Is Black Lives Matter a 'hate group' or 'terrorist organization'?

[Jimayo]

On 2016-08-23 at 9:44 AM, Red Light Racicot said:

 

the BLM demonstrators that clamoured for the blood of police officers.

That is a flat out lie.  The protestors were among those who tried to help the police and some shielded others from the shooter.

 

This is why I am so hostile towards you.  You are liars who are trying to paint good people as the bad guys because the truth is, you are racists who seek an excuse to denigrate an organisation of black people.  Nothing more.

[Jimayo]

On 2016-08-23 at 3:50 PM, Ryan Strome said:

You are absolutely correct, we never hear the millions of stories of police officers helping or saving lives. We only hear about the few bad stories and yes they're bad and should be handled accordingly. Sadly it seems all cops get blamed for a few bad apples.

It's not just a few bad apples.  Any cop who covers up for the so called few bad apples is guilty of obstruction.  Any one who participates in the blue wall of silence is a crook.

[Canada Hockey Place]

I believe there are 2 misconceptions in this thread. 

 

1. Some people may not be aware that a movement does not always mean there is an organization or group in charge. BLM is a "is a decentralized network and has no formal hierarchy."  Thus grouping them all together is akin to grouping all Canucks fans together and calling us all rioters.  

2. "Our Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter" was shortened to #BlackLivesMatter. That became the name of the movement. It's a slogan. Like "Beautiful British Columbia". If all the other provinces take offence thinking we're calling them less beautiful... that's their problem for being insecure losers. 

 

 

[Curmudgeon]

On 2016-07-12 at 9:21 PM, SamJamIam said:

I think it's most telling that the people who have the strongest opinions about BLM are either:

 

1) Black people who think there are systematic, unjustified killings that go un-investigated, and

2) White people who think their perspective of these issues is equally if not more valid than that of group 1

 

The arrogance astounds me.

Wholeheartedly agree, but it's not just the arrogance that is astounding; it is also the ignorance and the lame attempts at justification of a viewpoint based in that ignorance. The cold, hard truth is that nobody who is not black can have the faintest idea of what it is like to grow up as a black person within a predominantly white majority. Further, to say that I am east Asian and my people were treated horribly but we survived, or that I am South Asian and the police target our young men, too, or to say the white culture has been screwing over we First Nations peoples is not a valid argument. It is a false equivalence, and the premise is wrong because the black experience is not equivalent to anyone else's.

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

2 hours ago, Jimayo said:

It's not just a few bad apples.  Any cop who covers up for the so called few bad apples is guilty of obstruction.  Any one who participates in the blue wall of silence is a crook.

Well absolutely but I was just implying the number of terrible cops compared to the number of good cops is very small.  I think we all generalise a little when discussing the police.

[Red Light Racicot]

2 hours ago, Jimayo said:

That is a flat out lie.  The protestors were among those who tried to help the police and some shielded others from the shooter.

BLM is not a monolithic entity, and while some of their members value diplomacy, others most certainly have been clamouring for the blood of police officers. The dramatically plummeting support for BLM you're seeing as a consequence of this kind of thing is the easiest thing to explain ever.

 

Quote

This is why I am so hostile towards you.  You are liars who are trying to paint good people as the bad guys because the truth is, you are racists who seek an excuse to denigrate an organisation of black people.  Nothing more.

You are dead wrong and out of line conflating criticism of BLM with racism towards black people in general. They have done a great deal to earn our contempt for reasons that are completely irrelevant.

 

Also, does that mean these guys are racist against black people?

 

 

I could find many more examples like this (I mean that alone was part one out of a fourteen part series)

 

I have found that this is where, almost overwhelmingly, the more rational voices are coming from on this topic.

[Jimayo]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

Well absolutely but I was just implying the number of terrible cops compared to the number of good cops is very small.  I think we all generalise a little when discussing the police.

Except it isn't.  Few cops are willing to arrest a corrupt cop.  It almost never happens.

[Jimayo]

And red light, I guess you think sam jackson's character in Django Unchained was totally right.  Cause uncles tom's aren't a thing in your racist &^@#ing world.

[clam linguine]

2 hours ago, Jimayo said:

And red light, I guess you think sam jackson's character in Django Unchained was totally right.  Cause uncles tom's aren't a thing in your racist &^@#ing world.

Look.....Black lives already matter here.   If you don't agree, indicate a more hospitable country.

[Alflives]

All I can add to this stupidity is the acronym BM.  It expands to Bowel Movement.  I figured it fit this thread and all the stupid hatred of one another.

[Realtor Rod]

53 minutes ago, Jimayo said:

Except it isn't.  Few cops are willing to arrest a corrupt cop.  It almost never happens.

The same way drug dealers don't turn on each other. It's a family and they don't turn on each other. I know it isn't right but the first number people call when they are in trouble is still the police. 

[McIlhargey the Lesser]

It became a hate group when in Toronto they hijacked another marginalized group's platform (gay pride parade). Sure, in the US there was a need for this type of group (albeit with much better leadership and organization), but to hijack a gay pride event when in the world being gay is so much more dangerous in so many more countries (death penalty in most Muslim countries) shows lack of insight and a form of reverse racism (to suggest that black issues of the US are more important than other marginalized groups everywhere). Sheer idiocy.

And they completely lost it when the leadership in the US blamed Israel for the deaths of blacks in the US. The only democracy in the Middle East. The only country in the Middle East that hosts gay pride parades. A country that has Jews and Muslims in parliament. A country whose Supreme Court forced Jerusalem to have a gay pride parade despite religious intolerance from all sides. Tell me that's not racist against Jews.

Whereas they may have been justified in their beginnings, they have cemented themselves as hateful idiots following hateful idiots. Reverse racism is still racism.

 

Forgot to mention that in the 90s Israel covertly airlifted thousands of persecuted black Jews and non-Jews (pretending to be Jewish) out of Ethiopia. So, yeah, Israel clearly hates blacks.

This train has definitely been derailed and lost all credibility.

[RUPERTKBD]

13 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Well absolutely but I was just implying the number of terrible cops compared to the number of good cops is very small.  I think we all generalise a little when discussing the police.

Agreed. The problem is that when these incidents occur, law enforcement "circles the wagons" so to speak, around the bad apples instead of treating them like any other suspect of a crime. The good cops become bad cops by association, when they show support and/or do whatever they can to ensure that the bad cop doesn't have to answer for his crime 

 

It further exacerbates the feelings of marginalization among blacks, when they watch a Republican rally and hear the cheers, when it is announced that one of these "bad cops" has been completely exonerated.

 

I'm really not sure how anyone can see what happens in American society and not agree that people are treated differently by both law enforcement and the judicial system, based on the color of their skin.

[etsen3]

17 hours ago, Canada Hockey Place said:

I believe there are 2 misconceptions in this thread. 

 

1. Some people may not be aware that a movement does not always mean there is an organization or group in charge. BLM is a "is a decentralized network and has no formal hierarchy."  Thus grouping them all together is akin to grouping all Canucks fans together and calling us all rioters.  

2. "Our Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter" was shortened to #BlackLivesMatter. That became the name of the movement. It's a slogan. Like "Beautiful British Columbia". If all the other provinces take offence thinking we're calling them less beautiful... that's their problem for being insecure losers. 

 

 

This is a good point, Black Lives Matter blurs the lines between "an easily defined group of activists" and "an "idea/slogan".  It's not a formal group as much as a catchy concept used by just about everyone pushing for justice reform to varying extents.  You can't really categorize them as a hate group because the slogan is used by many people for many purposes.  Some small groups people have organized themselves under that slogan to do things that I don't agree with, but that does not invalidate or delegitimize the goal of criminal justice reform.  It's not the job of activists to "prove themselves" or "earn our respect" before we can talk about change.  Equal rights are automatically granted to everyone., it's the job of those in power to ensure that.  When those in power fail to do that, we get people calling attention to it.

[Red Light Racicot]

14 hours ago, Jimayo said:

And red light, I guess you think sam jackson's character in Django Unchained was totally right.  Cause uncles tom's aren't a thing in your racist &^@#ing world

Uncle Toms how? By what possible standard?

 

If you took a moment to listen to those guys you'd learn that they want black people to stop killing each other, and that they think "Black lives matter" should mean, among other things, that black people make an effort to improve their own communities. Novel idea right?

 

BLM on the other hand thinks threats and indiscriminatory violence is the solution. "Black lives matter" ergo let's make unrealistic demands no one could possibly live up to, threaten and kill police/people with a different skin colour.

 

It's obvious who is making more sense here.

[Red Light Racicot]

18 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Wholeheartedly agree, but it's not just the arrogance that is astounding; it is also the ignorance and the lame attempts at justification of a viewpoint based in that ignorance. The cold, hard truth is that nobody who is not black can have the faintest idea of what it is like to grow up as a black person within a predominantly white majority. Further, to say that I am east Asian and my people were treated horribly but we survived, or that I am South Asian and the police target our young men, too, or to say the white culture has been screwing over we First Nations peoples is not a valid argument. It is a false equivalence, and the premise is wrong because the black experience is not equivalent to anyone else's.

 

 

Do you have the faintest idea what it is like to be a cop, an extremely dangerous and chronically under appreciated profession?

 

To have a hateful stereotype projected onto your entire profession because a handful of cops abuse their power? 

 

You're trying to protect the lives of these people, and you get this in return? Consider that.

[canuckster19]

15 hours ago, Jimayo said:

And red light, I guess you think sam jackson's character in Django Unchained was totally right.  Cause uncles tom's aren't a thing in your racist &^@#ing world.

Groupthink, yay, shame on anyone who breaks the mold. I guess you must be really pissed off at a guy like Marshall Mathers, I mean a white guy making himself the most successful brand in a style of music traditional associated with black culture. The horror, that must be the epitome of white racism right there.

[Curmudgeon]

1 hour ago, Red Light Racicot said:

Do you have the faintest idea what it is like to be a cop, an extremely dangerous and chronically under appreciated profession?

 

To have a hateful stereotype projected onto your entire profession because a handful of cops abuse their power? 

 

You're trying to protect the lives of these people, and you get this in return? Consider that.

Again with a false equivalence. You are comparing the treatment or attitude towards police as being the same as the treatment of black people by the police. Even if there was some sort of equivalence, there really isn't for two inescapable reasons: 1) the police have firearms, and 2) the police have the authority of the law they can use to justify any kind of action against whatever they feel to be a threat. In the USA, blacks are disproportionately singled out for police attention. By any metric, that is a fact. But don't take my word for it; read any or all the following three articles:

 

http://www.salon.com/2016/07/14/sorry_conservatives_new_research_from_harvard_shows_a_profound_amount_of_racism_by_policenot_less_of_it/

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562077/police-racism-implicit-bias

 

This is a complicated issue with all kinds of moving parts, but as I see it, the Black Lives Matter movement is about two things; making everyone aware of the impact of race in the questionable actions of police officers, and 2) organizing for political power. As for the wackos who take up guns themselves and pick off policemen, they are no more representative of the BLM movement than a suicide bomber represents mainstream Islam.

 

And yes, it is difficult to be a police officer and some people have a tendency to tar all of them with the same brush, but if you think about it, some people tend to tar just about every profession with the same brush. There are people who think all lawyers are slimy crooks, all teachers are lazy and overpaid, all accountants are boring nerds, all hockey players are solid citizens and role models for kids, all Russian athletes are on PEDs, all doctors care only about their money, and so on. At the end of the day, it is inaccurate and unfair to imply that all police officers mistreat black people, but that doesn't change the fact that blacks are proportionately more likely to be hassled by police than white people.

 

[SamJamIam]

3 hours ago, Red Light Racicot said:

Do you have the faintest idea what it is like to be a cop, an extremely dangerous and chronically under appreciated profession?

 

To have a hateful stereotype projected onto your entire profession because a handful of cops abuse their power? 

 

You're trying to protect the lives of these people, and you get this in return? Consider that.

"Protect and serve" is not contingent on the gratitude of those one has vowed to serve.

 

A message to any cop who actually thinks like this: If you need perpetual gratitude to be a good cop, you're a $&!# cop and you should get a new job. Your vacancy will do a better job than the inevitable douchebaggery you feel you're entitled to.

[logic]

I don't see how promoting black only zones and what not is a step forward, if anything singular groups like this promotes more difference and segregation than it does unity.