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[Discussion] Fire Benning! Prediction, Whatever, Rant,


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3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I get that from family members all the time, I watch games and pick them apart because that is what the job is.

 

The signature line gives 4 choices, ?????

Are you a scout or just a fan that can't help criticizing and nitpicking every little thing the team does both off and on the ice.  Maybe you should have posted this in your prediction thread and avoided opening yourself up for abuse.

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1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

If we fire Benning, a drafting GM, you could expect that the next replacement we get would shift the teams focus to competing for a cup ASAP. Ownership always have wanted to win. 

 

That would mean giving up the youth we have. Virtanen, Boeser Juolevi and etc for pieces that would help us win now. 

 

That's the biggest outlook I see ownership doing if they ever consider firing Benning, who seems to be a rebuilding type GM.

 

That's definitely a great fear I have with this ownership if they do fire Benning at any point of time during this transition. 

 

We are rebuilding. It is just not a full on tear down rebuild. Rebuild while trying to win and create a winning culture. If Benning can keep on drafting players like Boeser and McCann with late firsts then I don't see a huge issue for the time being

 

Also by the time the Sedins are done you could reasonably expect a certain amount rough seasons following till the young core shows that they can handle the reins passed down to them. That could be the time frame where we could possibly get that next franchise player that could put us over the top with are already built new core. 

 

Until then we have to develop this next new wave of players otherwise we will be in a heap of trouble when the Sedins are finally done. 

Well said.   I admit that I worry a bit about the future too (post Sedin Canucks) and wonder if we will look back and wish that Benning lit the dynamite and traded roster players for picks to help land our next super-star franchise player.   The new draft rules basically makes the tank road extremely risky, generational talent doesn't come by every year, and with a 1 in 5 chance in getting first overall if you finish last odds are closer to one in thirty that you get your super-star franchise player if your draft 1st (TO was extremely lucky this year).  Benning is doing the right thing, wish more media would back him up but I am sure eventually they will turn around.  Not the easiest of jobs either, cleaning up Gillis messes,having to draft talent with mostly mediocre picks, all the while taking a long view to be prepared once the Sedins retire (I say long as most GM's get five years if they are lucky, fans and ownership just are not patient enough for a lot of GM's rebuilds to take hold).   Sure hope that his picks  continue to pan out, if they do things will be ok when the Sedins retire and we won't have to worry about missing the playoffs four years in a row like we did after the Linden/Bure team was dismantled. 

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16 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

What JB is trying to do has been spelled out multiple times on this board.

 

Incidentally, I very much so would not have been okay with a blowup in the first year, nor would I be okay with a full tank now. If that happened, then he really would deserve to be fired.

The worst thing that can happen is that they change strategy before we've seen the results of what Benning has started.  Ownership needs to sign on for a minimum of 5 years.  This is conventional wisdom.

 

Firing Benning would mean wasting all the work that he has done to date. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, IBatch said:

Well said.   I admit that I worry a bit about the future too (post Sedin Canucks) and wonder if we will look back and wish that Benning lit the dynamite and traded roster players for picks to help land our next super-star franchise player

He had an opportunity this draft to get PJ, but listening to all the pre draft statements, the team was going to draft a dman no matter what forwards were available. We may have to wait years to see OJ if he decides to go back to his team in Europe. It was pointed out that he played in junior on loan from his European team, so he either plays in the NHL next year or re-signs with the other team.

 

12 hours ago, IBatch said:

The new draft rules basically makes the tank road extremely risky, generational talent doesn't come by every year, and with a 1 in 5 chance in getting first overall if you finish last odds are closer to one in thirty that you get your super-star franchise player if your draft 1st (TO was extremely lucky this year).

Quite true, JB had two years of modified drafts which would have favoured a low seating more, two years with supposed "franchise" generational players and all he did was trade away most of the teams picks for 23 to 25 years olds that can't score consistently and a dman that WAS #5 or 6 on Florida.

 

12 hours ago, IBatch said:

Sure hope that his picks  continue to pan out, if they do things will be ok when the Sedins retire and we won't have to worry about missing the playoffs four years in a row like we did after the Linden/Bure team was dismantled. 

You have it right, HOPE they pan out and at that, he has not come close to finding the Sedin replacements.

 

Four years of missing? 3 of the last 4 so far and 3 to 4 more because the team is that far behind the up an comers in the division/conference.

 

For other poster's, continue to ridicule the thread, keep posting how this won't happen or that I am delusional and critical of the team. It's all there. 

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9 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

He had an opportunity this draft to get PJ, but listening to all the pre draft statements, the team was going to draft a dman no matter what forwards were available. We may have to wait years to see OJ if he decides to go back to his team in Europe. It was pointed out that he played in junior on loan from his European team, so he either plays in the NHL next year or re-signs with the other team.

 

Quite true, JB had two years of modified drafts which would have favoured a low seating more, two years with supposed "franchise" generational players and all he did was trade away most of the teams picks for 23 to 25 years olds that can't score consistently and a dman that WAS #5 or 6 on Florida.

 

You have it right, HOPE they pan out and at that, he has not come close to finding the Sedin replacements.

 

Four years of missing? 3 of the last 4 so far and 3 to 4 more because the team is that far behind the up an comers in the division/conference.

 

For other poster's, continue to ridicule the thread, keep posting how this won't happen or that I am delusional and critical of the team. It's all there. 

You are speaking from the darker thoughts that probably plague a lot of other concerned fans (the media is feeding this to a point, but experts are known for getting it right from time to time...further into the abyss our thoughts go) whether they are ready to admit it yet or not, and I respect that.  Brave post.  Also those 4 years of big time sucking, did eventually land us the Sedins...

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3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

You are speaking from the darker thoughts that probably plague a lot of other concerned fans (the media is feeding this to a point, but experts are known for getting it right from time to time...further into the abyss our thoughts go) whether they are ready to admit it yet or not, and I respect that.  Brave post.  Also those 4 years of big time sucking, did eventually land us the Sedins...

The chances of getting two lynch pin players in one draft is now almost impossible, maybe a forward and a late pick dman, but with the new lottery the team might not ever get two close enough together to be uber competitive as long as the team was.

 

If anything it is quite possible that the new lottery will keep teams from rebuilding faster, make it take longer.

 

The only way I see to get around this (replacing the Sedins) is for the Canucks to use their financial strength and be very bold on the trade front. Or for the team to try to become the anti thesis of scoring, a defensive juggernaut, the New Jersey Devils reincarnated. But that would be telling the fans there is no hope of matching teams with skill.

 

The team could be drafting 2nd, 3rd or 4th liners for years yet without getting a #1, 2 or 3 overall pick with the new lottery.

Now that is a doom and gloom thought.

 

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48 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

He had an opportunity this draft to get PJ, but listening to all the pre draft statements, the team was going to draft a dman no matter what forwards were available. We may have to wait years to see OJ if he decides to go back to his team in Europe. It was pointed out that he played in junior on loan from his European team, so he either plays in the NHL next year or re-signs with the other team.

 

Quite true, JB had two years of modified drafts which would have favoured a low seating more, two years with supposed "franchise" generational players and all he did was trade away most of the teams picks for 23 to 25 years olds that can't score consistently and a dman that WAS #5 or 6 on Florida.

How many #5 or 6 defense play the most D minutes for a team in the playoffs?  He averaged over a full minute of icetime over the next defensemen, it's a good thing you use stats to bad up your opinions.

 

48 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

You have it right, HOPE they pan out and at that, he has not come close to finding the Sedin replacements.

I'm glad you can read into the future.  You must have known Naslund would turn into allstar,  I bet you already knew that over 70% of the top 40 point producers this year were by picks picked outside of the top 5. You must have known that Hutton would become an offensive D we've been needing and that Horvat would put up 40 points in his second NHL year and that Baertschi would put up 13 goals in his last 40 games.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Is there supposed to be content?

Laughing at how unrealistically negative you are. You know how much money they are still leaking from firing Gillis and Torts? We are lucky that Torts has a new team. If we fire Benning it:

1. It screws over the team direction whether you think it's bad or not.

2. The team loses more money

3. Why the heck would we fire him? He's just on year 2. By the time you'd like him fired.

4. We have a much better team than you think, our offense is still not good but it has new guys, Sutter who was contributing until his injuries, Eriksson puts up around 30 goals a year, Gudbranson helps on D even if you think otherwise if you compare him to Weber, he's LEAGUES ahead.

5. It will damage the organization's reputation, which GM would like to go to a team that has fired 2 GM's in the span of 3 years?

 

 

Oh, and on a side note, stop with your predictions. It's getting old. You hold very unrealistic optimism for the other 29 teams but for the Canucks you underrate dramatically it's comical. Stop talking about your predictions as they are going to happen.

You don't know what's going to happen, so stop claiming as you know the future.

 

By the way, stop lying about your knowledge of hockey, you made a thread asking about how the standings work? Are you serious? And then you go and ask why people don't respect you around here.

Because you are not the smartest around these forums by a LONG shot. You don't understand what our organizational needs are, what we acquire and what we give up. There was also a thread you made about how far the Leafs are going to finish ahead of us. Are you serious? Their team next year is going to be garbage outside of Matthews and Reilly. They are nowhere near Playoff contention and you really thought making a thread about how far the Leafs are going to finish ahead of the Canucks? Your scouting skills are awful.

 

There's a reason why so many people here dislike you, you've been lying about yourself, you've been acting as a selfish, entitled child thinking he's the best and knows everything. You claim to be a scout for 75 years which that in itself is highly doubtful and it was clear that you were lying to at least look like you know a thing or 2 about the game.

 

:picard: You're worse than Desi, at least Desi knew his stuff and did research about the team and the players. His judgement of talent might have been stupid but at least he knows what's going on. He also said multiple times before that he would want to wait one more year before making judgements on JB. And he said that THIS YEAR. You, on the other hand, are so impatient and dystopian that you are proposing to fire him next year when clearly nobody knows what's going to happen next season. Also, Desi never lied, at least to your extent, he didn't lie about how he worked for the NHL or scouted for X amount of years.

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34 minutes ago, Jam126 said:

There's a reason why so many people here dislike you, you've been lying about yourself, you've been acting as a selfish, entitled child thinking he's the best and knows everything. You claim to be a scout for 75 years which that in itself is highly doubtful and it was clear that you were lying to at least look like you know a thing or 2 about the game.

The average guy watching sports highlights views up to 20 teams a day during the season, for me sometimes it was a small matter or rewinding two or three times. AND while not doing the job for 75 years, your close on the age. Did you ever watch the Canucks prior to 1970? Do you even know where the forum is? Did you even know there was a team called the Canucks before they entered the NHL?

 

1 hour ago, Jam126 said:

There's a reason why so many people here dislike you, you've been lying about yourself, you've been acting as a selfish, entitled child thinking he's the best and knows everything. You claim to be a scout for 75 years which that in itself is highly doubtful and it was clear that you were lying to at least look like you know a thing or 2 about the game

Actually, I haven't made the prediction yet, but I left plenty of clues, still don't get it?

 

1 hour ago, Jam126 said:

By the way, stop lying about your knowledge of hockey, you made a thread asking about how the standings work? Are you serious? And then you go and ask why people don't respect you around here.

Because you are not the smartest around these forums by a LONG shot. You don't understand what our organizational needs are, what we acquire and what we give up. There was also a thread you made about how far the Leafs are going to finish ahead of us. Are you serious? Their team next year is going to be garbage outside of Matthews and Reilly. They are nowhere near Playoff contention and you really thought making a thread about how far the Leafs are going to finish ahead of the Canucks? Your scouting skills are awful.

Sometimes the best way to teach is to ask questions so the student looks it up.

Respect? Do you really think your opinion of me reflects on my day to day life? And you call me out? sheesh.

I am NOT the smartest in the forum, but far from the dumbest.

Organizational needs please enlighten me. What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Why won't the Leafs finish ahead of the Canucks, are you making a prediction?

Actually on another forum I did predict that TO would be the next Canadian cup winner, about 5 years ago just after the Canucks run, it mostly came about because Bettman started calling TO "Canada's" team outside of the playoffs.

Scouting skills? Boeser is an up and down winger, the type that usually end up being either with very good players or on the second line down. Have you watched what he does when his line mates are scoring? Very few end to end rushes, little driving to the net, but an NHL shot and release, better than average passing skills, decent hockey IQ. I don't expect him to have the same year as last, but that might be more telling than not as his team will likely not be as good.

1 hour ago, Jam126 said:

:picard: You're worse than Desi, at least Desi knew his stuff and did research about the team and the players. His judgement of talent might have been stupid but at least he knows what's going on. He also said multiple times before that he would want to wait one more year before making judgements on JB. And he said that THIS YEAR

Doing a personal attack doesn't enhance your own respectability, you sound like a child saying you are taking your bat and ball home because you didn't get your way.

This is year 3 now, I don't expect much improvement, if any, but I know for sure the Sedins are getting older, the team signed another player until he is 37, lost a spot for protecting a player in the expansion draft, JB has signed at least 4 players to the dreaded Gillis NTC, NMC contracts without a peep.

 

And you still don't see the content of the original post.

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2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

The average guy watching sports highlights views up to 20 teams a day during the season, for me sometimes it was a small matter or rewinding two or three times. AND while not doing the job for 75 years, your close on the age. Did you ever watch the Canucks prior to 1970? Do you even know where the forum is? Did you even know there was a team called the Canucks before they entered the NHL?

 

No, because they weren't an NHL franchise prior to 1970.

Yes, they were a team before entering the NHL, they were a PCHL team.

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Actually, I haven't made the prediction yet, but I left plenty of clues, still don't get it?

 

 

Clues of what? You made a prediction of how the Canucks are going to perform. You left clues. They are not everyone's exact opinions. You can call them your opinions, but you can't say they are clues.

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

 

Why won't the Leafs finish ahead of the Canucks, are you making a prediction?

 

 

They have a terrible team outside of Matthews, Nylander and Rielly. On top of that, they are still gonna continue with the "Shanaplan".

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Actually on another forum I did predict that TO would be the next Canadian cup winner, about 5 years ago just after the Canucks run, it mostly came about because Bettman started calling TO "Canada's" team outside of the playoffs.

 

That doesn't mean anything. It's just to appeal the biggest hockey market in Canada.

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Scouting skills? Boeser is an up and down winger, the type that usually end up being either with very good players or on the second line down. Have you watched what he does when his line mates are scoring? Very few end to end rushes, little driving to the net, but an NHL shot and release, better than average passing skills, decent hockey IQ. I don't expect him to have the same year as last, but that might be more telling than not as his team will likely not be as good.

 

Isn't that already obvious? His chemistry isn't going to be the same. Some of the teams best players went pro.

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Doing a personal attack doesn't enhance your own respectability, you sound like a child saying you are taking your bat and ball home because you didn't get your way.

 

Yes, but there's a fine line between being fair and knowledgeable, and asking ridiculous questions about things you should know spending your entire life in the sport. Never attacked you, just comparing how quick to judge you are and why the majority on here don't like you.

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

This is year 3 now, I don't expect much improvement, if any, but I know for sure the Sedins are getting older, the team signed another player until he is 37, lost a spot for protecting a player in the expansion draft, JB has signed at least 4 players to the dreaded Gillis NTC, NMC contracts without a peep.

 

 

Eriksson's going to be 36 when his contract ends BTW. And he's a lot more valuable to us than whoever we lose in the ED. Gillis signed almost the whole core to a NMC. Plus, 2 of those NMC's are going to end in 2 years. And they are the Sedins. Even if we could trade him, who would want or handle their cap? Alex Edler was signed by Gillis, so were the twins. So, in reality, JB signed one NMC and that was Eriksson. 2016-2014=2. This is year 2, year 3 is next year.

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

And you still don't see the content of the original post.

How about you ask the rest of the people that replied here? Because that's what happens when you build a bad relationship with most users. Whether you are right or wrong, whether it's just an opinion, people are going to pre-judge you. And they have and that will continue. I'm not saying change your ways at all, I'm just saying you're not gonna be in good shape with a lot of people around here.

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19 hours ago, Jam126 said:

Eriksson's going to be 36 when his contract ends BTW. And he's a lot more valuable to us than whoever we lose in the ED. Gillis signed almost the whole core to a NMC. Plus, 2 of those NMC's are going to end in 2 years. And they are the Sedins. Even if we could trade him, who would want or handle their cap? Alex Edler was signed by Gillis, so were the twins. So, in reality, JB signed one NMC and that was Eriksson. 2016-2014=2. This is year 2, year 3 is next year.

Miller, Sutter, Eriksson, Tanev..

Eriksson is 31 now, before the start of his 1rst season. He only made signing at 30 by a couple of weeks.

I myself don't have a problem with some of the NTC's or NMC's, but the last one will hurt the most due to the requirement of expansion, the second expansion, when Horvat, Virtanen, Tryamkin, Hutton, etal will be exposed.

 

Hint again, change the names of some.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it!

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12 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Miller, Sutter, Eriksson, Tanev..

Eriksson is 31 now, before the start of his 1rst season. He only made signing at 30 by a couple of weeks.

I myself don't have a problem with some of the NTC's or NMC's, but the last one will hurt the most due to the requirement of expansion, the second expansion, when Horvat, Virtanen, Tryamkin, Hutton, etal will be exposed.

 

Hint again, change the names of some.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it!

3 of those 4 players you mention don't have an NMC. I don't even know what point you are trying to bring with those players. Miller's gonna be gone next summer, Sutter is one of our most key players, Eriksson, he's in his 30's but can still produce and be a reliable PK'er. Tanev is our best D-man. Where did you get 2nd expansion from? There's only one official expansion draft and that's Las Vegas. It's never been confirmed by the NHL that Quebec is going to have a team. They hinted they might, but it's not official. Until then, we only have one expansion draft. Plus, why do you worry about our young players? They're going to make it a priority to put all our young talents first. Tryamkin and Hutton if the expansion draft of 2018 or whenever is going to happen, they'll pick them over Edler and Tanev (Maybe?). This is the only time that we are fortunate to have a weak offense, we can protect our few young stars easily and the rest aren't really that big of a loss.

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15 minutes ago, Jam126 said:

3 of those 4 players you mention don't have an NMC. I don't even know what point you are trying to bring with those players. Miller's gonna be gone next summer, Sutter is one of our most key players, Eriksson, he's in his 30's but can still produce and be a reliable PK'er. Tanev is our best D-man. Where did you get 2nd expansion from? There's only one official expansion draft and that's Las Vegas. It's never been confirmed by the NHL that Quebec is going to have a team. They hinted they might, but it's not official. Until then, we only have one expansion draft. Plus, why do you worry about our young players? They're going to make it a priority to put all our young talents first. Tryamkin and Hutton if the expansion draft of 2018 or whenever is going to happen, they'll pick them over Edler and Tanev (Maybe?). This is the only time that we are fortunate to have a weak offense, we can protect our few young stars easily and the rest aren't really that big of a loss.

So many posters credit Benning with having to deal with the Gillis NTC's and NMC's and yet he signed 4 himself, .....god for the goose, good for the gander? Could it not be said he has created the very problem most fans say handcuffed him before?

 

Having one of these contracts makes it mandatory to "protect" them in an expansion draft. Most likely the next expansion will be within the next two/three years.

 

Eriksson, PK, 2 30 goal seasons, you think he may end up looking a little like Burrows in a couple of years?

 

Okay, with the exception of firing the coach, ........

 

Now, the worst thing for the young guys on the team would be if he trades for Kane, too much "baggage" and too much of an age gap between Kane and the mentors because he has already had success in the NHL, he could be poison to Virtanen, two local boys hanging out in Vancouver, not a good thing. Now if Kane were around Lucic, that might be different, the alpha would definitely be Lucic.

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