[Trade] Panthers trade F Dave Bolland and F Lawson Crouse to Arizona

[Silky mitts]

15 minutes ago, oldnews said:

who is "cdc"?

A collection of amateur gms, scouts, pessimistics, delusions,  negativity.

[Butters Stoch]

To people saying Crouse is overrated just because he's not a flashy elite offensive player, he was always a considered to play a style that'd translate better to the NHL. Even though he'll never be a pt/g guy, I'm betting he'll at least be a solid 50 pt power forward. 

[Noble 6]

2 hours ago, Shift-4 said:

 The Coyotes are too poor to spend to the cap. That isn't cap management. That is just a lousy business. 

They also haven't severely overpaid on any contracts and will most likely have plenty of space to resign most of their young players in the coming seasons.

[riske1]

I can't believe how so many of you so called experts devalue Gudbrunson.

 

To compare him to Hamhuis is absolutely absurd. Hammer is a shadow of his former self.

 

The intangibles he brings to this team are absolutely what the Canucks need.

 

A leader with his attributes is rare in this sport.

 

Only a fool would not see the emense upgrade to the defense and the team in whole by his aquisition.

 

Let's discuss this further in the spring for all you doubters.

 

I am fully on board with his aquisition and believe it is one of Bennings greatest moves.

[shiznak]

13 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Are you stating that this deal makes Arizona a stronger team for this season?

 

I challenge you to look at what Arizona has lost this season compared to what they've gained.  Their is zero change they improved their team in the short term.  All there moves have been about the long term.

 

 

Fine I'll do it.

 

 

#1 Domi Hanzal Duclair

vs Sedin Sedin Eriksson

 

#2 Rieder Strome Doan

vs Baertschi Sutter Hansen

 

#3 Bolland Dauphin Vbrata

Vs Rodin Horvat Etem

 

#4

McGinn Richardson White

vs Burrows Granlund Dorsett

 

extra Crouse, Samuelsson

vs Virtanen, Greiner, Gaunce

 

 

LHD OEL, Stone, Michalek

vs Edler, Hutton, Trymakin, Sbisa, Pedan

 

RHD Goligoski, Murphy, Schenn, Connauton

vs Tanev, Gudbranson, Larsen

 

#1G

Smith vs Miller

 

#2G

Domingue vs Markstrom

 

From paper, there's not one line they have beat us for next season.  They lost players like Vermette and Boedker and replaced that with Vbrata and Bolland.   Sure they have a lot of young promising looking players, but most of them will not be on their NHL roster this year.  Maybe in a few year with some NHL experience they start to improve there roster but throwing 20 years olds into big roles, in the NHL doesn't always work like Domi and Duclair did.  Most of the time it turns out like McCann and Virtanen. 

I wouldn't say all of our lines beat theirs.

 

First line: Advantage definitely goes to the Canucks, but Domi and Duclair are two of the future stars of the NHL. Wouldn't be surprised if they both eclipse 60+ points, next year. Especially, with the addition of Goligoski. 

 

Second line: I give the advantage to Arizona, but only slightly. Rieder is a better all-round player than Bärtschi, playing with similar minutes. Sutter is obviously the more proven one when compare to Strome, but Sutter (at least to me) is more suitable as a shutdown 3rd line centermen. His offensive skills are limited, despite scoring 20 goals before. Mind you, that was only twice in his career. Strome is undoubtably the more gifted one, and is more likely to be a #1/#2 centermen in the league than Sutter. Doan/Vrbata, whoever they choose to play on the right side, are both a better option than Hansen. To me, Hansen is a bit overrated when it comes to his offensive output. Like Vrbata, he's a very streaky player, but unlike Vrbata, Hansen hasn't been a consistent 20+ goals scorer, throughout his career.

 

Third line: This line is debatable, depending on whose on these lines. Horvat is unquestionably better than Richardson, but Arizona might decide to put Bolland as their 3C, who a lot better than Richardson. Rodin is unknown, and we're not sure if he even makes the team. McGinn is a serviceable 3rd liner, who has scored 20 goals just last year and 19, two years ago. Again, both Doan/Vrbata will be a better option than Etem, who so far in his career has been a journey player. So, I would probably give the advantage to Arizona. We also can't count out Dvorak, who might get a shot with the big club. 

 

Fourth line: I'll give the advantage to the Canucks, based on Burrows and Dorsett alone. 

 

First D pairing: Advantage Arizona. Any defense pairing with OEL, automatically beats any of ours. OEL is probably a top 10 defensemen in the league. He's the player we wished Edler turned out to be in his younger years. Arguably their best player and could be a Norris candidate, in the near future. Goligoski solidified their top pairing.

 

Second D pairing: Advantage Canucks, but it's a lot closer than what people think. IMO, Stone is a lot better than Hutton, both defensively and offensively. He was arguably their second best defensemen, night in and night out last year. Some nights even better than OEL. He's essentially their verison of Tanev, but better offensively. I only give the advantage to the Canucks, because of Gudbrandson, but Michalek isn't some slouch of a defensemen.

 

Third D pairing: Advantage Canucks. Nothing much to say here. Really depends how well Murphy, Tryamkin, and Larsen all play. Sbisa is the reason why I gave the advantage to the Canucks. Schenn seem to be bust, but is a viable 6th/7th defensemen. Whereas, Sbisa could play in the top 4, if need be.

[SamJamIam]

9 hours ago, Butters Stoch said:

To people saying Crouse is overrated just because he's not a flashy elite offensive player, he was always a considered to play a style that'd translate better to the NHL. Even though he'll never be a pt/g guy, I'm betting he'll at least be a solid 50 pt power forward. 

Actually I remember the amount of playing him up in the draft. Lots of "He's young and he'll learn to use that body to generate offense even though he hasn't yet".

 

That draft Lawson fell (less than he should have IMO) for good reason. Power forwards don't stick handle the puck into the net at the NHL level. Only in junior do poorer goalies bite and over commit allowing guys like Lawson to score. Even then he didn't score much. 

 

He certainly wasn't drafted to be a Brendan Gaunce. If he was he'd have been picked MUCH lower than 11.

[cyoung]

Don't like this lol

[The Great 8]

19 hours ago, shiznak said:

I wouldn't say all of our lines beat theirs.

 

First line: Advantage definitely goes to the Canucks, but Domi and Duclair are two of the future stars of the NHL. Wouldn't be surprised if they both eclipse 60+ points, next year. Especially, with the addition of Goligoski. 

 

Second line: I give the advantage to Arizona, but only slightly. Rieder is a better all-round player than Bärtschi, playing with similar minutes. Sutter is obviously the more proven one when compare to Strome, but Sutter (at least to me) is more suitable as a shutdown 3rd line centermen. His offensive skills are limited, despite scoring 20 goals before. Mind you, that was only twice in his career. Strome is undoubtably the more gifted one, and is more likely to be a #1/#2 centermen in the league than Sutter. Doan/Vrbata, whoever they choose to play on the right side, are both a better option than Hansen. To me, Hansen is a bit overrated when it comes to his offensive output. Like Vrbata, he's a very streaky player, but unlike Vrbata, Hansen hasn't been a consistent 20+ goals scorer, throughout his career.

 

Third line: This line is debatable, depending on whose on these lines. Horvat is unquestionably better than Richardson, but Arizona might decide to put Bolland as their 3C, who a lot better than Richardson. Rodin is unknown, and we're not sure if he even makes the team. McGinn is a serviceable 3rd liner, who has scored 20 goals just last year and 19, two years ago. Again, both Doan/Vrbata will be a better option than Etem, who so far in his career has been a journey player. So, I would probably give the advantage to Arizona. We also can't count out Dvorak, who might get a shot with the big club. 

 

Fourth line: I'll give the advantage to the Canucks, based on Burrows and Dorsett alone. 

 

First D pairing: Advantage Arizona. Any defense pairing with OEL, automatically beats any of ours. OEL is probably a top 10 defensemen in the league. He's the player we wished Edler turned out to be in his younger years. Arguably their best player and could be a Norris candidate, in the near future. Goligoski solidified their top pairing.

 

Second D pairing: Advantage Canucks, but it's a lot closer than what people think. IMO, Stone is a lot better than Hutton, both defensively and offensively. He was arguably their second best defensemen, night in and night out last year. Some nights even better than OEL. He's essentially their verison of Tanev, but better offensively. I only give the advantage to the Canucks, because of Gudbrandson, but Michalek isn't some slouch of a defensemen.

 

Third D pairing: Advantage Canucks. Nothing much to say here. Really depends how well Murphy, Tryamkin, and Larsen all play. Sbisa is the reason why I gave the advantage to the Canucks. Schenn seem to be bust, but is a viable 6th/7th defensemen. Whereas, Sbisa could play in the top 4, if need be.

I remember in this thread someone was really high on domi and duclair because they scored 40pt and are bound for a breakout year. Same thing could be said about Horvat he scored 40pt last year and COULD score 60+. All I'm saying is it's no gaurantee and our first line is leaps and boundaries farther than Arizonas.

[JustABandwagoner]

20 hours ago, Butters Stoch said:

To people saying Crouse is overrated just because he's not a flashy elite offensive player, he was always a considered to play a style that'd translate better to the NHL. Even though he'll never be a pt/g guy, I'm betting he'll at least be a solid 50 pt power forward. 

I'd prefer Crouse over Virtanen 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, DontMessMe said:

I'd prefer Crouse over Virtanen 

but of crouse you do.

[pluralsight]

23 hours ago, Warhippy said:

And you strike me as a person that woukd just jump in to a conversation.  Not add anything to the conversation at hand and make a character judgement instead.

 

So hey.  Good on ya

I'm just following protocol on this forum, since CDC is primarily spread out as 10% Complaining about 2nd round draft picks being traded, 20% Other hockey related content and 70% Judgement of other poster's character.  

[UFCanuck]

3rd liners paid as 1st liners.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

Crouse was indeed overrated and questioned by others why he was rated so high in draft rankings despite questionable numbers but man, what a steal, kid is left winger version of Bo Horvat, not sure why the complain.

[cripplereh]

On 8/25/2016 at 6:59 AM, Warhippy said:

I say again.  Almost every team in our division got a lot stronger this off season.

 

We took a small step forward, the other 3 teams in the bottom of our division took strides.

 

If you cannot win in your division you cannot make the playoffs.  Hard to see how we won't fight for every point this year

 

Also, like to point out yet again.  How valuable cap space really is.  Names traded for simply cap space in the last 5 months include

 

Crouse

Chychrun

Tueroveinen

 

And I believe one or two more picks/prospects.

well we got a lot better late last year and this off season.We have two starting goalies,our D group looks faster and can play against any team,plus with the signing of Eriksson and Sutter healthy we will fight for a playoff spot.Sutter and injuries to our d made us miss the playoffs but we fought and were in most games.I see this team being 6th to 10th,but we will be better unless injuries come into play again!

 

plus wow to Bollond getting traded again with that contract!

[insomniac604]

people might see this as a stealth attack but Arizona is quietly building up an EXCELLENT youth movement.

 

you have Domi + Duclair with Strome + Dvorak on the horizon.

idc what anyone says, Crouse will be a decent middle 6 PF. maybe not this season but next.

also Bolland might very likely resume his career despite medical advice. probably for about 30 games before he's knocked out again, but enough to give AZ a push.

 

they won't get far this year. but next, with so many good players on ECL's.. I see it happening.

cheap homes, big pools, near Mexico. those young guys will be happy to sign

[shiznak]

8 hours ago, The Great 8 said:

I remember in this thread someone was really high on domi and duclair because they scored 40pt and are bound for a breakout year. Same thing could be said about Horvat he scored 40pt last year and COULD score 60+. All I'm saying is it's no gaurantee and our first line is leaps and boundaries farther than Arizonas.

That could be the case if Horvat gets to play in a larger offensive role, but chances are he probably won't with Henrik and Sutter ahead of him in the depth chart. Domi and Duclair are basically Arizona's only scoring threat, upfront.

[Bruce Boudreau]

On 8/25/2016 at 7:38 AM, ReggieBush said:

 

 

Arizona's major moves

- Vrbata, Jamie McGinn, Goligoski. A step forward yes, but I would argue Vancouver got better as a team though, and Zona still has goaltending questions.

 

Calgary's major moves 

Brian Elliot, Brouwer, Chiasson, Vey. Not sold on elliot as a #1 and Brouwer is getting old and his foot speed is not what is once was.

 

Edmonton

Puljujarvi is real good, but they gave up a 1st line forward for a Dman that imo is a poor fit for the western conference and quite frankly I believe Guddy is a better dman. And we payed less

 

Vancouver's Moves

 

Signed a 1st line forward in Eriksson, Brought in a physical shutdown top 4 dman, brought in two wildcard player who where massive for their teams overseas in Larsen and rodin. Not sure things by any stretch of the imagination but the potential for those two to have big impacts can not be ignored. Larsen as a bottom pair PP Specialist, and Rodin as a 2nd line winger capable of putting up 40-50 points. 

 

 

Did I miss something here?

 

Since when did Chychrun get traded and when did Puljujarvi go back to the Oilers?

 

Also I thought the experts said the Canucks are keeping their cap space to try to get a deal like this where they get a decent prospect from another team for some picks and and taking on a contract.

[Sean Monahan]

4 hours ago, Chip Kelly said:

Did I miss something here?

 

Since when did Chychrun get traded and when did Puljujarvi go back to the Oilers?

 

Also I thought the experts said the Canucks are keeping their cap space to try to get a deal like this where they get a decent prospect from another team for some picks and and taking on a contract.

I'd rather have no Crouse and no Bolland contract than have Crouse and Bolland's contract. Maybe JB is looking to make this sort of move but I'm glad it wasn't this one.

[LaBamba]

On August 25, 2016 at 7:02 AM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Are you stating that this deal makes Arizona a stronger team for this season?

 

I challenge you to look at what Arizona has lost this season compared to what they've gained.  Their is zero change they improved their team in the short term.  All there moves have been about the long term.

 

 

Fine I'll do it.

 

 

#1 Domi Hanzal Duclair

vs Sedin Sedin Eriksson

 

#2 Rieder Strome Doan

vs Baertschi Sutter Hansen

 

#3 Bolland Dauphin Vbrata

Vs Rodin Horvat Etem

 

#4

McGinn Richardson White

vs Burrows Granlund Dorsett

 

extra Crouse, Samuelsson

vs Virtanen, Greiner, Gaunce

 

 

LHD OEL, Stone, Michalek

vs Edler, Hutton, Trymakin, Sbisa, Pedan

 

RHD Goligoski, Murphy, Schenn, Connauton

vs Tanev, Gudbranson, Larsen

 

 

From paper, there's not one line they have beat us for next season

Rodin, Etem, Tryamkin, Granland and Larsen are not only fringe NHLers, they aren't even locks to make the team. You're going to tell me Granlund is comparable to Richardson?!?!? Any of our dmen comparable to OEL?! If you are going to compare 2 bottom feeders at least put some thought and effort into it. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

8 hours ago, LaBamba said:

Rodin, Etem, Tryamkin, Granland and Larsen are not only fringe NHLers, they aren't even locks to make the team. You're going to tell me Granlund is comparable to Richardson?!?!? Any of our dmen comparable to OEL?! If you are going to compare 2 bottom feeders at least put some thought and effort into it. 

Oh labamba your lack of understanding always amuses me.