing he probably loses $162.5 K, assuming he get the maximum bonus (92.5K) and AHL salary (70 K). Those things get delayed for a year. Also, the time to the first RFA contract might or might not get delayed by a year, depending on the player's age. But for guys like Lockwood, the first RFA deal is not likely to be a lot more than the entry level deal, so that is not a major consideration.

 

Anyway, 162.5K sounds like quite a lot. But first the player pays his agent, typically about 5%. That takes him to 154. And of course there are taxes to consider. I am not sure exactly how things would work for Lockwood but if he was resident in New York for tax purposes, his taxes would be pretty high (kind of like Canada). I just checked some tax calculators that indicate he would be left with 104K. But maybe I am missing some deductions or loopholes, so let's say 110K. 

 

He would have significant expenses in Utica. I don't think Utica is expensive but he would want a reasonably nice place and car. And hockey players eat out a lot and go out a fair amount. Various websites suggest that professional athletes need to budget at least 50 or 60K for expenses, and it is easy to spend a lot more.

 

If Lockwood managed to save $50K out of his initial 162.5K he would be doing well. What he loses for that is the year at Michigan. If he were to go to Michigan for a year to finish his degree the cost is about $32,000 per year for in-state students (as he would lose his scholarship). (See https://finaid.umich.edu/cost-of-attendance/).

Even if he took summer courses or distance courses to finish his degree that would cost at least $20K.

 

So his net value of signing is maybe $30K. 

 

But here is the big number. If Lockwood becomes a free agent he can select a team where he is likely to play on the NHL team. A GM might even promise him a good look at the NHL level. No GM would guarantee a spot but he might say -- we have you penciled in for at least 10 games to start the season, and if you play well you can stay..

 

Alex Kerfoot did exactly that -- he was drafted by New Jersey but played out his university career then signed with Colorado instead of Vancouver because he thought he could play at the NHL with Colorado, which he did, whereas the Canucks apparently indicated he would go to Utica to start. By playing in the NHL he has gotten $925K per year for the past two years instead of getting $70K to play in Utica. Kerfoot is probably thanking his lucky stars that he signed with Colorado instead of Vancouver -- and Colorado is a better team than Vancouver as well.  In any case, that is big money.

 

Bottom line: There is very little financial incentive for Lockwood to sign now. If he signs now the reason would likely be that he just wants to move on, or maybe he is getting tired of mixing academics and hockey and wants to focus on just hockey, or maybe he figures he has a good chance to make the Canucks. But if I were Lockwood I would not want to go to Utica, and I might want to talk to Dahlen first. .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice try. 

 

But you have spent way more of his money than need be. 

 

1 - he probably already has a car

2 - he will be getting paid by Utica and therefore that will cover his expenses (food, housing)

3 - I am 99% sure that if players leave school early, then the NHL team they sign with covers the costs of their remaining school years. It’s part of their contracts, when I signed a baseball contract the team covered the cost of my remaining years of school.

 

You grossly over exaggerated how much he would be spending on all these things. Also he’s American so he gets much larger tax returns than if he were Canadian. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by TheRealistOptimist

[RetroCanuck]

Really doubt that Lockwood signs this offseason. I also think its best for him to go back to the NCAA and play more games while leading his team. Plus going to Utica would mean competing for ice with a lot of forwards and I doubt he will get much ice down there.

 

So let the panic begin that Lockwood wont sign with us.... although I really do think he will.

[Grape]

On 3/12/2019 at 2:14 PM, JamesB said:

 

 

 

 

Obviously I have no idea what decision Lockwood will make about turning pro. But, if I were him, I would stay at Michigan. Here is the reasoning.

 

1. Will is a good prospect but his chances of becoming an NHL regular are still below 50-50. And Michigan is a very good university. For a guy in that situation, finishing his degree has a lot of value. And many guys (and their parents) just want to finish a degree even if they do play in the NHL.

 

might sound biased because I go to school here, but the perception around is that UM athletes (football basketball hockey), generally stay a bit longer than guys at other schools as a degree or even a certificate in a certain concentration is really valuable.

 

However I don’t see it as a big obstacle since high end athletes who have a chance to play in the NFL NBA or NHL generally worry about their athletic career first, and then if academics matters at all, it would get taken care of some other way in the future.

 

I think the same goes with Lockwood and I don’t recall knowing him as some kind of academic wizard around here who would want his degree.

 

That being said I do agree with all your other points. Altogether if I were Lockwood I’d stay another year as well. Josh Norris will likely be back and Lockwood won’t have to carry the forwards so his value will go up me thinks.

On 3/13/2019 at 8:50 AM, TheRealistOptimist said:

Nice try. 

 

But you have spent way more of his money than need be. 

 

1 - he probably already has a car

2 - he will be getting paid by Utica and therefore that will cover his expenses (food, housing)

3 - I am 99% sure that if players leave school early, then the NHL team they sign with covers the costs of their remaining school years. It’s part of their contracts, when I signed a baseball contract the team covered the cost of my remaining years of school.

 

You grossly over exaggerated how much he would be spending on all these things. Also he’s American so he gets much larger tax returns than if he were Canadian. 

Honestly I’m not sure how the car thing is that relevant, but minimal students own a cars around Ann Arbor so I would be very surprised if Lockwood did. 

 

I also think it’s much more simple than people might think. If Lockwood feels he can advance his career better in Vancouver’s system, he’d do so, if he feels like Michigan is better, he’d choose Michigan. I only ‘know’ him through mutual friends but I think he’s leaning towards going back to school, and I don’t blame him cuz I’d do so as well.

 

When it’s all said an done it would be pretty devastating to lose a 3rd round pick who is on track to be better than a 3rd round pick, so I’m holding my breath.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Grape

[VegasCanuck]

On 3/13/2019 at 4:43 AM, vannuck59 said:

Dahlen is another Black Eye for this club and if Lockwood chooses to play out his college years and sign elsewhere . ITs time to gut this management.

Drama

 

Why are so many people on this board trying to create Drama?

[TheRealistOptimist]

1 hour ago, Grape said:

might sound biased because I go to school here, but the perception around is that UM athletes (football basketball hockey), generally stay a bit longer than guys at other schools as a degree or even a certificate in a certain concentration is really valuable.

 

However I don’t see it as a big obstacle since high end athletes who have a chance to play in the NFL NBA or NHL generally worry about their athletic career first, and then if academics matters at all, it would get taken care of some other way in the future.

 

I think the same goes with Lockwood and I don’t recall knowing him as some kind of academic wizard around here who would want his degree.

 

That being said I do agree with all your other points. Altogether if I were Lockwood I’d stay another year as well. Josh Norris will likely be back and Lockwood won’t have to carry the forwards so his value will go up me thinks.

Honestly I’m not sure how the car thing is that relevant, but minimal students own a cars around Ann Arbor so I would be very surprised if Lockwood did. 

 

I also think it’s much more simple than people might think. If Lockwood feels he can advance his career better in Vancouver’s system, he’d do so, if he feels like Michigan is better, he’d choose Michigan. I only ‘know’ him through mutual friends but I think he’s leaning towards going back to school, and I don’t blame him cuz I’d do so as well.

 

When it’s all said an done it would be pretty devastating to lose a 3rd round pick who is on track to be better than a 3rd round pick, so I’m holding my breath.

I didn’t mention anything about his decision or what he should do. 

 

My only point was that the other person grossly over exaggerated how much money he would need to spend by going to Utica. 

 

As for the car thing the other poster mentioned him buying one, I’ve spent quite a few years down in the States (mostly in the south) and from what I’ve experienced most people already have a car and often do from high school. Maybe he doesn’t need one when at school in Ann Arbour (I’ve never been) but he probably has one at home then.

[Grape]

1 minute ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

I didn’t mention anything about his decision or what he should do. 

 

My only point was that the other person grossly over exaggerated how much money he would need to spend by going to Utica. 

 

As for the car thing the other poster mentioned him buying one, I’ve spent quite a few years down in the States (mostly in the south) and from what I’ve experienced most people already have a car and often do from high school. Maybe he doesn’t need one when at school in Ann Arbour (I’ve never been) but he probably has one at home then.

Ya I know haha. I was just kinda rambling on after my first point. Wasn’t saying you were wrong.

[Noble 6]

If Lockwood decides to go back to Michigan for next year, I'd look to trade him at that point honestly. He would have no incentive to sign with Vancouver when he could just wait a couple of months to sign with whatever team he wants. Might as well try and recoup the 3rd rounder we spent on him. 

[Grape]

2 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

If Lockwood decides to go back to Michigan for next year, I'd look to trade him at that point honestly. He would have no incentive to sign with Vancouver when he could just wait a couple of months to sign with whatever team he wants. Might as well try and recoup the 3rd rounder we spent on him. 

It's the same thing for the team who trades for him though. If anything it's even worse for the team that would trade for him.

 

At least he has an incentive to sign with the team that drafted him. If he's traded, he really has no allegiance to any team and will almost certainly test FA. 

 

For that reason his value would be very very low, lower than the potential benefit of signing with us

Edited March 14, 2019 by Grape

[Podz92]

7 minutes ago, Grape said:

It's the same thing for the team who trades for him though. If anything it's even worse for the team that would trade for him.

 

At least he has an incentive to sign with the team that drafted him. If he's traded, he really has no allegiance to any team and will almost certainly test FA. 

 

For that reason his value would be very very low, lower than the potential benefit of signing with us

Most of the time in these situations, the GM of the team selling gives the prospective buyer permission to talk to the player and gauge his interest in signing. 9 times out of 10 when a trade like this happens the player signs within 24 hours of the trade happening....

[Grape]

Just now, JamesBlondage said:

Most of the time in these situations, the GM of the team selling gives the prospective buyer permission to talk to the player and gauge his interest in signing. 9 times out of 10 when a trade like this happens the player signs within 24 hours of the trade happening....

Of course, but that's only considering if there was no interest from the prospect signing with your team, which isn't the case here.

[Podz92]

1 minute ago, Grape said:

Of course, but that's only considering if there was no interest from the prospect signing with your team, which isn't the case here.

Actually I think the only one I can think of who's rights got traded and then signed with someone else is R.J Umberger....drafted by Vancouver who traded his rights to the NY Rangers, he held out for a year and signed with Philadelphia...

[Grape]

1 minute ago, JamesBlondage said:

Actually I think the only one I can think of who's rights got traded and then signed with someone else is R.J Umberger....drafted by Vancouver who traded his rights to the NY Rangers, he held out for a year and signed with Philadelphia...

Yeah, Umberger had no interest in Vancouver though. It's a pretty big assumption at this point to think that Lockwood has no interest. 

 

If every player going into their 4th season in college was traded then there would be a higher proportion of players who opt for FA. Could be wrong though.

 

But at this point any thought of trading Lockwood is definitely premature and most likely has negative value for the reason I pointed out in my first post.