kylecanuck Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Hmm. Great point. Who really does care? Oh, just NHL GMs. Whatever, amirite? Can anyone explain why they feel personally offended by this? Im not personally offended, but it do find it ridiculous that these college players back out on the team that drafts them. It's a matter of honour, and they are showing zero of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Just now, kylecanuck said: Im not personally offended, but it do find it ridiculous that these college players back out on the team that drafts them. It's a matter of honour, and they are showing zero of it. The rules of honour, as perceived by a fan. That's what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Hmm. Great point. Who really does care? Oh, just NHL GMs. Whatever, amirite? Can anyone explain why they feel personally offended by this? just because nhl gms are fighting over him doesnt mean hes worth the hype bro everyones sick of hearing his name and whys it take all summer to decide where you want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylecanuck Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: The rules of honour, as perceived by a fan. That's what I thought. Honour is honour no matter how you look at it, if you're a fan or a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, canuktravella said: i really think the nhl should play hardball with vesey and this kid make them reeneter the draft so they have to wait another yr to play id pretty much black list the agent so he had no clients i swear vesey is so overrated who cares where he signs he will bust Brian Bruke called it like it is. Free agent NCAA players rarely make a huge impact. Yet it doesn't stop GMs from going nuts over these guys. Harvard isn't even in a great conference and that school rarely produces NHL talent. Remember when McNally was looking like a future stud on D? He put up a point per game in his final season, and then went on to put up 3 points in 35 games in the AHL at age 24. Third and fourth year guys should be putting up big points in that league, it doesn't mean they're future stars. They're playing against 19 and 20 year olds. It's the equivalent of 20 year olds dominating 17 and 18 year olds in their final yea of junior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Just now, kylecanuck said: Honour is honour no matter how you look at it, if your a fan or a player. guys just trolling your right vesey is classless he should honour who drafted him but still hes playing in rules because of this dumb loophole hopefully the nhl changes this in next cba. Regardless i dont think he will even be a nhl player he is a older college kid who played in the worst ncaa division he might not even be ahl worthy so i see why hes trying to sign for as much as he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Brian Bruke called it like it is. Free agent NCAA players rarely make a huge impact. Yet it doesn't stop GMs from going nuts over these guys. Harvard isn't even in a great conference and that school rarely produces NHL talent. Remember when McNally was looking like a future stud on D? He put up a point per game in his final season, and then went on to put up 3 points in 35 games in the AHL at age 24. Third and fourth year guys should be putting up big points in that league, it doesn't mean they're future stars. They're playing against 19 and 20 year olds. It's the equivalent of 20 year olds dominating 17 and 18 year olds in their final yea of junior. i fully agree id rather find some hidden european talent thats out there over this kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Phooey Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 26 minutes ago, canuktravella said: i really think the nhl should play hardball with vesey and this kid make them reeneter the draft so they have to wait another yr to play id pretty much black list the agent so he had no clients i swear vesey is so overrated who cares where he signs he will bust Right. And Kenins was going to be a superstar in the NHL, wasn't he? Personally, I have no issues with players refusing to sign with the team that drafts them. Allotted time as allowed for by the CBA has come and gone for these players, so let them sign wherever they want. Historically, most of these guys are busts so as this dude^^^ says, it becomes buyers beware. Team receives a second round draft pick so there are mechanisms for compensation that IMO are reasonable. I don't get why players who want to exercise their rights as allowed for by the CBA are villified. Now, having said all this, I really hope that the Canucks are able to close on Boeser, Gaudette and Lockwood. But that's the risk you have to accept when drafting players playing US college. Every team knows the rules...they know the risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 2 hours ago, elvis15 said: Except teams only hold those rights if they can sign said player to a contract within the appropriate time. For instance, we had to sign Subban within 2 years or allow him to go back in the draft, and we had to sign Tryamkin for this year or allow him to go to UFA. Why would a 22/23 year old player (who's chosen to go the college route and graduate) you haven't signed be required to stay your property for another 3-4 years when the others aren't? Apart from how it is now, the only possible way it works is if teams hold the rights of graduating NCAA players for one year and if they still can't agree, then they go to UFA. Otherwise it's unfair to the players and there's no way the NHLPA would let it get into a new CBA (which we aren't due for yet anyway). Obviously there would be the matter of a qualifying offer being presented (as is the case with any rfa) to retain rights. Not going to happen but it does make a hell of a lot more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 13 minutes ago, canuktravella said: i fully agree id rather find some hidden european talent thats out there over this kid Don't get me wrong, sometimes it's worth the gamble. It all comes down to the program they're coming from for me though. If it's a free agent coming from BU, BC, UND, Michigan, UMD, Wisconsin or Denver jump all over it. That's worth the gamble. Any other program I would take a pass on a player unless they're putting up amazing numbers, which this guy isn't. A third year player should be putting up well over a point per game if they're going to have an impact at the next level. Remember Stephane Da Costa? He's the guy teams were clamoring over a few years back. He had way better numbers in his second year of college and now he's playing in the KHL. I'd much rather go out and sign another unknown guy like Ronalds Kenins than take a long shot gamble on a guy like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 hour ago, coryberg said: Obviously there would be the matter of a qualifying offer being presented (as is the case with any rfa) to retain rights. Not going to happen but it does make a hell of a lot more sense. The qualifying offer only works if you've signed them to a contract previously. If you're having trouble signing a player for the first time, you can't just throw out a qualifying offer and prevent them going back into the draft or to UFA. For instance, Washington couldn't just put up a qualifying offer for DiPauli to retain his rights and avoid him going to UFA as we're seeing now. It goes like this: A team drafts a player That team holds the rights to that player for a specified time in which they must sign him (term can differ depending on situation, like draft year, overseas player, etc.) If the team can't sign the player, they either re-enter the draft (if they were drafted in their 1st eligible year), go to UFA directly (if they were drafted in their 2nd or 3rd eligible year), or go to UFA after August 15 in the summer following graduation (if they elected to play NCAA hockey) If a team does sign a player, they have to renew his contract or at least tender a qualifying offer to retain their RFA rights up to the qualifying age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 2 hours ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Hmm. Great point. Who really does care? Oh, just NHL GMs. Whatever, amirite? Can anyone explain why they feel personally offended by this? If either of them signed with the Canucks, most if not all would gloat about it and do an abrupt 180 in their opinion on the player. With that being said, it's funny that this DiPauli guy wants to play hardball though. He doesn't even have the Hobey Baker argument to fall back on like Vesey does. Although if he fails nobody will remember him anyways. If Vesey fails, nobody will forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I find it sad how these teams are bringing their whole front office to meet with these guys along with their star players. Must be such an awkward process. Like "Here's Cam Neely kid, remember how great a player he was? No? Well he was. Wanna sign with us?" So much pandering going on with a player that hasn't even played a professional game yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylecanuck Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 2 hours ago, canuktravella said: guys just trolling your right vesey is classless he should honour who drafted him but still hes playing in rules because of this dumb loophole hopefully the nhl changes this in next cba. Regardless i dont think he will even be a nhl player he is a older college kid who played in the worst ncaa division he might not even be ahl worthy so i see why hes trying to sign for as much as he can. Its a glaring hole in the NHL these days as it seems to be a constant thing these days, it's unfortunate as it taints rhe game a bit. I wouldn't see why the NHLPA wouldn't want it fixed as well. I know nothing of vessey, hadn't heard of him till everyone wanted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, kylecanuck said: Its a glaring hole in the NHL these days as it seems to be a constant thing these days, it's unfortunate as it taints rhe game a bit. I wouldn't see why the NHLPA wouldn't want it fixed as well. I know nothing of vessey, hadn't heard of him till everyone wanted him. I can think of any number of reasons (aka, the suggestions people have had to fix it) for why the NHLPA wouldn't want to change it. What's their incentive, just to avoid tainting the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylecanuck Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 5 minutes ago, elvis15 said: I can think of any number of reasons (aka, the suggestions people have had to fix it) for why the NHLPA wouldn't want to change it. What's their incentive, just to avoid tainting the game? Im not sure here, I said they would want to change it. Is that what you got out of it? So you think it should stay the same and players should be allowed to be drafted by a team. Then said player is allowed to go nahhh, im going to go to school for four years and then sign with whoever I want. You think that's a good plan going forward for the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 17 minutes ago, kylecanuck said: Its a glaring hole in the NHL these days as it seems to be a constant thing these days, it's unfortunate as it taints rhe game a bit. I wouldn't see why the NHLPA wouldn't want it fixed as well. I know nothing of vessey, hadn't heard of him till everyone wanted him. Gave you a + for using taint in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylecanuck Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, ice orca said: Gave you a + for using taint in your post. Thanks, it was my suggestion for our softball team name as well The Taints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 7 hours ago, canuktravella said: just because nhl gms are fighting over him doesnt mean hes worth the hype bro everyones sick of hearing his name and whys it take all summer to decide where you want to play. Exactly. You don't know sh!t about what kind of player he is - you're looking at it from an entertainment point of view. That's fine, obviously, but it doesn't put you in a position to say "who cares about this bust". I have no idea if he's worth the hype, but people who are in a position to know think that he might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 7 hours ago, kylecanuck said: Honour is honour no matter how you look at it, if you're a fan or a player. Unless everyone looks at it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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