Twins Great/Team's Lousy(Discussion)

[apollo]

1 hour ago, Fan since 82 said:

Their names are not engraved on the cup, and I am pretty sure they also don't consider themselves the 2011 cup winners. 

Hey man let me live in denial in peace. I know it doesn't say their name on the cup but does it matter if it says John Cenas or the rocks name on the wwe championship? It's as fixed as the scf. 

[Fan since 82]

2 hours ago, apollo said:

Hey man let me live in denial in peace. I know it doesn't say their name on the cup but does it matter if it says John Cenas or the rocks name on the wwe championship? It's as fixed as the scf. 

Gotcha :-)

[Baggins]

16 hours ago, apollo said:

Hey man let me live in denial in peace. I know it doesn't say their name on the cup but does it matter if it says John Cenas or the rocks name on the wwe championship? It's as fixed as the scf. 

The only reason for the SCF to be fixed would be to increase interest in struggling markets. What value would there be in Boston beating us in 2011? They're an original 6 team with a strong following. Teams like Arizona, Columbus, Tampa, Florida and even Nashville could benefit from such a fix but strong markets like Chicago, Boston, and Pittsburgh - not so much.

[clam linguine]

On 8/26/2016 at 6:53 AM, Baggins said:

The only reason for the SCF to be fixed would be to increase interest in struggling markets. What value would there be in Boston beating us in 2011? 

Here are reasons why some people think the 2011 Cup was fixed. The Bruins had not won the Cup in almost 40 years.  Jacobs is one of the most influential owners in the league.  Aquilini was a lightweight newby owner who would not likely be rewarded a cup. The martyring of Colin Campbell guaranteed a problem from the refs. The Bruin win was hugely popular across North America (except Vancouver), witness the giddy HNIC celebs when the Canucks were getting hacked and slapped into submission. If there is one NHL market that will accept, or be oblivious to being sacrificed, it is ours.

 

It would be great to get some assets for the Sedins.  Simply losing their Cap hit would be a major step forward for us.

[Dr. Crossbar]

4 hours ago, Baggins said:

The only reason for the SCF to be fixed would be to increase interest in struggling markets. What value would there be in Boston beating us in 2011? They're an original 6 team with a strong following. Teams like Arizona, Columbus, Tampa, Florida and even Nashville could benefit from such a fix but strong markets like Chicago, Boston, and Pittsburgh - not so much.

I don't normally go down this path but one of the only times I've ever entertained this line of thinking was when the Minnesota North Stars went to the SCF in 1991.

 

The year before the team was struggling to stay afloat, the team almost folded, there were real threats to relocate, they were one of the worst teams in the league, and then suddenly they make it to the SCF!!!! 

 

Still, I'm not saying it was fixed but it was definitely enough to make me go, WTF?

 

2011, we just came up short. It was ours to lose. 

[Baggins]

8 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I don't normally go down this path but one of the only times I've ever entertained this line of thinking was when the Minnesota North Stars went to the SCF in 1991.

 

The year before the team was struggling to stay afloat, the team almost folded, there were real threats to relocate, they were one of the worst teams in the league, and then suddenly they make it to the SCF!!!! 

 

Still, I'm not saying it was fixed but it was definitely enough to make me go, WTF?

 

2011, we just came up short. It was ours to lose. 

The Northstars made several trades mid-season. The second half of the season they had the best record in the league including the Islanders. It was their absoluetely miserable start to the season that had them so low in the overall rankings. Much like our 94 run. We acquired two top four d-men past the midway mark. The 94 Canucks were nowhere near as bad going into the playoffs as they were in the first half of the season.

[Baggins]

10 hours ago, clam linguine said:

Here are reasons why some people think the 2011 Cup was fixed. The Bruins had not won the Cup in almost 40 years.  Jacobs is one of the most influential owners in the league.  Aquilini was a lightweight newby owner who would not likely be rewarded a cup. The martyred Colin Campbell guaranteed a problem from the refs. The Bruin win was hugely popular across North America (except Vancouver), witness the giddy HNIC celebs when the Canucks were getting hacked and slapped into submission. If there is one NHL market that will accept, or be oblivious to being sacrificed, it is ours.

 

It would be great to get some assets for the Sedins.  Simply losing their Cap hit would be a major step forward for us.

That's just tinfoil hat/sour graqpes territory.

[Nuxfanabroad]

On ‎2016‎年‎8‎月‎25‎日 at 3:58 AM, Chris12345 said:

If the return is right you absolutely do it. I wouldn't shop them but if a GM doesn't consider it they aren't doing their job.

 

Linden was traded indirectly for a Sedin AND Loungo.

 

I don't believe in fairy tales. If it makes the team better long term pull the trigger. I'd take a cup over a heart warming story any day.

Bold opinion.

[IBatch]

On 23/08/2016 at 0:51 AM, Nuxfanabroad said:

For the sake of summer yakkin', thought I'd ask this hypothetical head-scratcher.

 

Say the twins play is stellar( 1~1.2 ppg avg, throughout), but for various other reasons(lets say injuries,+ inexperience) the team is bottom 3 league-wide. This is early Jan2017, & PO-consideration is already laughable.

 

Some significant offers float in. We retain 4 mill(so 10 mill outgoing), take on an onerous contract(expires same time as twins' contact), + land about 3 great young pieces.

 

Would you make that move? At A) TDL,  B,Offseason, or C) Refuse the notion.

 

Question is asked, assuming the twins would readily accept chance to win the Cup elsewhere.

I would whatever we could get for the Sedins at this point.  If they want to move somewhere else for a chance at a cup, even if they have a similar season as last year, I would be happy for them, and happy for us to get something before the offseason and they sign somewhere else and we get nothing.

[IBatch]

On 26/08/2016 at 0:13 PM, clam linguine said:

Here are reasons why some people think the 2011 Cup was fixed. The Bruins had not won the Cup in almost 40 years.  Jacobs is one of the most influential owners in the league.  Aquilini was a lightweight newby owner who would not likely be rewarded a cup. The martyred Colin Campbell guaranteed a problem from the refs. The Bruin win was hugely popular across North America (except Vancouver), witness the giddy HNIC celebs when the Canucks were getting hacked and slapped into submission. If there is one NHL market that will accept, or be oblivious to being sacrificed, it is ours.

 

It would be great to get some assets for the Sedins.  Simply losing their Cap hit would be a major step forward for us.

I wouldn't say oblivious given the amount of posts I've read that has us the victim of non calls and even the Rome hit/suspension etc. as a reason for not winning.  We got more pp's than Boston, arguably not enough, but personally I don't think the refs were told to do whatever they could to influence the series.  We got our chances, other teams also fell victim to Thomas.  

 

Then re-set, go out and have another stellar year that has us at or near the top in all categories and fall victim to and eighth seeded team that clicks completely at the right time and has stellar goaltending....or were victim to Gretzky's ray beams from the past bouncing around in LA and hitting players in their brains to make them forget how to score, as well as alien abduction, espionage and time traveling warlocks then too?

[clam linguine]

11 hours ago, IBatch said:

I wouldn't say oblivious given the amount of posts I've read that has us the victim of non calls and even the Rome hit/suspension etc. as a reason for not winning.  We got more pp's than Boston, arguably not enough, but personally I don't think the refs were told to do whatever they could to influence the series.  We got our chances, other teams also fell victim to Thomas.  

 

Then re-set, go out and have another stellar year that has us at or near the top in all categories and fall victim to and eighth seeded team that clicks completely at the right time and has stellar goaltending....or were victim to Gretzky's ray beams from the past bouncing around in LA and hitting players in their brains to make them forget how to score, as well as alien abduction, espionage and time traveling warlocks then too?

Those were the days of the refs calling everything. After the Rome hit the Bruins knew they were done so they went "full retard" ....and got away with it. To the give the NHL some credit, they've have never gone back to calling games as tightly ever since.

 

The Sedins major accomplishment since 2012 has been gifting picks that should be ours to the Oilers. Nostalgia fans won the day in Vancouver so the twins never did get traded or released to a team which wanted to overpay for two old stars. Too late now.

[Nuxfanabroad]

^Gotta say Gents..bumped this, cos' it would've been tossed in file 13(threads disappear after 1 yr of last post, it appears). If the twins do move on(say TDL), find various poster-predictions kinda fun to scroll thru...

 

At this pt, it mostly appears the guys will wind it up on the west coast. With their utterly unique & exceptional careers, it's probably the best outcome.

[Davathor]

On 2016-08-22 at 11:15 PM, nux4lyfe said:

Benning already stated that they're going to retire as Canucks.

 

/End Thread.

 

"This team is not rebuilding"

 

remember that?

 

with that said I think the Sedins won't go anywhere unless THEY ask to be rented to a contender, and given their family and roots in Van I don't see them doing that.  Personally I wouldn't mind seeing them come back for another year in a 2nd/3rd line mentoring role. No matter what age they are better middle 6 players than Eriksson

[Rob_Zepp]

On 8/22/2016 at 9:51 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

For the sake of summer yakkin', thought I'd ask this hypothetical head-scratcher.

 

Say the twins play is stellar( 1~1.2 ppg avg, throughout), but for various other reasons(lets say injuries,+ inexperience) the team is bottom 3 league-wide. This is early Jan2017, & PO-consideration is already laughable.

 

Some significant offers float in. We retain 4 mill(so 10 mill outgoing), take on an onerous contract(expires same time as twins' contact), + land about 3 great young pieces.

 

Would you make that move? At A) TDL,  B,Offseason, or C) Refuse the notion.

 

Question is asked, assuming the twins would readily accept chance to win the Cup elsewhere.

I think the only way the Sedins are traded is if they approach management and ask for it to happen.   From what I have learned about them, and you longer term Canuck fans will know them better I am sure, my guess is they will feel the team they lead is "still in the hunt" even if they need to win all their remaining games at game 52 - that is they way they seem wired to me.

 

For better or worse, the Canucks have two of the classiest but also most "loyal" players in recent hockey memory and now that they are nearing the end of their almost certain HOF careers (no player who has won an Art Ross has not gone on to be in HOF eventually - guess there can always be a first) they are not as valuable as one would like but I think the team is "stuck" with them through this final year of their contracts.   

 

I really feel the management/ownership would not even approach them - and I know that flies in face of improving the franchise but these are VERY special players on and off the ice.   

[Rob_Zepp]

10 hours ago, clam linguine said:

Those were the days of the refs calling everything. After the Rome hit the Bruins knew they were done so they went "full retard" ....and got away with it. To the give the NHL some credit, they've have never gone back to calling games as tightly ever since.

 

The Sedins major accomplishment since 2012 has been gifting picks that should be ours to the Oilers. Nostalgia fans won the day in Vancouver and the twins never did get traded or released to a team which wanted to overpay for two old stars. Too late now.

How classy of you.

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I think the only way the Sedins are traded is if they approach management and ask for it to happen.   From what I have learned about them, and you longer term Canuck fans will know them better I am sure, my guess is they will feel the team they lead is "still in the hunt" even if they need to win all their remaining games at game 52 - that is they way they seem wired to me.

 

For better or worse, the Canucks have two of the classiest but also most "loyal" players in recent hockey memory and now that they are nearing the end of their almost certain HOF careers (no player who has won an Art Ross has not gone on to be in HOF eventually - guess there can always be a first) they are not as valuable as one would like but I think the team is "stuck" with them through this final year of their contracts.   

 

I really feel the management/ownership would not even approach them - and I know that flies in face of improving the franchise but these are VERY special players on and off the ice.   

Don't know if you checked closely, RZ, but this was a post I started last Aug..in 2016. Feels pretty outdated now, but I bumped it(don't let it die!)..in case anything happened later this yr.

 

At this point, I agree with any who simply state,"Let the twins call the shots, with how they want 2017-18 to play out." ABSOLUTELY have earned that much, & likely more.

[Rob_Zepp]

Just now, Nuxfanabroad said:

Don't know if you checked closely, RZ, but this was a post I started last Aug..in 2016. Feels pretty outdated now, but I bumped it(don't let it die!)..in case anything happened later this yr.

 

At this point, I agree with any who simply state,"Let the twins call the shots, with how they want 2017-18 to play out." ABSOLUTELY have earned that much, & likely more.

Yup, did check and I agree with you 100%.    They have earned that right for sure.   I have nothing but respect for these guys - short of players like Crosby, few in the league so the loyalty and class these two have to their franchise.    

[higgyfan]

59 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Yup, did check and I agree with you 100%.    They have earned that right for sure.   I have nothing but respect for these guys - short of players like Crosby, few in the league so the loyalty and class these two have to their franchise.    

Absolutely Rob.  Not only are they world class players, they are outstanding human beings.  I will shed a tear when the time comes (and it's coming in the near future) when they play their final game as Canucks. 

[TheGuardian_]

I posted a thread last year or so ago that had several Sedin quotes. One of their quotes had to do with winning the Stanley cup and they indicated that it was their desire to win one before they retired, that next to Olympic gold it was the only thing they needed and regarded it as a measure of success.

 

In those quotes was also a mention of being traded and they didn't say no, they said it was the business of hockey but they would never ask to be traded, it would have to be a management decision. Some of these quotes come from Sweden and it takes a bit of time to go through interviews to get the pieces, they are direct quotes though.

 

I found some of the thread, remember I didn't make this up or take it out of context,

 

What life without the Sedins could be here much quicker than most fans thought IF unsolicited statements from the Sedins over the last two years are correct. Each year these statements appear to becoming more direct, a couple of years ago the statements were kind of general, "it is the business", "these things happen", "we would deal with that if it happens" and now these pretty clear statements.

 

Quotes from the SNet sight; ( hope isn't wrong to do this)

“We haven’t won,” he said. “If you want to look back and say you had a great career, you’ve got to win the Stanley Cup.”

Henrik is more diplomatic: “Played with great teams, still haven’t been able to win. But still trying,” he said. “We were close to winning [in 2011.] That’s the only thing we’re missing.”

Now statements like that seem to indicate a willingness to be moved for an opportunity at the cup, doesn't it?

IMO, if true, which it most likely is due to who said it, then Benning should be looking into possible deals even now, you know testing the waters type stuff.

 

 

That thread garnered me several hundred negative votes, now it is common for others to follow my lead and suggest a trade.

[Canucklehead73]

I think if some team offered the world for the Sedin's, Benning would be prudent to offer the idea to the Sedin's to see if they would do a trade and return scheme. Truly a playoff run for a different team would truly be no different than say going to play in an international tourney for them. Then they could return to sign their short term retirement "support role" contract if they so wish, or join the team in another capacity. Or retire as they see fit.

 

Other than that they have earned the right to play out their careers here if they wish. It is a business though, they still have to produce to earn another contract.