WHY CANT "CANUCKS FANS" SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE!!!!

[coastal1]

21 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said:

More so Acquilinis refusing to rebuild than Benning. This team needs a rebuild.

 

Anyways Jim is a good GM at drafting. Boeser, Juolevi and Demko are nice picks, but none are franchise changing talents. They should all be good players (IMO Boeser ends up like a Okposo, Juolevi a good #2, Demko a legit starter).

 

Jim hasn't done too much wrong other than picking Virtanen too high.  Columbus has far worse management as far as I'm concerned. Avs as well.  

Way too early to know if picking Boeser, Juolevi and Demko was good drafting or not. That is a discussion for 5 years from now.

[coastal1]

13 hours ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

 

The guy has guts and takes on heavyweights twice his size on a regular basis because nobody else on the team is willing to do so. He also skates well, gets in on the forecheck, can kill penalties and is a great locker room guy. He is also one of the few who is always in scrums and will get in the opponents face. 

 

You probably do not watch the full games, must rely on highlights for your opinions on the team. 

is a great locker room guy. "See, most of us don't have that knowledge, because what goes on in the dressing room, stays in the dressing room. So tells us, what have you seen when you were in the dressing room? As for taking on guys twice his size, all it shows is that he is careless about his head which will come back to haunt him later. Does getting beaten up by a bigger guy really does something positive for the team?? Who would you say his Dorsett's equivalent on say SJS or Pittsburgh?

[GettinGuddyWithIt]

6 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said:

Once again, I define franchise changing as a McDavid, Eichel, Matthews Ekblad. Do you see any of our players being that? 

 

I'm just being honest. We have three great prospects. None are at that level, but they are very good. Isn't that fair? Or do you want me to say they are McDavid, Lidstrom, and Roy to make you happy? 

Well both Lidstrom and Roy were 3rd round picks so no one knew what they'd become. With that said you can't say our prospects can't become franchise players because that's unfair and shows that you have no patience.

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, luckylager said:

Because you are an advocate for tanking, I have no patience or sympathy for "fans" who promote the whole losing to win BS.

 

I don't subscribe to it and being the competitive a-hole I am, I hate losing, I hate watching my team lose and I get really annoyed by the belief that intentionally losing or icing a losing team paves the path to victory.

 

 

Losing to win is not BS, you may not like it but it has worked before. The debate for me is

a: does tanking work in a cap world?

b: does tanking work for the Vancouver Canucks, this time around, given the players we have and those that are coming?

 

If taking a step back to get two steps forward in a years time is not something you believe in, how to you propose to replace your retiring players? Strictly free agents or trades?

Given it takes time for rookies to "learn the NHL level game" can you allow them to play in the bigs even though you will lose more games than by fielding a veteran line up?

 

Absolutes are too arbitrary. There are many paths imo.

[19Nazzy91]

7 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said:

You don't have to do it for years. If you do it the proper way, you will end up with an amazing young team on your hands. 

 

Do you think a guy like Babcock will put up with losing for 5+ seasons? Not a chance. It's about not throwing your top prospects to the Wolves and being patient. 

 

Oilers management was garbage for such a long time. I hate that as an example because that rebuild was so poorly done. 

True. But still, there's a steep curve when it comes to winning. I'd rather not wait about 3+ years of just losing as opposed to just trying to stay competitive. Maybe we won't be as good in the long run, but I guess we'll see.

[Sbriggs]

20 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said:

Because I have seen all 3 play, all are great prospects, but I can't see any of them being a top 5 player at their position in their prime.

well I guess we'll have to wait and see won't we instead of trusting your expert opinion

[cripplereh]

wow rant time and there have been posts just like this why not go post in one of them instead of making the 20th post or so about it?????

[Tre Mac]

We can't see the big picture because it's hidden behind that wall of text you call a thread.

[luckylager]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

Losing to win is not BS, you may not like it but it has worked before. The debate for me is

a: does tanking work in a cap world?

b: does tanking work for the Vancouver Canucks, this time around, given the players we have and those that are coming?

 

If taking a step back to get two steps forward in a years time is not something you believe in, how to you propose to replace your retiring players? Strictly free agents or trades?

Given it takes time for rookies to "learn the NHL level game" can you allow them to play in the bigs even though you will lose more games than by fielding a veteran line up?

 

Absolutes are too arbitrary. There are many paths imo.

I completely agree with the bolded. So many paths up the mountain, but I prefer to not take the loser route. Just because some teams have managed to be intentionally terrible and land great players early in the draft doesn't mean that's the only way to build a great team.

 

a: Does tanking work in the cap world? On one hand you have the losers, sorry, laffs, who tanked and managed to win the lottery with their 20% odds, and on the other you have the Jets who had no intention of sucking, yet landed Laine. So does it work? I don't know, guess we'll see in the next ten years. Will Edmonton, Buffalo and Chrana be powerhouses, or will they still be struggling because they genuinely have no idea how to win?

 

b: Hard to say. I'd prefer to build a winning team by the "Detroit model", lucky / rainman-esque drafting and great coaching / development.

 

We took a big step back this year and the Torts year without "trying to". Crap can happen, players can completely tune out their coach and teams can have terrible years without using the T word. Again, good drafting and player development, mixed with the right trades and key UFA signing can build a contender. Yes, I'm okay with losing more games because we have a younger line-up and they're learning the NHL level game, but to ice a team that can't compete is unforgivable. GM's who do this lack integrity and all other GM's should make sure they don't give them any good trades or even deal with them until they grow a set and actually lose like man, instead of "oh, well we meant to suck, look how awesome I am at making a horrible team that couldn't even win in the AHL.

 

 

 

 

[GoBoGo53]

2 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

well I guess we'll have to wait and see won't we instead of trusting your expert opinion

Ok why not trust the opinions of professional scouts?

 

Again, I am not saying Boeser, Demko, Juolevi won't be great players, they absolutely are! They are very, very high end players. All I am saying is that I don't believe this draft while being competitive strategy will provide us with a core that can compete in the west with Edmonton, Calgary, and Arizona. We need a Crosby/McDavid/Matthews/Ekblad level talent, just 1 to take us to being championship contenders. That is all I am saying.

[orcasgonewild]

9 hours ago, ABNuck said:

Been here 'bout 8 years...you?

 

Have you checked out your own responses to people on here? You gave your opinion on something (to start a discussion as you claim) and then you bash anyone who disagrees with you (I believe you called one guy a derp). So if this is the jumping off point where you would like to begin your time here on CDC, then be prepared for us "vets" on here to call you out on it. The one thing we cannot stand around here is hypocrisy. Again, state your opinion (even start a thread if you wish) and stand by it (either until the thread dies/ends or you change your perspective due to counter-arguments). Don't do it solely because you want to see other people's opinion. I sense your passion as a Canucks fan, so please let THAT be your motivation. I am a Canucks fan (have been for 40 years) and I really don't care what others think about the Canucks. There's 2 types of people in the world...Canucks fans and losers.

 

PS/ welcome to the madhouse

I apologize for my harsh words, I obviously took things too seriously on here and to anyone else I offended I'm sorry. I'll think more thoroughly next time before I post or respond to someone's criticism. Thanks for the heads up, have a great day.

[orcasgonewild]

5 hours ago, coastal1 said:

is a great locker room guy. "See, most of us don't have that knowledge, because what goes on in the dressing room, stays in the dressing room. So tells us, what have you seen when you were in the dressing room? As for taking on guys twice his size, all it shows is that he is careless about his head which will come back to haunt him later. Does getting beaten up by a bigger guy really does something positive for the team?? Who would you say his Dorsett's equivalent on say SJS or Pittsburgh?

U make great points but it is important to have a guy who's willing to fight for his team especially if you had a guy picking on our stars. The thing with sjs is that they have a couple ppl willing to scrap like Thornton and burns, and Pittsburg also has players with an edge too. Malkin is a pretty big guy. Crosby on the other hand is a scrapper but he's more of a whiner. 

[CanucksJay]

Great read. Not being sarcastic. I read the whole thing and thought it was entertaining but also had a lot of good points. 

 

I honestly don't understand how we rank 30th going into the season. 

 

Maybe this is the year to make some big bets. What kind of odds would you get to bet on them making playoffs? 

[smokes]

Who peed in your cornflakes this morning?

[Sbriggs]

23 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said:

Ok why not trust the opinions of professional scouts?

 

Again, I am not saying Boeser, Demko, Juolevi won't be great players, they absolutely are! They are very, very high end players. All I am saying is that I don't believe this draft while being competitive strategy will provide us with a core that can compete in the west with Edmonton, Calgary, and Arizona. We need a Crosby/McDavid/Matthews/Ekblad level talent, just 1 to take us to being championship contenders. That is all I am saying.

And all I am saying is when you draft a very good player like some of the Cunuck prospects you like to hope that one of them could possibly turn out to be a game changer and a franchise player. All I am saying is its possible and not like Dumb and Dumber possible. I am trying to be possitive on a CDC that is so negative all the time.

[cripplereh]

On 7/14/2016 at 3:37 PM, GoBoGo53 said:

Ok why not trust the opinions of professional scouts?

 

Again, I am not saying Boeser, Demko, Juolevi won't be great players, they absolutely are! They are very, very high end players. All I am saying is that I don't believe this draft while being competitive strategy will provide us with a core that can compete in the west with Edmonton, Calgary, and Arizona. We need a Crosby/McDavid/Matthews/Ekblad level talent, just 1 to take us to being championship contenders. That is all I am saying.

No you do not.You need all players buying into a program and way of winning.Any team can win you do not need a Crosby to win it all,it helps lots but still as long as we have D to shut these players down and forwards that can we can win without a superstar.We seem to have a possible 3 stars and to me one could be a superstar so we might have one,time will tell.

[Me_]

On July 13, 2016 at 4:32 PM, GoBoGo53 said:

More so Acquilinis refusing to rebuild than Benning. This team needs a rebuild.

 

Anyways Jim is a good GM at drafting. Boeser, Juolevi and Demko are nice picks, but none are franchise changing talents. They should all be good players (IMO Boeser ends up like a Okposo, Juolevi a good #2, Demko a legit starter).

 

Jim hasn't done too much wrong other than picking Virtanen too high.  Columbus has far worse management as far as I'm concerned. Avs as well.  

The team doesn't need a rebuild. The fan base and media does. There is no rebuild. It doesn't work. You build as you go.

[higgyfan]

On 7/14/2016 at 3:37 PM, GoBoGo53 said:

Ok why not trust the opinions of professional scouts?

 

Again, I am not saying Boeser, Demko, Juolevi won't be great players, they absolutely are! They are very, very high end players. All I am saying is that I don't believe this draft while being competitive strategy will provide us with a core that can compete in the west with Edmonton, Calgary, and Arizona. We need a Crosby/McDavid/Matthews/Ekblad level talent, just 1 to take us to being championship contenders. That is all I am saying.

Generational players are very rare; very slim chance of picking up one of these guys, considering the lotto pick drafting process.

 

The possibility of 'tanking' and picking up a 1st overall has diminished, even if the team finishes last.  Canucks come in 3rd from last and end up picking 5th.  That's what tanking gets you nowadays.

[GoBoGo53]

3 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Generational players are very rare; very slim chance of picking up one of these guys, considering the lotto pick drafting process.

 

The possibility of 'tanking' and picking up a 1st overall has diminished, even if the team finishes last.  Canucks come in 3rd from last and end up picking 5th.  That's what tanking gets you nowadays.

Or finishing last gets you first overall, like it did this year. Tanking got a team Eichel last year, and Matthews this year. Those are two franchise centermen.

[higgyfan]

19 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said:

Or finishing last gets you first overall, like it did this year. Tanking got a team Eichel last year, and Matthews this year. Those are two franchise centermen.

20% chance at 1st overall, you mean.  I'm sure Buffalo was thrilled to pick up Eichel instead of McDavid.

 

In the recent draft, we saw Edm fall from 2nd to 4th (of course they were gifted Puljujarvi, but you can't count on that happening often) and Vancouver 3rd to 5th.

 

There's just no guarantee that a team finishing in the bottom 3 or 4 will win that pick at the draft.