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springer

Sedins and some perspective...

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A little bit of perspective helps clarify reality.

 

The 'Nucks got mercilessly and absolutely hammered by injuries last season. Of course it changed the outcome.

 

Only two of 'em played 82 games: Bo Horvat and Daniel Sediin.

 

Daniel finished the season with 28 goals and 33 assists, 61 points.

 

Henrik played 74 games...many while injured...and racked up 11 goals and 44 assists, 55 points.

 

Don't sound like a couple of guys past their prime to me.

 

Take a look at the signings yesterday. How many of them matched those kinds of stats? Truth be told, darn few...and we managed to sign one of the very few who did.

 

Every season the two of them show up to camp in top physical condition, despite their age, and put the heat on players a helluva lot younger to try and keep up with them!

 

Don't kid yourselves, a lot of teams envy the 'Nucks good fortune to have two players of this caliber.

 

And BTW, while speaking of perspective...

 

Highest shot percentage on the team...by far...at 18.8%? That would be Jannik Hansen. That stat puts him up there with some of the best in the league...most of whom make probably double the money he does!

 

Just sayin'...

 

 

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Too good to be bad enough.

 

True Hansen got goals and a good shooting percentage last year, playing with the Sedins.

 

There is so much disconnect with this management group, LE just got put on the PP, PK and with the Sedins. I kinda wondered as I heard this, what does the coach think or do for that matter.

 

It seems fairly obvious to me that management is looking to give the Sedins another two year extension, no big deal there but there is a big hope, their heir apparent's are already on board. That would mean bottoming out in 2018.

 

Should the team put another 6 miliion dollar man out there blocking shots? Is that really a good idea? Benning seems to think so.

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Haven't the Sedins been declining for the last several years? That's what I keep reading on CDC...

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10 minutes ago, Dral said:

Haven't the Sedins been declining for the last several years? That's what I keep reading on CDC...

Yes, declined from "world class elite" to merely "extremely good, with random bursts of awesomeness".

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Dral said:

Haven't the Sedins been declining for the last several years? That's what I keep reading on CDC...

 

Yup, that and "every other team in the division just got a lot better but we did nothing." Or one of my favourites, "Edmonton is going to be a dynasty soon ... I swear". 

 

It's the same chicken little, fear-mongering crap every year by a relatively small set of posters. Life must scare them immensely. 

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1 minute ago, Remy said:

 

Yup, that and "every other team in the division just got a lot better but we did nothing." Or one of my favourites, "Edmonton is going to be a dynasty soon ... I swear". 

 

It's the same chicken little, fear-mongering crap every year by a relatively small set of posters. Life must scare them immensely. 

Yeah like the Canucks were this feared Powerhouse of the league

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i don't see our first line, being replaced by young players for at least 2 more years...they are leaders as well as being able to handle the pressures and load...

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Since 2011 (after our cup run)

 

Total Points:                  2011   2012   2013   2014   2015

 

Henrik Sedin                  81       45       50        73       55

Anze Kopitar                  76       42       70        64       74

Jonathan Toews            57       48        68        66       58

 

Hank was injured last year so his point production was lower than normal, but he was still only 3 points less than Toews and Toews played 80 games.  Over the last 5 years Hank has 7 more points overall than Toews.  Not bad for a 35 year old versus a 28 year old who plays with Patrick Kane.

 

With Eriksson in the fold I see Hank getting back to his 2014 totals at the very least, which is in the 75 point range.  That would be higher than any point totals Toews has put up in his entire career other than one year where he got 76, which still  makes Hank a #1 centre.  

 

Like it or not the Sedins are here to stay for awhile.  There is no replacement for either one currently in our lineup or in the minors or in Junior.  With the acquisition of Eriksson I can see their careers being extended at least a couple years.  I don't think they signed Eriksson to only play with them for 2 years.  We are building our team around the Sedins right now, filling up all the other weak spots, specifically on defense and in goal, and our second and third lines.

 

Our defense and goaltending are pretty much set now with the additions of Demko and Juolevi.  I don't see a need for any more upgrading.  In fact, if guys like Tryamkin, Stecher and Brisebois step up we could be looking at being able to offload Edler and maybe even Tanev in the next 2 years to add to the forward group.

 

With Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Baertschi and the SEL Line, we should be fine for a few years up front.  We just need to add some more sandpaper to the forward group.  I expect JB to add another gritty forward into the mix by training camp.  We have some chips to bargain with.  We"ll see what happens.

 

But as I said the Sedins look to be locked in for longer than the two years left on their contract,  I wouldn't be surprised if they sign a 2 year extension next summer for less dollars and continue to lead this team for a few more seasons.  We are not tanking folks.  If you want to watch a team tank then follow another team, this one isn't doing it.  I can see us loading up for another cup run with the Sedins leading the way, while still adding to our youth and integrating Boeser, Demko, Stecher and other young guns into the team at the same time.  It's a rebuild on the fly, that's what they've chosen, they are not going to gut the team like Toronto.  I guess we will find out soon enough if they've made the right choice.

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10 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

i don't see our first line, being replaced by young players for at least 2 more years...they are leaders as well as being able to handle the pressures and load...

Haha, I always get a kick out of those ignoramuses who say 'the Sedins are only second liners now' or 'we should give the younger players (eg Horvat, Baertschi...) first line minutes and move the Sedins to the second line'.  As if simply calling them the second line would make them the second line! :)

 

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I think we'll have at least 4 more years from the Sedins. They're still extremely fit and competitive. They said they would wait for other players to take over the top line, but I don't see that happening anytime soon, especially with Eriksson here now. This move could give them a second wind to their careers. The Sedins continue to lead the team in points and I think the SEL line will be really fun to watch this season. With our boosted D, and Markstrom ready to show why he's our new starter, the Canucks will have a pretty good team.

 

Not only that, the Sedins and Eriksson are playing together at the World Cup tournament in September. That's an advantage other top lines in the league don't have. Instant chemistry to start the season.

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4 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Too good to be bad enough.

 

True Hansen got goals and a good shooting percentage last year, playing with the Sedins.

 

There is so much disconnect with this management group, LE just got put on the PP, PK and with the Sedins. I kinda wondered as I heard this, what does the coach think or do for that matter.

 

It seems fairly obvious to me that management is looking to give the Sedins another two year extension, no big deal there but there is a big hope, their heir apparent's are already on board. That would mean bottoming out in 2018.

 

Should the team put another 6 miliion dollar man out there blocking shots? Is that really a good idea? Benning seems to think so.

I really don't get what you are laying down here.  "Too good to be bad enough" seems to imply that you are part of team tank.  I can't stand the concept of wanting to be bad on purpose just to get a chance at a prospect.  Enough of this loserism (coined a new word just now).

 

The message from management is loud and clear, we want to win as much as possible, now and going forward.  I like that.  And it also fits with their actions.  Loui was brought on board, despite his age, and despite the overall desire to get younger, to try to win now.  Just because he is well rounded and good enough defensively to play in every situation doesn't mean that he was brought in just to block shots.  We have lots of guys who can play the PK.  Maybe he'll get some time there too but his main job is to help win games on the offensive side and get the Sedins going again (without being a defensive liability).  I like that too.  And he is versatile enough to play on any line and in any situation.

 

"Bottoming out in 2018", say what?  There is no intention whatsoever of that and no indication that that is going to happen.  They are structuring to win now without hurting their chances of winning later as well.  I think you've been drinking too much of the TSN Kool-aid and hyperbole.  It doesn't have to be all or none.  We can win now and win later, as long as we stick to a winning attitude.

 

Developing a culture of good character and trying to win every game we play is the goal and as far as I'm concerned I not only like that in theory, I think they are actually doing it.  There are many ways of getting the pieces for a winning team but tanking is not a good one (look how well that has worked for Edmonton).  Benning is leaving no stone unturned and bringing in lots of competition for roster spots.  It's not only about the individual players it's about building a competitive winning culture and I like that too.  It's a team game, it's not all about star power (though of course we need good players too).

 

Enough with the "woe is us" loserism culture.  We can win with what we have if we really want to and if we stop whining about what we don't have.  And even if we can't win all the time or win the cup instantly we have to try.  Confidence is a big part of winning and if we lose that it doesn't matter who we bring on board.  GCG!

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1 hour ago, yes we can nucks said:

Haha, I always get a kick out of those ignoramuses who say 'the Sedins are only second liners now' or 'we should give the younger players (eg Horvat, Baertschi...) first line minutes and move the Sedins to the second line'.  As if simply calling them the second line would make them the second line! :)

 

Well, it kind of does work that way.  Yes, the naming is arbitrary.  But 99 times out of 100, the first line gets the most minutes.

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I said this in another post but Ill say it again. I believe we will have one more shot at the cup with the Sedins. I am very satisfied with the additions Benning has aquired this off season. Believe it or not I think we are a couple pieces away from being very competitive again as long as the team stays healthy.

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3 hours ago, springer said:

A little bit of perspective helps clarify reality.

 

The 'Nucks got mercilessly and absolutely hammered by injuries last season. Of course it changed the outcome.

 

Only two of 'em played 82 games: Bo Horvat and Daniel Sediin.

 

Daniel finished the season with 28 goals and 33 assists, 61 points.

 

Henrik played 74 games...many while injured...and racked up 11 goals and 44 assists, 55 points.

 

Don't sound like a couple of guys past their prime to me.

 

Take a look at the signings yesterday. How many of them matched those kinds of stats? Truth be told, darn few...and we managed to sign one of the very few who did.

 

Every season the two of them show up to camp in top physical condition, despite their age, and put the heat on players a helluva lot younger to try and keep up with them!

 

Don't kid yourselves, a lot of teams envy the 'Nucks good fortune to have two players of this caliber.

 

And BTW, while speaking of perspective...

 

Highest shot percentage on the team...by far...at 18.8%? That would be Jannik Hansen. That stat puts him up there with some of the best in the league...most of whom make probably double the money he does!

 

Just sayin'...

 

 

Yeah when point per game players score at 0.75 points per game or worse for a whole season.... They haven't declined at all.. I concur. In no way are they at 35 past their primes.... That would be ludicrous right? Their prime probably ends at like 42 years old. They will probably be 2nd liners until they are 46.

 

And don't even think of stating any nonsense about linemates..... They've never had an elite linemate... Eriksson could in fact be the best they've ever had. They've always produced with a 2nd liner or worse on their wing.... Last year they did still produce, but not like in their PRIME...

 

Not past their prime at 35... Do you even watch sports?

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Not sure why people keep thinking once the Sedins retire that we will bottom out

 

Eventually one or two of our draft picks will become consistent producers, maybe not on the Sedins level, but steady enough. 

 

Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Bear, Erickson and a few sleepers should be able to reach their potential. Remember the Sedins and Kesler took 5 years to develop into elite players. Unless you get lucky and we somehow win a draft lottery where there is a true stud, then there is no point in tanking. Until then, lets just enjoy the ride while we got the Twins! 

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2 minutes ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

Not sure why people keep thinking once the Sedins retire that we will bottom out

 

Eventually one or two of our draft picks will become consistent producers, maybe not on the Sedins level, but steady enough. 

 

Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Bear, Erickson and a few sleepers should be able to reach their potential. Remember the Sedins and Kesler took 5 years to develop into elite players. Unless you get lucky and we somehow win a draft lottery where there is a true stud, then there is no point in tanking. Until then, lets just enjoy the ride while we got the Twins! 

Well I think it's very likely that we bottom out.... Why do you think that we wouldn't? So your contention is that we will have a couple prospects develop and not match their production but mitigate their loss... We were the third worst team in the NHL last year.... And we were one of (or actually??) the WORST goal scoring teams in the league last year.... Guess what? The Sedins were like the only ones who weren't a problem in that regard. We are a one line team. When that one line goes... what are we? We are a zero line team. How can you have a zero line team and expect success? It's just not realistic. Sure our prospects will develop, but it looks like Boeser is the only one with 1st line upside. Which is nice... Nobody is complaining about that, but we need MORE....

 

IF for example, we took last years team... removed the Sedins... I think we make Toronto look really good, even though they were tanking. That team would get shut out at least 30 times in a season. Like I'm not joking... Because their best matchup defenders, wouldn't defend the Sedins anymore. It would be an NHL record low for goals scored. If your team is that flawed, surely you need a rebuild. Patchwork signings like Eriksson just don't do enough.

 

What you must also not misunderstand is that people who are pro-rebuild for the Canucks don't hate our prospects... And while they aren't finished developing, we accept the consensus about their ceilings as probable and base our assumptions on that... By doing that, we have come to the conclusion we just need MORE prospects of the caliber we already have... And maybe 1 or 2 of a higher caliber. Because, if we don't get those prospects, you have to consider... What happens if we start a rebuild 3 years from now? How old is Horvat? How old will Virtanen be? How old will Boeser be? Baertschi? Then how long will the rebuild take? How old will they all be then? How much longer will we have them for after a rebuild in terms of productive years? And what is their salary like? There is a HUGE loss of efficiency when we are paying these players 5-7 million a year, heading into the back side of their prime... When we finally get the prospect depth surging through... It'll be too late at that point. It's such a waste of prospects that pro-rebuild Canucks fans actually LIKE, and would like to see them win a cup in Vancouver... But that won't happen without a rebuild, and a rebuild that occurs pretty much now.

 

I'm willing to state, at risk of being wrong, that Horvat, Virtanen, Baertschi, and probably more, will NEVER win a cup in Vancouver, if by next offseason we aren't rebuilding. The only way I see that happening is if we win the lottery next year.... And if that player is special. Not likely though.

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12 minutes ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

Not sure why people keep thinking once the Sedins retire that we will bottom out

 

Eventually one or two of our draft picks will become consistent producers, maybe not on the Sedins level, but steady enough. 

 

Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Bear, Erickson and a few sleepers should be able to reach their potential. Remember the Sedins and Kesler took 5 years to develop into elite players. Unless you get lucky and we somehow win a draft lottery where there is a true stud, then there is no point in tanking. Until then, lets just enjoy the ride while we got the Twins! 

I clearly remember that there was lots of howling during their sophomore year the Sedins were obviously a bust and should be traded post haste!

 

A Gretsky, Crosby or McDavid only come along about once every ten years...if at all.

 

We've got some great young talent in the cue, some of whom, given half a chance, will turn into good players for the Canucks...assuming they don't get traded away first, eh?

 

 

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I said this yesterday, getting Eriksson will allow the Sedins to play at their full potential (or beyond) to maximize their skills and natural talent.

 

Think about it. They've still been producing top numbers without a guy like Eriksson on their wing.

 

The last three years the Sedins have looked more frustrated than anything else. And I don't think that's an age related factor either. Between the Torts season, getting bounced from the playoffs, the lackluster powerplay, and Willie's constant line shuffling, it just seemed like the Sedins have been frustrated. Yet they still produce. Eriksson should relieve any frustration they may feel, knowing they can rely on him as a linemate. I'm thinking they'll likely feel more free as a top line.

 

These guys are going to push each other to be great, which will raise the bar for everyone else. They've already got winning chemistry. 

 

As far as the Sedins go, it's not going to get any better than this for the remainder of their time here. Eriksson will only rejuvenate the twins.

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