The North Dakota Standing Rock Movement

[Violator]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So I checked into your theory, clam linguine. And it's not feasible. Your "statement" that over 180 different Aboriginal nations have united to protest this pipeline is somehow coordinated or funded by Saudi Arabia is both laughable and erroneous. 

 

Not everything has a seedy underbelly. 

Just like the tides foundation donates money to gregor.saudi Arabia will donate money foundations which give money to protestors.

 

I'm happy the native Americans are finally doing the same thing they do up here

[aGENT]

[Mike Vanderhoek]

2 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

That is actually scary. If I remember my geography correctly, the Missouri is the longest river in the US (maybe N.A.) It seems to me that a spill could affect a lot more than Standing Rock...

But this route will not affect Bismark which was apparently the initial route location for the pipeline, but the Government did not want to risk a leak in the State Capitol....weird ?

[chon derry]

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Fair enough though. I'm conflicted because I do enjoy vongole.

since were on the topic of possible bad water... i too was conflicted but with the massive green algae bloom,  the unregulated harvesting ,red tide  you really need to try calimari instead , no sense in getting sick from some pesky little bi valve.

[clam linguine]

14 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

This doesn't prove your silly conspiracy theory. Of course the Sierra Club is going to oppose pipelines. They're an environmental organization.

 

They likely protest clear cut logging as well, but it doesn't mean that their funding comes form US softwood producers. It comes from people who want to preserve nature.

 

As far as the Dakota protest goes, the story somewhat glossed over the real pertinent question, in my mind. Is the land being used for the pipeline actually owned by the Dakota tribes, or is it land under claim. In either event, there should always be consultation in such circumstances, but if the land is actually Dakota property, I'd like to know how the government can just use it against their wishes.

 

You need to direct me to ground zero for a pipeline disaster so I can lay down a wreath or two...lmao.  This fear of pipelines is so irrational it is worse than the fear of flying on a plane....it's more like the fear of going outside because a plane might land on you. More likely, the real concern of the elite environmentalistas is that pipelines make domestic oil more competitive with the oil of their foreign masters. Cancelled pipelines accomplish only one thing, shifting production elsewhere. 

 

I am cheering for the natives down there.  It might help our guys...so I am for it. (just like opec)

 

[clam linguine]

14 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The Sierra Club is working with one of the most despotic governments in the world?

 

Saudi Arabia holds debt with the US, amounting to $117,000,000,000. That's 9 zeros. Why would they purposely try to undermine a debtor?

There is no doubt about the fact that  American fracking is the single biggest threat to Saudi wealth and therefore political stability in the region.  Glad to help!

[clam linguine]

13 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I don't think there's much point in injecting any logic into that particular conversation, Phil.

 

Some people here are talking about a pipeline, while others seem to be using a pipe....

pied piper

 

[PhillipBlunt]

10 minutes ago, clam linguine said:

There is no doubt about this.   American fracking is the single biggest threat to Saudi wealth and therefore political stability in the region.  Glad to help!

Glad to help what? Spew nonsensical banter. Well if that's what you mean... thanks?

[clam linguine]

14 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Glad to help what? Spew nonsensical banter. Well if that's what you mean... thanks?

The effect of the U.S. fracking revolution on oil markets has been dramatic. It is Oil101.  I guess you didn't know.  Now you do.

[clam linguine]

On 9/16/2016 at 9:48 AM, otherwise said:

If you would be so kind as to provide a map with crossings on it along with flow direction and the loction of this First Nation on it, I would be greatful to you. I also feel it may help to illustrate the validity (or lack there of) water concerns.

OK...here is a map that shows the major  pipeline crossings in North Dakota.  The second link shows an article with the Dakota access pipeline map and the reservation location.   

 

https://ndpipelines.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/nd-major-oil-pipelines-feb-20161.pdf

http://www.vox.com/2016/9/9/12862958/dakota-access-pipeline-fight

[RUPERTKBD]

13 hours ago, clam linguine said:

You need to direct me to ground zero for a pipeline disaster so I can lay down a wreath or two...lmao.  This fear of pipelines is so irrational it is worse than the fear of flying on a plane....it's more like the fear of going outside because a plane might land on you. More likely, the real concern of the elite environmentalistas is that pipelines make domestic oil more competitive with the oil of their foreign masters. Cancelled pipelines accomplish only one thing, shifting production elsewhere. 

 

I am cheering for the natives down there.  It might help our guys...so I am for it. (just like opec)

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're claiming here. Are you saying that pipeline spills don't happen? If you, you're woefully uninformed.

[Warhippy]

Just now, RUPERTKBD said:

I'm not entirely sure what you're claiming here. Are you saying that pipeline spills don't happen? If you, you're woefully uninformed.

Hand his lazy trolling arse this and tell his lazy arse to look for himself.

 

Finally found a life form lower than troll and we found it on CDC!

 

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=pipeline explosions

[PhillipBlunt]

13 hours ago, clam linguine said:

The effect of the U.S. fracking revolution on oil markets has been dramatic. It is Oil101.  I guess you didn't know.  Now you do.

I'm pretty sure you're the one that doesn't know, but please continue with your attempt at providing what you believe to be relevant information. 

[otherwise]

12 hours ago, clam linguine said:

OK...here is a map that shows the major  pipeline crossings in North Dakota.  The second link shows an article with the Dakota access pipeline map and the reservation location.   

 

https://ndpipelines.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/nd-major-oil-pipelines-feb-20161.pdf

http://www.vox.com/2016/9/9/12862958/dakota-access-pipeline-fight

Here is a map I made because those maps aren't the greatest, the 1st didn't even show any water bodies.

 

I included Bismarck because in the vox article you posted it mentioned that the pipeline crossing the river was supposed to be much closer to there.

If you look at google maps there is a huge section of Reserve land to the west of the river. There aren't any major centres for quite a way.

 

As for your statement:

14 hours ago, clam linguine said:

You need to direct me to ground zero for a pipeline disaster so I can lay down a wreath or two...lmao.  This fear of pipelines is so irrational it is worse than the fear of flying on a plane....it's more like the fear of going outside because a plane might land on you. More likely, the real concern of the elite environmentalistas is that pipelines make domestic oil more competitive with the oil of their foreign masters. Cancelled pipelines accomplish only one thing, shifting production elsewhere. 

 

I am cheering for the natives down there.  It might help our guys...so I am for it. (just like opec)

 

you could just go somewhere near Maidestone SK, that spill on July 20 that spilled somewhere between 200 000- 250 000 L  of crude oil into the North Saskatchewan River. Three cities have just been given the ok to start pumping water from the river again. It didn't get many headlines outside of the province because imo there weren't enough people effected, this is the same concern that the people protesting have.  Water is needed for life but it doesn't seem to matter as  much as profits and stock prices.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/crews-dig-up-breached-husky-pipeline-cause-of-oil-leak-still-unknown/article31214098/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/husky-oil-spill-melfort-north-battleford-prince-albert-north-sask-river-1.3765654

[-DLC-]

Rod, with the hit and run.   Waiting for you to come back to explain your one word bit of insight, "Progress".  If you don't, it's rather pointless - how about a well thought out post?

 

People using their voice to oppose things that show little regard for people or the planet but are greed based IS progress. 

 

Or is this progress?

 

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/09/bentley_declares_state_of_emer.html

 

 

 

 

 

[clam linguine]

21 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I'm not entirely sure what you're claiming here. Are you saying that pipeline spills don't happen? If you, you're woefully uninformed.

There is no ground zero for pipeline spills because on the rare occasion there is an issue, the real environmental damage is negligible.

 

Why are new domestic crude oil pipelines the only ones of concern to protesters?  Why are old pipelines- which are infinitely more likely to rupture- not of concern?  Maybe because there is foreign money available to protest safe, new pipelines because it can inhibit domestic production.  There is no money available to protest comparatively "dangerous" old pipelines because they will just get fixed enabling the flow of domestic oil to continue.

 

Why are you behind the pipeline protests?  What is the alternative? I am sure you know pipelines are the safest and cheapest way to transport liquids and gasses.  We are sitting on top of them right now.

[clam linguine]

20 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I'm pretty sure you're the one that doesn't know, but please continue with your attempt at providing what you believe to be relevant information. 

Well thanks!  I believe I will go on...a bit.  Here, I will bring you up to date in point form.

 

- OPEC (Saudis) keep the oil price high by limiting production (+$100)

-Americans are able to use fracking technology to revive old oil fields because of this high price of oil  (2011?)

-Americans (actually Canadians) perfect fracking- some wells make money as low as 45 bucks a barrel 

-American production skyrockets, Saudis see they will no longer be able to control the price

-Saudis flood the market with oil in 2014 to kill off the American producers (30  dollar oil last year)

-Drilling stops in Canada and US

 

So the price is starting to recover recently with some North American drilling  beginning again. We will see what happens.  The producers with the lowest costs will survive.  Will the oil come from OPEC, the US or Canada?  Lowest cost wins, without pipelines, it will be OPEC, unless prices rise enough to make insignificant the extra costs to fill Warren Buffets trains.

 

The Saudis need 85 dollar oil to meet their domestic budget needs, if memory serves correct. Their huge war chest of money is melting away fast.  At these prices they could piss it all away in 5 years or less.  If they stop their big budget domestic spending, it is widely thought that the house of Saud will be overthrown.  I stand to be corrected.

 

 

[clam linguine]

9 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Hand his lazy trolling arse this and tell his lazy arse to look for himself.

 

Finally found a life form lower than troll and we found it on CDC!

 

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=pipeline explosions

hehe...you're calling me lazy with THAT lame reference.

[clam linguine]

20 hours ago, otherwise said:

Here is a map I made because those maps aren't the greatest, the 1st didn't even show any water bodies.

 

I included Bismarck because in the vox article you posted it mentioned that the pipeline crossing the river was supposed to be much closer to there.

If you look at google maps there is a huge section of Reserve land to the west of the river. There aren't any major centres for quite a way.

 

As for your statement:

you could just go somewhere near Maidestone SK, that spill on July 20 that spilled somewhere between 200 000- 250 000 L  of crude oil into the North Saskatchewan River. Three cities have just been given the ok to start pumping water from the river again. It didn't get many headlines outside of the province because imo there weren't enough people effected, this is the same concern that the people protesting have.  Water is needed for life but it doesn't seem to matter as  much as profits and stock prices.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/crews-dig-up-breached-husky-pipeline-cause-of-oil-leak-still-unknown/article31214098/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/husky-oil-spill-melfort-north-battleford-prince-albert-north-sask-river-1.3765654

This may have been the worst Canadian oil pipeline incident ever, but I expect it to be less damaging to the environment than one day of weed and feed in any one of our cities. You write that profits and stock prices are more important than water,  yet I see no evidence  of lasting damage to any water body even though we live on a veritable spiderweb of pipelines.

 

Your map is good but it doesn't show the multiple crossings upstream.  

[clam linguine]

On 9/17/2016 at 2:35 PM, debluvscanucks said:

Rod, with the hit and run.   Waiting for you to come back to explain your one word bit of insight, "Progress".  If you don't, it's rather pointless - how about a well thought out post?

 

People using their voice to oppose things that show little regard for people or the planet but are greed based IS progress. 

 

Or is this progress?

 

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/09/bentley_declares_state_of_emer.html

 

 

 

 

 

Since Rod isn't answering , and I am not sure he doesn't share your views anyways, I will ask you a question.

 

Imagine that your children, brothers, sisters and virtually everyone you know... is dependent on the airline industry for work. They are stewardesses, pilots, mechanics, aircraft manufacturers... etc.   Now imagine that many Canadians have decided that, because planes can crash occasionally, we need to shut down that industry! They point almost daily to horrible examples like the one below to strengthen their resolve.

 

 

 

Or sometimes ....this

 

Or sadly...this

 

 

 

Its obvious...we must ban this scourge of air travel and strictly use trucks and trains from now on.  Who could argue?

 

But then, they rationalize.  Maybe...as long as its a foreign airline and foreign planes...we can still fly.  Our conscience will be clear!  We wont be contributing to this aerial carnage, but we can still fly around ad nauseam.  Yea...that's it.   Your family and friends will be happy knowing they are no longer contributing to this carnage ...not to mention the coincidental environmental disasters at the crash site.

 

How would you feel about that?

 

BTW...the disaster your link was referring to was a possible gas shortage, not the oil in the picture.  Here is a real environmental disaster.  Imagine this on the denuded mountainsides....forever.

 

 It gets old fast.