elvis15 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 15 minutes ago, GLASSJAW said: I agree, I do not think there is a Terrorist Outfitters shop somewhere that is suiting up both IRA and Buddhists with the same t-shirts OR burkas. Within the context of the conversation, it seemed to me we were discussing Islamic (based) terrorism Even with strictly Islamic extremists, they do recruit from non-Muslim supporters. They tend to prefer women fully covered and all that (not just head scarves or dressed as western women do) but they've likely used women in less obvious garb if it suited them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Worth noting that this burkini ban is part of a larger ban on face covering in general - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering Covering the face in all public places has been banned since 2011. In public schools since 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekey Pete Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 1 hour ago, cabinessence said: Lazy comment. There is much more to my comment to ponder than just a simple conclusion, such as the one you drew. Cue bass solo, but not for you! Burkini's are scary, liberals are bad, other countries do it so why shouldn't we. There isn't much more to ponder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSecretIsMe Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I can't believe the arguments for this ban. The argument of Saudi Arabia creating targeted laws is a garbage argument as well. Those who are using that as an argument are straight up racist. Since when did the western world start believing in two wrongs making a right? We're not followers, we are leaders. We go around imposing what we believe to be true on others all around the world, so why this blatantly lethargic, racist, and fascist logic now? Aren't we creating laws and societies that all should replicate because its for the better of us all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 2 hours ago, GLASSJAW said: Someone is responding to a political question using a common rhetorical device and you're accusing him of hiding his opinion and being ignorant. lol.. Female terrorists, rare as they are, do not commit crimes wearing jeans and t-shirts. I would be surprised if this has happened even once. While 'devil's advocate' is supposed to be a common rhetorical device, it was not used this way. You can't use improbable worst case scenarios to push your agenda against common sense logic. The point about jeans and t-shirts, is that terrorists blend in. Banning them from wearing religious clothing will have no impact on security. ZERO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 7 hours ago, J.R. said: What a silly waste of governmental power. this , this , this aaaaannnnnnddddd this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 19 minutes ago, Hugor Hill said: common sense logic. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 4 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said: Well, hell, if that's the case, why don't we just make Muslim women go naked everywhere? Hard to hide a weapon when you're in the buff....but ah crap, that wouldn't work because they would have a couple of orifices that could hide something in! Better give them all random cavity searches too! I clearly said "Saying nothing of the choice of a Muslim (or any) woman to wear this or not" Muslim or non-Muslim doesn't make a difference in this instance. Let's strip away (no pun intended) the security issue which as someone pointed out is a weak stretch of an excuse. Someone else posted links where men are just as subject to swimwear attire rules as women, in fact men are not allowed to wear long baggy swim trunks in Parisian public pools. 3 hours ago, Hugor Hill said: You are still hiding your opinion, now behind 'someone else's opinion' and 'objectivity'. If you agree with it, which you clearly do, then it doesn't matter if it is yours or not. And your bolded part, is just rationale they are teaching you to feed us for their propaganda. If the burkini becomes a regular tool in terrorist acts, then we can talk. Where in any of what I said was a clear delineation of my support of these opinions. Prefacing my entire post with "Devils Advocate" (I know, I know, you think it's a cop out) means that I am merely stating opposing dialogue for the sake of argument. In no way did I inject any sort of self serving opinion into the discussion, except maybe to compare the Burkini to a Wetsuit. Where I compare the Burkini to a Wetsuit, did you then immediately jump to the next paragraph and zone in on "This is another valid reason", and then move on to "this is not an indictment of..." thus forming your opinion that I somehow agree with and support the above opinions? Man, if mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport you would be the champ. The validity of something is in no way the same as agreeing with or supporting something personally. I have zero skin in this game, I gain nothing by agreeing with this opinion or another. I'm simply commenting on the situation, and at the very worst EMPATHIZING with why France would do the things they are doing. I also stated very succinctly that France has recent precedent (the onslaught of terrorist attacks) to be concerned with ALL avenues of potential terrorism. It's like, say a pack of rats entered your home and you got most of them, but a couple of those grimy little bastards slipped through your net. Would you just go to bed that night and hope that they quietly vacated the premises on their own terms, or that they wouldn't cause any undue damage or destruction to your house? Or would you, like any rational home owning individual call pest control and have them lay down traps for future incursions, and suss out the ones that are hiding? France is apparently doing what it deems necessary as a nation to shore up measures which, as bigoted, racist and pathetic as they are help ease the minds of the majority of its citizens, and if nothing else do something to appease the general tone of that nations sensibilities. Hint: The last paragraph is a pretty strong indicator as to the nature of MY opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, shadowgoon said: I also stated very succinctly that France has recent precedent (the onslaught of terrorist attacks) to be concerned with ALL avenues of potential terrorism. It's like, say a pack of rats entered your home and you got most of them, but a couple of those grimy little bastards slipped through your net. Would you just go to bed that night and hope that they quietly vacated the premises on their own terms, or that they wouldn't cause any undue damage or destruction to your house? Or would you, like any rational home owning individual call pest control and have them lay down traps for future incursions, and suss out the ones that are hiding? No. You clean up your house and keep it clean so the rats have no reason to come into your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Phaneuf Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 It's a joke. The burkini is not different than a wetsuit or even somebody wearing a t-shirt and shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsedin33 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Just seems like a passive-aggressive way to force people to assimilate or leave. That being said, their culture (France) is much different than ours, they have more nudity in their daily ads from what I hear. Much more liberal than us. So I kiiiind of understand where they are coming from? It's a slippery slope however. Mandating you can't wear something is only a stones-throw from mandating you must wear something, like a burka. Personally speaking, burkas are scary-looking AF, but who am I to judge if she voluntarily puts it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabinessence Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 9 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said: Oh, Lord. That argument has so many holes in it's logic it's sadly hilarious. If they're that worried about it, why not just make all of France's beaches nude only then? I could smuggle a weapon in surf shorts and a tank top. Maybe if surfer dudes start getting reputation for terrorism you'll have a point. Cue bass solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, cabinessence said: Maybe if surfer dudes start getting reputation for terrorism you'll have a point. Cue bass solo. What? Never seen Point Break???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabinessence Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 5 hours ago, elvis15 said: What you just said made very little sense. It's not your opinion showing bias, but rather the way you've worded your opinion and focused on the wrong things. And someone else agreeing with France's decision does nothing to show bias either, only their reasoning for doing so if it's slanted for reasons not logical to the debate. It made perfect sense to many. Maybe you just don't follow that well. Cue slow bass solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabinessence Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Just now, HerrDrFunk said: What? Never seen Point Break???? Sorry, I have not. Was that a movie or real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabinessence Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 22 minutes ago, Dion Phaneuf said: It's a joke. The burkini is not different than a wetsuit or even somebody wearing a t-shirt and shorts. Actually it is different than a wet suit. Please read some previous posts. Cue bass solo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, cabinessence said: Sorry, I have not. Was that a movie or real life? Shame on you. It's an awesome movie (the original, don't waste time on that cinematic travesty they called a reboot) and I was being facetious. The point I was trying to make is there are many, many beachwear options that somebody could conceal a weapon or explosives in. Unless they're all banned too, they're just singling out Muslims because they're Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Phaneuf Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, cabinessence said: Actually it is different than a wet suit. Please read some previous posts. Cue bass solo! My point still stands. Maybe I should have phrased my answer clearly but a burkini and a wetsuit appear to look the same although function differently. A burkini is causal swim/beach wear and no different than a t-shirt and shorts. Concealing weapons, bombs, whatever makes one afraid, can all be said for those in "traditional" or "normal" swim/beach wear. Swim/beach wear should not be dictated by law/government. Should we ban everyone from covering up at the beach? Only actual swim/beach wear allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Dion Phaneuf said: My point still stands. Maybe I should have phrased my answer clearly but a burkini and a wetsuit appear to look the same although function differently. A burkini is causal swim/beach wear and no different than a t-shirt and shorts. Concealing weapons, bombs, whatever makes one afraid, can all be said for those in "traditional" or "normal" swim/beach wear. Swim/beach wear should not be dictated by law/government. Should we ban everyone from covering up at the beach? Only actual swim/beach wear allowed. Sorry, but in most places it's already done. Why aren't all beaches clothing optional? Nice false equivalence with the burkini = t-shirt and shorts. Last I checked, there was no holy book or imam commanding me to wear a T-shirt and shorts. It's religious oppression by definition and don't even try to tell me that the majority of Muslim women wear it willingly with no threat or consequences from their family or religious group if they refuse. I get it. Restricting the freedom to wear a burkini at the beach seems oppressive at first glance, but it's a step toward encouraging religious reformation for immigrants. -It demonstrates that France will not put up with practices that oppress women. You want to join western society? OK. Time to abandon the dangerous and oppressive ideas and move forward. Don't want to? You're free to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabinessence Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 2 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said: Shame on you. It's an awesome movie (the original, don't waste time on that cinematic travesty they called a reboot) and I was being facetious. The point I was trying to make is there are many, many beachwear options that somebody could conceal a weapon or explosives in. Unless they're all banned too, they're just singling out Muslims because they're Muslims. Pretty good post. Yes, they are singling out Muslims. I have no idea what might have triggered the French to be leery of Muslim behavior there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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