StealthNuck

Loui Eriksson | #21 | LW/RW

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1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

For my money, I think our best bet is to try to add penalty killing to Virtanen's game and leave it at that. I think him plus Motte/Pearson/Eriksson should hold us over alright until Roussel returns. Who knows, maybe Jake will become the next Matt Cooke of scoring shorties!

 

Yup (minus the Eriksson:P). Between Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Pearson, adding Virtanen and having the likes of Miller, Horvat, Leivo able to fill in here and there, and eventually Roussel coming back, well be just fine IMO.

 

How many players do we think are on these PK units anyway?:lol:

 

It's simply not enough of a need to warrant losing a younger, cheaper, more valuable (and arguably better moving forward) player for.

 

If he wants to be on the starting roster, he's going to have to do a HELL of a lot more than be a good PK'er. He's going to have to CLEARLY be the better player in MULTIPLE situations. I'm not holding my breath.

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4 hours ago, AK_19 said:

I was disappointed that we didn't try out Virtanen on the PK last year. I can see him having a PK-style like Grabner with off the rush break-aways 

How can I say this without sounding like I'm criticizing JV - PK is one of the responsibilities on a team that requires above average 'hockey-sense'.  Speed alone - which JV has there's no doubt - won't in and of itself make a good PK guy.  I don't think anyone can objectively question any of the physical 'hockey-tools' that JV brings to the rink each night - his biggest criticism has always been 'hockey sense' so I can see whey he's not getting a lot of PK duty. 

 

That said, would I rather have someone like JV try his butt off on the PK rather than someone like LE, who has the hockey sense but lacks effort......well, that's another story:). 

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51 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

How can I say this without sounding like I'm criticizing JV - PK is one of the responsibilities on a team that requires above average 'hockey-sense'.  Speed alone - which JV has there's no doubt - won't in and of itself make a good PK guy.  I don't think anyone can objectively question any of the physical 'hockey-tools' that JV brings to the rink each night - his biggest criticism has always been 'hockey sense' so I can see whey he's not getting a lot of PK duty. 

 

That said, would I rather have someone like JV try his butt off on the PK rather than someone like LE, who has the hockey sense but lacks effort......well, that's another story:). 

Lack of effort and being smart positionally (generally something players with good hockey sense can do) is a fine line. If you can read the play well, why run around burning energy when you accomplish the same goal in the end? Not really defending LE here, but I think the lacks effort argument for LE doesn't hold much water IMO.

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57 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

 Not really defending LE here, but I think the lacks effort argument for LE doesn't hold much water IMO.

Ask yourself this question - if LE had the same stats he's had over his 3 years here - but was unequivocally one of - if not THE - hardest working guy on the team night in/night out - would he be subject to the same levels of criticism here and in the general media?  My guess is he would still be considered overpaid, but people would be happy he was working hard every single shift in order to make up for his lack of scoring.  Sadly, imo, he's done neither while he's been here - work harder than everyone else or score that is. 

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14 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Ask yourself this question - if LE had the same stats he's had over his 3 years here - but was unequivocally one of - if not THE - hardest working guy on the team night in/night out - would he be subject to the same levels of criticism here and in the general media?  My guess is he would still be considered overpaid, but people would be happy he was working hard every single shift in order to make up for his lack of scoring.  Sadly, imo, he's done neither while he's been here - work harder than everyone else or score that is. 

I think he absolutely would be criticized in the same manner because at the end of the day, he's being paid 6 million dollars to score, not skate around like a mad man. This "lack of effort" is simply people trying to find excuses to send him to the minors. Bottom line is he is an overpaid player for what he provides whatever it may be. He's proven that he's one of the better PK guys on the team and strangely enough this is because of the exact reason you brought up in why Virtanen shouldn't be on the PK. LE has the hockey sense to be positionally sound and thus being able to take on a "bottom 6" role unlike players like Lucic or Okposo who provide little else when their scoring dries up.

 

I've watched many "lazy" players and I don't think LE fits that criteria. So he only three 3 hits or whatever last season, Lucic led his team in hits and people are still saying he's one of the "worst players in the NHL". So LE simply doesn't play a style that people want to see and he's either snakebitten or simply has lost his hands, but that is not due to a lack of effort. People undervalue defensive play all the time and this seems to be no different.

 

Again, not defending LE here as I don't think he's worth his contract at all, but it's simply that he's paid to be a top 6 offensive forward and he isn't providing that. He shouldn't have made his comment to the media and that just added more fuel to the already raging fire, but that's likely stemming from from the fact that if they expect him to score more, then he needs to be put with players that can produce. He simply isn't a driver of the offense, but believes he is a good complementary piece. Hard to say if I agree with him or not, but he certainly hasn't been in a top 6 role for very long aside from the declining Sedins and a short stint with EP where he was indeed putting up numbers before trying to spark BB and bumping him off the line.

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On 9/2/2019 at 1:15 PM, aGENT said:

If he brought ANYTHING else to the table... sure.

 

Between Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Leivo, Pearson, Horvat, Virtanen, Roussel when he's back, Miller etc, etc I'm pretty sure we can fill out a couple competent PK squads. Eriksson or not.

 

Eriksson's got an up hill battle to show he's worth a roster spot over younger, cheaper, more valuable players.

He can mentor our boys in Utica

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2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

How can I say this without sounding like I'm criticizing JV - PK is one of the responsibilities on a team that requires above average 'hockey-sense'.  Speed alone - which JV has there's no doubt - won't in and of itself make a good PK guy.  I don't think anyone can objectively question any of the physical 'hockey-tools' that JV brings to the rink each night - his biggest criticism has always been 'hockey sense' so I can see whey he's not getting a lot of PK duty. 

 

That said, would I rather have someone like JV try his butt off on the PK rather than someone like LE, who has the hockey sense but lacks effort......well, that's another story:). 

Hockey sense is more complicated than that. When JV is criticized for hockey sense, it's because he has a lack of sense of what to do in the offensive zone. He is one of our least creative players and doesn't know how to use his line mates. I see no issues with hockey sense with defensive situations. The reason I use Grabner is because they actually are remarkably similar players. Neither have particularly good offensive hockey IQ or use their linemates particularly well which is largely irrelevant on the PK anyways. I'd argue Virtanen is already better defensively than Grabner was at the same age. Merely having Virtanen out there makes other teams more hesitant to play aggressively because of his speed. 

 

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3 hours ago, Fanuck said:

How can I say this without sounding like I'm criticizing JV - PK is one of the responsibilities on a team that requires above average 'hockey-sense'.  Speed alone - which JV has there's no doubt - won't in and of itself make a good PK guy.  I don't think anyone can objectively question any of the physical 'hockey-tools' that JV brings to the rink each night - his biggest criticism has always been 'hockey sense' so I can see whey he's not getting a lot of PK duty. 

 

That said, would I rather have someone like JV try his butt off on the PK rather than someone like LE, who has the hockey sense but lacks effort......well, that's another story:). 

Conversely, maybe the PK helps Virtanen cultivate a better hockey sense defensively. I read this post and thought back to playing hockey as a kid, and how working the PK taught me a lot about being defensively aware and positionally sound. Bit of a risk to put someone on the PK because you think it will help their game. Maybe it hurts you a bit short term, but it might actually make Virtanen a better overall player.

 

Aside from that though, JV has the physical tools to be a great PK'er, obviously. The speed, the physicality, and he does have a knack for takeaways. Would be great if we were to turn him into a sound PK'er.

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I would love to see Virtanen and Pettersson on the same PK unit. 

It would bring back memories of Bure,  Russ Courtnall and Mogilny on penalty-killing where the opposition were scared to cross the offensive blue line for fear of being burned on a takeaway / breakaway

And Jake led the team on takeaways last season, and who better to finish with a shortie that Petey?

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5 minutes ago, Googlie said:

I would love to see Virtanen and Pettersson on the same PK unit. 

It would bring back memories of Bure,  Russ Courtnall and Mogilny on penalty-killing where the opposition were scared to cross the offensive blue line for fear of being burned on a takeaway / breakaway

And Jake led the team on takeaways last season, and who better to finish with a shortie that Petey?

Jake yes for sure.  Petey a definite no.  The fewer shots Petey blocks the better.  Plus, I like to see his minutes in the O zone.  

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31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Jake yes for sure.  Petey a definite no.  The fewer shots Petey blocks the better.  Plus, I like to see his minutes in the O zone.  

What about if we're down a goal in the third though?  Petey wants to be a 200 foot player.  If he's up for it, I'm all for teaching him, but picking our spots as to when he's utilized.

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34 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Jake yes for sure.  Petey a definite no.  The fewer shots Petey blocks the better.  Plus, I like to see his minutes in the O zone.  

I think Petey will block shots whether he's on the PK or not. It's not unheard of to have offensive stars on the PK, so I wouldn't totally balk at the idea.

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2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

What about if we're down a goal in the third though?  Petey wants to be a 200 foot player.  If he's up for it, I'm all for teaching him, but picking our spots as to when he's utilized.

 

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

I think Petey will block shots whether he's on the PK or not. It's not unheard of to have offensive stars on the PK, so I wouldn't totally balk at the idea.

Petey is a great player.  He’d quickly become our best forward PK guy.  Still don’t want him doing PK.  

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Just now, Alflives said:

 

Petey is a great player.  He’d quickly become our best forward PK guy.  Still don’t want him doing PK.  

So critical situation late in a playoff game, you still wouldn't want our best PK guy out there?  No one is suggesting he takes a regular PK shift in meaningless games.  Mario Lemieux killed penalties with all his health problems.

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Just now, King Heffy said:

So critical situation late in a playoff game, you still wouldn't want our best PK guy out there?  No one is suggesting he takes a regular PK shift in meaningless games.  Mario Lemieux killed penalties with all his health problems.

Petey is on the ice is all critical playoff situations.  For sure.  Regular season games on the PK ... no way.  

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Petey is on the ice is all critical playoff situations.  For sure.  Regular season games on the PK ... no way.  

You don't get him to that level without in-game experience though.  For a guy as talented as EP40, I think he should be allowed to make his own decision.

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20 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

You don't get him to that level without in-game experience though.  For a guy as talented as EP40, I think he should be allowed to make his own decision.

I would not want him blocking shots either better served providing offence.

 

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20 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

I would not want him blocking shots either better served providing offence.

 

If Petey is willing to do so to help the team, I respect Green's judgement as to what is actually best for the team.  When your best player is willing to sacrifice his body to win, it makes the rest of the team work that little bit harder.

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9 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

If Petey is willing to do so to help the team, I respect Green's judgement as to what is actually best for the team.  When your best player is willing to sacrifice his body to win, it makes the rest of the team work that little bit harder.

thats true, Petey's desire to be a complete player was on display last year. He wasn't hurt doing any of that, only by douchey moves on him. It may have contributed to him losing some steam at the end of the year but my guess is he will come to camp in great shape.

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