[Signing] Canucks re-sign D Andrey Pedan and F Alexandre Grenier

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

Exactly.  Why?  Is Willie a bad coach, or is Pedan a bad player?  He's was up there for a look, and they saw all that they needed.

If they saw all they needed to see, he wouldn't have gotten resigned.  We just watch Vey walk for nothing.  If they didn't think Pedan could be a depth player why did they choose to resign him over Bart?

 

I don't think WD is a bad coach just very stubborn.  He is loyal to his players even if he knows they aren't going to be his players the next year.  Players like Vey, Weber and Bart benefited from the extra playing time and it helped them showcase themselves to potentially earn a new contract with another team.  We watched over half of year of Prust and Higgins getting opportunity over young players which had the same losing result.  But then again WD probably wasn't 100% sure about his own job.

 

It was just a missed opportunity and poor management of the roster at the end of the season on all fronts. 

 

[WhoseTruckWasIt]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

It was just a missed opportunity and poor management of the roster at the end of the season on all fronts. 

 

I totally disagree.  We were horrendous and Willie was trying to get the best possible result.  I don't believe at all that he plays favorites, but maybe like all coaches he plays it safe.  But if someone didn't earn a spot on that roster that's on them, not the coach.  I think he wanted to stick with the meritocracy.  This isn't a developmental league and his mandate is to win, even if there's 5 games left and we are setting records for suckitude.  He wasn't gonna say "well, you won't be here next year, so we're gonna give this clearly inferior player a look", and I agree with that.

 

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

  If they didn't think Pedan could be a depth player why did they choose to resign him over Bart?

 

 

Exactly.  A depth player.  Either in our press-box or our farm team, but not slotted into future plans.  There must be some kind of hope that he improves, though I bet it's a slim one.  My point is simply that this guy is not guaranteed a spot because of the waiver implications.  I think he's on the thinnest of ice. 

 

I guess you're right in the sense that they clearly see more potential in Pedan than in Bartkowski.  Bartkowski played far enough below the bar that I don't think they gave it a second thought.  I doubt he would be thrilled with a 2way, but I was expecting him to get another chance somewhere this year.  

[WhoseTruckWasIt]

3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I think that says more about WD's deployment.  JB had him up with the big team for a reason, if he didn't think he deserved to be playing the NHL he would have stayed in the AHL getting minutes and helping them get ready for a playoff push.

 

There was no reason why we had him in the press box, not when games meant nothing.  What's the worst that could happen? We lose some more?  It's not like we'd be hurting any feelings, Bart and Weber weren't going to be with the team anymore.  As soon as we were eliminated from playoffs, the rest of the year should have turned into an early tryout for the next year so that there would be less question marks heading into camp.

 

When flames were out they brought up 3 AHL bubble players and gave them ice time.  They even put them in good positions, to see how they would handle it like putting Shinkaruk on the first line with Johhny and Monahan. 

Loss of credibility.  I don't think they can waffle on the meritocracy, and to my mind, they've been really consistent.  Prust and Higgins played because Desjardins thought they could help him, not because of their status.  They had done it before, and he may have believed they'd play through the slump.  (But I suppose I can't really know that).

 

One thing's for sure: it sucked to watch.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

6 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

I totally disagree.  We were horrendous and Willie was trying to get the best possible result.  I don't believe at all that he plays favorites, but maybe like all coaches he plays it safe.

But why? we were already out of a playoff spot. The least we could have done was try to salvage something from that season by getting a better read on our picks.  And his attempt wouldn't have given us any different result.  Both ways would have ended up with us losing. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

 But if someone didn't earn a spot on that roster that's on them, not the coach.

I disagree.  In order to succeed you have to be put into a position to show you can.  13 games, limited minutes and some of those upfront is not an opportunity..

 

6 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

 I think he wanted to stick with the meritocracy.  This isn't a developmental league and his mandate is to win, even if there's 5 games left and we are setting records for suckitude.  He wasn't gonna say "well, you won't be here next year, so we're gonna give this clearly inferior player a look", and I agree with that.

 

This is a developmental league, players are developing all the time.  When TO was knocked out of playoffs, guess who was brought up.  guess which players were given opportunity,  Babcock was smart enough to use the final part of the season to get a jump start on the 2016-17 season, maybe that's job security but it's also smart planning to give players confidence heading into camp next year. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

Exactly.  A depth player.  Either in our press-box or our farm team, but not slotted into future plans.  There must be some kind of hope that he improves, though I bet it's a slim one.  My point is simply that this guy is not guaranteed a spot because of the waiver implications.  I think he's on the thinnest of ice. 

 

You talk as if Pedan is currently a terrible player.  Again you're drawing up quite the conclusion off the very little you were able to watch him play.  The kid has talent. He was our best D in the AHL last year, and his first call up you couldn't really ask him to play any better.  

 

6 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

I guess you're right in the sense that they clearly see more potential in Pedan than in Bartkowski.  Bartkowski played far enough below the bar that I don't think they gave it a second thought.  I doubt he would be thrilled with a 2way, but I was expecting him to get another chance somewhere this year.  

 

1 minute ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

Loss of credibility.  I don't think they can waffle on the meritocracy, and to my mind, they've been really consistent.  Prust and Higgins played because Desjardins thought they could help him, not because of their status.  They had done it before, and he may have believed they'd play through the slump.  (But I suppose I can't really know that).

 

One thing's for sure: it sucked to watch.

It doesn't matter, his stubbornness almost cost us a top prospect in Baertschi, without our significant injured spell in December, Sven doesn't get his opportunity and sven likely ends up in Europe next year.  WD's job isn't just to win now, it's to make sure he able to continue to win tomorrow.  WD needs to be more trusting in his young players. When he shows his lack of trust in them, it only reflects in them not trusting their own abilities.

 

I'm not saying he should have been comfortable with losing at the end of the year, but he took chances, played the players he was comfortable with and ended up with a bad result.  At least if he played the young bubble player he could have said he accomplished something out a crappy year. and it's also give fans something to get excited about next year.. 

 

 

[WhoseTruckWasIt]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

But why? we were already out of a playoff spot. The least we could have done was try to salvage something from that season by getting a better read on our picks.  And his attempt wouldn't have given us any different result.  Both ways would have ended up with us losing. 

 

 

I disagree.  In order to succeed you have to be put into a position to show you can.  13 games, limited minutes and some of those upfront is not an opportunity..

 

 

This is a developmental league, players are developing all the time.  When TO was knocked out of playoffs, guess who was brought up.  guess which players were given opportunity,  Babcock was smart enough to use the final part of the season to get a jump start on the 2016-17 season, maybe that's job security but it's also smart planning to give players confidence heading into camp next year. 

 

 

 

You talk as if Pedan is currently a terrible player.  Again you're drawing up quite the conclusion off the very little you were able to watch him play.  The kid has talent. He was our best D in the AHL last year, and his first call up you couldn't really ask him to play any better.  

 

 

It doesn't matter, his stubbornness almost cost us a top prospect in Baertschi, without our significant injured spell in December, Sven doesn't get his opportunity and sven likely ends up in Europe next year.  WD's job isn't just to win now, it's to make sure he able to continue to win tomorrow.  WD needs to be more trusting in his young players. When he shows his lack of trust in them, it only reflects in them not trusting their own abilities.

 

I'm not saying he should have been comfortable with losing at the end of the year, but he took chances, played the players he was comfortable with and ended up with a bad result.  At least if he played the young bubble player he could have said he accomplished something out a crappy year. and it's also give fans something to get excited about next year.. 

 

 

Fair points, but are we talking about what did happen, or what should have happened?  I'm saying that it happened for a very clear reason, not because of incompetence or a failure to see the merit in what you are suggesting.  This is a decision about organizational direction - they weren't going to see the end of the season as 'mean-nothing games'.  I certainly don't think that Desjardins is infallible, far from it.  But I think that they have come up with a principle on how things should be approached, and the way they have stuck to it underlines that. 

 

Of course players develop in the NHL, but it is a philosophical question.  Do guys get into the line-up for the hope that they will one day improve it, or do they improve it?  I certainly hope that we don't lose Rodin or Larsen, because I'm not a hardliner on this, but I can respect and understand that they are doing it this way.  It's a very fine line between opportunity and competition though; mistakes will be made.

 

Yes, you're right, I've only seen Pedan in the few minutes he played with the Canucks, the pre-season, and a handful of Comets games, and highlights.  That is not really enough, but I am unimpressed, and I don't tend to jump to many conclusions about players.  I don't want anyone to take my word for it, but sometimes this board is absolutely certain about something and I have to point out that I have serious doubts.  I'm not lumping you into the CDC mass, because you are a top 5 poster in the league, but I have to laugh at the set-ups for disappointment that can happen.  Like when everyone pencils Grenier onto the top line, or Franson onto the D, or assumes that Sbisa will be traded, or Dorsett benched, or Hammer and Vrbata traded at the deadline, when it is more wishful thinking than anything.  I'm calling 'Pedan over Biega' one of those.  But again, this is not an argument that I would try to win, just a limb I'm willing to go out on.  You make a sound case, but I really think that Pedan didn't get to play a lot because Desjardins didn't think he could, not because he stubbornly played other guys out of loyalty. 

[hockeyking]

19 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

But why? we were already out of a playoff spot. The least we could have done was try to salvage something from that season by getting a better read on our picks.  And his attempt wouldn't have given us any different result.  Both ways would have ended up with us losing. 

 

 

I disagree.  In order to succeed you have to be put into a position to show you can.  13 games, limited minutes and some of those upfront is not an opportunity..

 

 

This is a developmental league, players are developing all the time.  When TO was knocked out of playoffs, guess who was brought up.  guess which players were given opportunity,  Babcock was smart enough to use the final part of the season to get a jump start on the 2016-17 season, maybe that's job security but it's also smart planning to give players confidence heading into camp next year. 

 

 

 

You talk as if Pedan is currently a terrible player.  Again you're drawing up quite the conclusion off the very little you were able to watch him play.  The kid has talent. He was our best D in the AHL last year, and his first call up you couldn't really ask him to play any better.  

 

 

It doesn't matter, his stubbornness almost cost us a top prospect in Baertschi, without our significant injured spell in December, Sven doesn't get his opportunity and sven likely ends up in Europe next year.  WD's job isn't just to win now, it's to make sure he able to continue to win tomorrow.  WD needs to be more trusting in his young players. When he shows his lack of trust in them, it only reflects in them not trusting their own abilities.

 

I'm not saying he should have been comfortable with losing at the end of the year, but he took chances, played the players he was comfortable with and ended up with a bad result.  At least if he played the young bubble player he could have said he accomplished something out a crappy year. and it's also give fans something to get excited about next year.. 

 

 

Didn't we call up and play Grenier, Gaunce and Zalawski

 

Wasn't TO so injured that they had to use them and wasn't that also so they have a bad enough roster to finish last. To me it appears to be more orchestrated by the gm rather than the coach.

 

I too think pedan was just okay, he wasn't really that good defensively mostly just a wrecking ball. In my opinion his ceiling appears to be a bigger Shane O'Brien.

 

I honestly think he would have but wouldn't have been Baertschi-horvat-Vrbata but Baertschi-Sutter-Vrbata.

 

He did give horvat  a chance at the 2c position at the start of the season, he gave hutton and Tryamkin top 4 minutes on defense, Etem and Granlund both averaged between 14-15 mins a game.

 

Baertchi wasn't ready for top six minutes at the start of the season so he didn't receive them. Mccann wasn't physically ready and Vritanen was ready physically but nothing else was quite at an NHL level.

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, hockeyking said:

Didn't we call up and play Grenier, Gaunce and Zalawski

How many games did they get? Enough to get a good look at them? Chris higgins was also called back up to play. 

 

1 minute ago, hockeyking said:

Wasn't TO so injured that they had to use them and wasn't that also so they have a bad enough roster to finish last. To me it appears to be more orchestrated by the gm rather than the coach.

If you called Kadri's injury sure,  weren't canucks completely decimated on in the injury department,  didn't Linden Vey average over 16 minutes and even some night get more ice than the twins?

 

1 minute ago, hockeyking said:

I too think pedan was just okay, he wasn't really that good defensively mostly just a wrecking ball. In my opinion his ceiling appears to be a bigger Shane O'Brien.

He seemed to be pretty solid to me in the AHL.  And look decent in the NHL.  Of the little amount we saw him, do you feel he got a fair opportunity to showcase himself?

 

1 minute ago, hockeyking said:

I honestly think he would have but wouldn't have been Baertschi-horvat-Vrbata but Baertschi-Sutter-Vrbata.

 

He did give horvat  a chance at the 2c position at the start of the season, he gave hutton and Tryamkin top 4 minutes on defense, Etem and Granlund both averaged between 14-15 mins a game.

Who else did he have to play there.  JB forced his hand by sending down Prust and higgins, Sutter was hurt, we didn't have a lot of options left. 

 

 

1 minute ago, hockeyking said:

Baertchi wasn't ready for top six minutes at the start of the season so he didn't receive them. Mccann wasn't physically ready and Vritanen was ready physically but nothing else was quite at an NHL level.

 

 

Baertschi wasn't ready, yet he was the 4th best ppg player we had playing 4th line minutes and getting healthy scratched up until the half way mark.  He's a skill player, skill players need offensive opportunity. Sven himself had stated this, Travis green admitted this about baertschi while he was in the AHL.  and finally WD figured this out himself after he was forced to play Sven due to injuries that December night in Detroit. 

 

“It was funny, as soon as he went on the power play he seemed to get a little bit of jump,” Desjardins said. “It was like he got excited about playing. It’s funny how that works.

 

 

[bleedblue2017]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 0:08 AM, ShakyWalton said:

I agree with this...we definitely need some grit up front..I would even go with Hartnell..he seems to be about the only available guy out there other than Kane that has toughness and can score some goals..Im sure Columbus would love for someone to take him off their hands...although I dont think we could afford his 5 million a year  right now...unless Columbus ate some salary and took something back.

 

As far as Grenier and Pedan..these guys are still young..24 and 23 years old..you dont just give up on  guys like that...I think Grenier should pass waivers and be in Utica this year and get a call up...Pedan is to enticing to cut loose,, he wont make it through waivers..he has a cannon for a shot..good speed and size ... can hit and fight...what team isnt looking for these type of players..I will agree his decision making needs to pick it up some   but he is to good to let slide. I think he will start the year with the Canucks as 7-8th D/extra forward.

I am trully on the fence with which of the young guys we will see on the team this comming year. If i am not mistaken, i think there is three or four forward spots available, and possibly one or two spots on the blue line? Just what it seems like to me. When I see Grenier highlights, he is a grinder/power forward type of player, he would fit nicely on the 4th line, Pedan and Sbisa would be interesting for sure, two guys that love to hit, sounds like something we need. Virtanen, Kenins, Rodin are also good choices for the 4th/3rd lines, lets not forget Gaunce aswell.