Loui Eriksson | #21 | LW/RW

[Sbriggs]

On 9/2/2019 at 1:15 PM, aGENT said:

If he brought ANYTHING else to the table... sure.

 

Between Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Leivo, Pearson, Horvat, Virtanen, Roussel when he's back, Miller etc, etc I'm pretty sure we can fill out a couple competent PK squads. Eriksson or not.

 

Eriksson's got an up hill battle to show he's worth a roster spot over younger, cheaper, more valuable players.

He can mentor our boys in Utica

[AK_19]

2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

How can I say this without sounding like I'm criticizing JV - PK is one of the responsibilities on a team that requires above average 'hockey-sense'.  Speed alone - which JV has there's no doubt - won't in and of itself make a good PK guy.  I don't think anyone can objectively question any of the physical 'hockey-tools' that JV brings to the rink each night - his biggest criticism has always been 'hockey sense' so I can see whey he's not getting a lot of PK duty. 

 

That said, would I rather have someone like JV try his butt off on the PK rather than someone like LE, who has the hockey sense but lacks effort......well, that's another story:). 

Hockey sense is more complicated than that. When JV is criticized for hockey sense, it's because he has a lack of sense of what to do in the offensive zone. He is one of our least creative players and doesn't know how to use his line mates. I see no issues with hockey sense with defensive situations. The reason I use Grabner is because they actually are remarkably similar players. Neither have particularly good offensive hockey IQ or use their linemates particularly well which is largely irrelevant on the PK anyways. I'd argue Virtanen is already better defensively than Grabner was at the same age. Merely having Virtanen out there makes other teams more hesitant to play aggressively because of his speed. 

 

[Yung1]

3 hours ago, Fanuck said:

How can I say this without sounding like I'm criticizing JV - PK is one of the responsibilities on a team that requires above average 'hockey-sense'.  Speed alone - which JV has there's no doubt - won't in and of itself make a good PK guy.  I don't think anyone can objectively question any of the physical 'hockey-tools' that JV brings to the rink each night - his biggest criticism has always been 'hockey sense' so I can see whey he's not getting a lot of PK duty. 

 

That said, would I rather have someone like JV try his butt off on the PK rather than someone like LE, who has the hockey sense but lacks effort......well, that's another story:). 

Conversely, maybe the PK helps Virtanen cultivate a better hockey sense defensively. I read this post and thought back to playing hockey as a kid, and how working the PK taught me a lot about being defensively aware and positionally sound. Bit of a risk to put someone on the PK because you think it will help their game. Maybe it hurts you a bit short term, but it might actually make Virtanen a better overall player.

 

Aside from that though, JV has the physical tools to be a great PK'er, obviously. The speed, the physicality, and he does have a knack for takeaways. Would be great if we were to turn him into a sound PK'er.

[Googlie]

I would love to see Virtanen and Pettersson on the same PK unit. 

It would bring back memories of Bure,  Russ Courtnall and Mogilny on penalty-killing where the opposition were scared to cross the offensive blue line for fear of being burned on a takeaway / breakaway

And Jake led the team on takeaways last season, and who better to finish with a shortie that Petey?

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Googlie said:

I would love to see Virtanen and Pettersson on the same PK unit. 

It would bring back memories of Bure,  Russ Courtnall and Mogilny on penalty-killing where the opposition were scared to cross the offensive blue line for fear of being burned on a takeaway / breakaway

And Jake led the team on takeaways last season, and who better to finish with a shortie that Petey?

Jake yes for sure.  Petey a definite no.  The fewer shots Petey blocks the better.  Plus, I like to see his minutes in the O zone.  

[King Heffy]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Jake yes for sure.  Petey a definite no.  The fewer shots Petey blocks the better.  Plus, I like to see his minutes in the O zone.  

What about if we're down a goal in the third though?  Petey wants to be a 200 foot player.  If he's up for it, I'm all for teaching him, but picking our spots as to when he's utilized.

[-AJ-]

34 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Jake yes for sure.  Petey a definite no.  The fewer shots Petey blocks the better.  Plus, I like to see his minutes in the O zone.  

I think Petey will block shots whether he's on the PK or not. It's not unheard of to have offensive stars on the PK, so I wouldn't totally balk at the idea.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

What about if we're down a goal in the third though?  Petey wants to be a 200 foot player.  If he's up for it, I'm all for teaching him, but picking our spots as to when he's utilized.

 

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

I think Petey will block shots whether he's on the PK or not. It's not unheard of to have offensive stars on the PK, so I wouldn't totally balk at the idea.

Petey is a great player.  He’d quickly become our best forward PK guy.  Still don’t want him doing PK.  

[King Heffy]

Just now, Alflives said:

 

Petey is a great player.  He’d quickly become our best forward PK guy.  Still don’t want him doing PK.  

So critical situation late in a playoff game, you still wouldn't want our best PK guy out there?  No one is suggesting he takes a regular PK shift in meaningless games.  Mario Lemieux killed penalties with all his health problems.

[Alflives]

Just now, King Heffy said:

So critical situation late in a playoff game, you still wouldn't want our best PK guy out there?  No one is suggesting he takes a regular PK shift in meaningless games.  Mario Lemieux killed penalties with all his health problems.

Petey is on the ice is all critical playoff situations.  For sure.  Regular season games on the PK ... no way.  

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Petey is on the ice is all critical playoff situations.  For sure.  Regular season games on the PK ... no way.  

You don't get him to that level without in-game experience though.  For a guy as talented as EP40, I think he should be allowed to make his own decision.

[Kootenay Gold]

20 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

You don't get him to that level without in-game experience though.  For a guy as talented as EP40, I think he should be allowed to make his own decision.

I would not want him blocking shots either better served providing offence.

 

[King Heffy]

20 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

I would not want him blocking shots either better served providing offence.

 

If Petey is willing to do so to help the team, I respect Green's judgement as to what is actually best for the team.  When your best player is willing to sacrifice his body to win, it makes the rest of the team work that little bit harder.

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

If Petey is willing to do so to help the team, I respect Green's judgement as to what is actually best for the team.  When your best player is willing to sacrifice his body to win, it makes the rest of the team work that little bit harder.

thats true, Petey's desire to be a complete player was on display last year. He wasn't hurt doing any of that, only by douchey moves on him. It may have contributed to him losing some steam at the end of the year but my guess is he will come to camp in great shape.

[J-P]

8 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I think he absolutely would be criticized in the same manner because at the end of the day, he's being paid 6 million dollars to score, not skate around like a mad man. This "lack of effort" is simply people trying to find excuses to send him to the minors. Bottom line is he is an overpaid player for what he provides whatever it may be. He's proven that he's one of the better PK guys on the team and strangely enough this is because of the exact reason you brought up in why Virtanen shouldn't be on the PK. LE has the hockey sense to be positionally sound and thus being able to take on a "bottom 6" role unlike players like Lucic or Okposo who provide little else when their scoring dries up.

 

I've watched many "lazy" players and I don't think LE fits that criteria. So he only three 3 hits or whatever last season, Lucic led his team in hits and people are still saying he's one of the "worst players in the NHL". So LE simply doesn't play a style that people want to see and he's either snakebitten or simply has lost his hands, but that is not due to a lack of effort. People undervalue defensive play all the time and this seems to be no different.

 

Again, not defending LE here as I don't think he's worth his contract at all, but it's simply that he's paid to be a top 6 offensive forward and he isn't providing that. He shouldn't have made his comment to the media and that just added more fuel to the already raging fire, but that's likely stemming from from the fact that if they expect him to score more, then he needs to be put with players that can produce. He simply isn't a driver of the offense, but believes he is a good complementary piece. Hard to say if I agree with him or not, but he certainly hasn't been in a top 6 role for very long aside from the declining Sedins and a short stint with EP where he was indeed putting up numbers before trying to spark BB and bumping him off the line.

He actually had quite a good stint with Bo and Pearson as well.

 

Offensively LE is a garbage goal player first and most, always has been. I remember in his last 30 goal season when he scored on a breakaway and he shot from far out and I was thinking like "wow, he DID that?!". That's how rare goals away from the net is for him, pretty much.

 

I was on the train of thought that LE would fit well with the Sedins after they dominated the WC, so can't really blame JB I guess, but in hindsight it's clear that LE not only need players on his line that drive the play, but he also needs lots of shots from his linemates that generates rebounds. Sounds like the Sedins much? Beagle?

 

So I don't think it's out of the question that the he's put with Bo and Pearson or Ferland (especially if we try to ice 3 scoring lines) and scores 5-10 goals in the first 20 games. Then things will look different and he can probably be traded or find a role with the team. He did have a pretty bad WC this year though, so the signs of decline is definitely there.

 

The lack of effort people keep bringing up is a very weak argument. Sure, he's not a meat and potato player, but he never has been, always played with effortless positioning and hockey sense as his tools. Also, when you look at his career numbers it's clear that he's a good second liner with 2-3 career seasons when playing with elite linemates, so his numbers with us aren't really that much of a shock considering context and usage.

 

Regardless - it will be very interesting to see how the start of the season plays out for him, I actually expect to see quite a lot of him in pre-season games with the expectation that he grabs the opportunity. That would IMO be the smart move for all parties since it would hopefully bring some light as to whether he still has it or not.

[Timråfan]

13 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Ask yourself this question - if LE had the same stats he's had over his 3 years here - but was unequivocally one of - if not THE - hardest working guy on the team night in/night out - would he be subject to the same levels of criticism here and in the general media?  My guess is he would still be considered overpaid, but people would be happy he was working hard every single shift in order to make up for his lack of scoring.  Sadly, imo, he's done neither while he's been here - work harder than everyone else or score that is. 

If a player has a certain amount of energy in the muscles, why waste that on huffing and puffing with no result? 

Why not have the power left in the muscles to do a real push when needed. 

[theo5789]

7 hours ago, J-P said:

He actually had quite a good stint with Bo and Pearson as well.

 

Offensively LE is a garbage goal player first and most, always has been. I remember in his last 30 goal season when he scored on a breakaway and he shot from far out and I was thinking like "wow, he DID that?!". That's how rare goals away from the net is for him, pretty much.

 

I was on the train of thought that LE would fit well with the Sedins after they dominated the WC, so can't really blame JB I guess, but in hindsight it's clear that LE not only need players on his line that drive the play, but he also needs lots of shots from his linemates that generates rebounds. Sounds like the Sedins much? Beagle?

 

So I don't think it's out of the question that the he's put with Bo and Pearson or Ferland (especially if we try to ice 3 scoring lines) and scores 5-10 goals in the first 20 games. Then things will look different and he can probably be traded or find a role with the team. He did have a pretty bad WC this year though, so the signs of decline is definitely there.

 

The lack of effort people keep bringing up is a very weak argument. Sure, he's not a meat and potato player, but he never has been, always played with effortless positioning and hockey sense as his tools. Also, when you look at his career numbers it's clear that he's a good second liner with 2-3 career seasons when playing with elite linemates, so his numbers with us aren't really that much of a shock considering context and usage.

 

Regardless - it will be very interesting to see how the start of the season plays out for him, I actually expect to see quite a lot of him in pre-season games with the expectation that he grabs the opportunity. That would IMO be the smart move for all parties since it would hopefully bring some light as to whether he still has it or not.

The Pearson-Horvat line was one of the best to finish the season too, but I guess because LE wasn't putting up the numbers, so he didn't contribute to it to some.

 

LE started the WC really well, but then faded in the 2nd half. Wasn't a dominant offensive force, but still put up a respectable 4 points in 8 games. I'm sure many would be happier if he put up 0.5 PPG here.

 

People want him to be a player he isn't because they know he will never be and thus not an "NHL player" in their view.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

The Pearson-Horvat line was one of the best to finish the season too, but I guess because LE wasn't putting up the numbers, so he didn't contribute to it to some.

 

LE started the WC really well, but then faded in the 2nd half. Wasn't a dominant offensive force, but still put up a respectable 4 points in 8 games. I'm sure many would be happier if he put up 0.5 PPG here.

 

People want him to be a player he isn't because they know he will never be and thus not an "NHL player" in their view.

While I agree the 'lacks effort' argument is quite overplayed by some, even ex-NHL'ers were commenting on him 'floating around' out there FWIW. It's not just a bitter fan theory.

 

Personally I think that's more of a confidence issue than 'try' issue though (as much as we may dislike what he's shown in Vancouver, I can guarantee he's even less happy about how he's played here).

 

IMO, his confidence, lack of production, age related decline, poor fit etc are the reasons he looks somewhat listless out there. He's going to have to fight through that or...

Edited September 4, 2019 by aGENT

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

While I agree the 'lacks effort' argument is quite overplayed by some, even ex-NHL'ers were commenting on him 'floating around' out there FWIW. It's not just a bitter fan theory.

 

Personally I think that's more of a confidence issue than 'try' issue though (as much as we may dislike what he's shown in Vancouver, I can guarantee he's even less happy about how he's played here).

 

IMO, his confidence, lack of production, age related decline, poor fit etc are the reasons he looks somewhat listless out there. He's going to have to fight through that or...

Does anyone keep track of top 6 to bottom 6 conversions? I suspect a drop in production of 1/2 is pretty normal. 

 

I do think part of the perceived "floating" is he's actually very good at positioning + a lack of hitting. If he finished a few more checks it might have altered the floater perception a lot even though it wouldn't have effected the outcome of any of the games if Loui had say 75 hits instead of 3. 

[aGENT]

14 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Does anyone keep track of top 6 to bottom 6 conversions? I suspect a drop in production of 1/2 is pretty normal. 

 

I do think part of the perceived "floating" is he's actually very good at positioning + a lack of hitting. If he finished a few more checks it might have altered the floater perception a lot even though it wouldn't have effected the outcome of any of the games if Loui had say 75 hits instead of 3. 

Truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

Like I said, I think the 'only 3 hits?!? ' narrative is massively overplayed. Particularly as that's never been his play style. 

 

But you can also tell he looks (understandably) unhappy, defeated, lacking confidence etc and it's affecting his play. He doesn't look like 'classic' LE, giving 110%. He's playing like defeated LE and it shows. Let's not gloss that over as it's just as bad as the folks who are broken records about the 3 hits.

 

He's got a massive uphill battle to fight through both that ^^^, and the depth we've added pushing him closer to the edge of the roster. We're highly unlikely to waive a younger, cheaper, more valuable player to keep him and that doesn't even include a guy like Goldobin, Gaudette, MacEwan, Bailey etc pushing for a spot either. He's FAR from anything resembling a secured roster spot and there's pretty clear reasons for that.

Edited September 4, 2019 by aGENT