What sports writers don't seem to see

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, TimberWolf said:

We're a one line team with a slow defense that can't score and too slow on the transition to capitilize on mistakes which is the only way a trap team like we have assembled finds success.

 

While there are some pieces to build upon, assuming Benning stops panic trading and losing assets for nothing, this year should be a low expectation year again. So predicting us missing the playoffs or even bottom five is not exactly out to lunch or just being a hater. Oiler fans think their shiny new toy will catapult them every year too. 

*Put Eriksson on the 2nd. Two line team.

**Our D is not slow. It likely won't contribute a ton to offense though.

[davydgoliath]

9 hours ago, Aircool said:

Remember when people thought Jannik Hansen was going to break out and be a perennial 20 goal scorer? Didn't work out so well did it? I like the player, but he's a 3rd line winger through and through. Not saying Bo Horvat has plateau'd at such a young age... But to expect 60 points is ridiculous. We should be happy if he breaks 50... But even that I'd doubt.

 

I'm not saying it's a sin to get bigger, I'm fine with that. But you make an assumption that Gudbranson was both worth the cost of acquisition and is a shutdown quality defenseman.... Yet none of the evidence suggests that. People just assume he is a good defender because he is big, that's not evidence of anything other than he is big. Chris Tanev is good defensively and Jared Cowen is horrible... Size isn't really a factor in terms of evaluating how good a player is defensively, it just helps with hitting harder and clearing the crease. These aren't insignificant, but they hardly determine success as a defenseman.

 

We don't need more bottom 6 forwards and bottom pairing defenseman. We have 2 third lines and a 4th line. We're fine in that department. Our issue moving into the future is acquirining Top-6 forwards and Top pairing defensemen. They aren't easy to acquire and we have virtually no such prospects in the pipeline. Benning is doing a good job at picking out players who look to be able to play in the NHL one day, and they will do well as the players that surround the core... We are just missing the core (it's kind of important.)

 

Benning isn't getting his licks in as the new guy to the old boys club, he's just taking a licking. While I generally don't like John Chayka's trades in Arizona, some media members do and according to them anyways I don't see how he's taking his licks... This is a completely garbage statement, it means nothing and you have no logic to support it. It's just a machination to justify JB's incompetence when it comes to trading.

 

There is still very little in the way of "exciting" talent in our prospect pool, it just has some depth in terms of having players with NHL potential... Still many other teams like Winnipeg are just swimming in far better prospects. Anaheim is another great example.

 

Of course you can say that Eriksson at 31, will not be worth his 6 year contract that really he probably is barely worth today. He'll have a good year or two playing with the Sedins then age will catch up to him, and simultaneously with a Sedin retirement he will fall off of a cliff. Everyone here knows it's coming, it's a trainwreck waiting to happen. Complete waste of future cap space. 

 

So you think that trading away picks and a young player in Jared McCann, who for the record I said about 6 months ago now I thought would be traded at the draft, and that I wanted traded at the draft (just not for a player like Gudbranson), to acquire a Gudbranson is worth it to finish 24th? Just so we can get a crappier draft choice? I mean it's really hard to justify that, or at least it should be.

I find it funny how, with one breath, you chastise people for making assumptions about how good Gudbranson will be and with the next you make assumptions about Ericsson's imminent and rapid decline.
As if you have the only crystal ball that actually tells the future. 
I disagree with your assessment on every player. And my crystal ball tells me that your crystal ball is a cynical piece of crap.

Guess we'll have to touch base in April, see who's crystal ball is the real deal.

P.S. Are you Tony Gallager? That would explain so much.

[luckylager]

2 hours ago, LaBamba said:

The difference between the "analysts" and the people on this board is the "analysts" don't have an "emotional" "attachment" to the team. If you have no "emotional" "attachment" to this team you will see nothing after the Sedin's Line. 

Wish I could buckle down and really fight this statement, but the economist in me knows you're not wrong..

 

I've written it before, @J.R. just did - Eriksson should be on the 2nd line. (Some O-zone draws and PP with the twins)

A second line of  Baer - Bo/Sutter -Eriksson would a be a real threat. At least we'd have two lines...

[TheGuardian_]

2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

There's a number of categories where inattentive journalist fail. Vcr injuries last season was a huge factor. And journalists are choosing to look at the individual list of prospects when in fact what they're actually doing is considering youngster such as Virtanen, Horvat and heck Hutton ( 1st year pro ) as veterans. Even Baertschi at 23 and Tryamkin at 22. So while the actual roster is already very young ( 7 players under 24 on the current roster ) now you add in Boeser, Demko, Juolevi. Then we have a strong youthfull future. The journalist are looking only at a list of either vets or prospect  and not considering them combined.  

Likewise there are a number of categories that fans fail to look at.

Journalist look and compare all the teams in a division, the schedule, compare youth to youth, depth to depth.

An example, Edler probably is not top line defenseman on MOST teams now and while the Sedins would still be first line forwards on some teams, there getting to be more and more that they would not be.

When looking at the youth just within the division, who on the team compares to McDavid, Johnny Hocky, Drasaitl, Domi, OEL, Sequin, or any of the other kids playing in the world cup?

Boeser MIGHT be able to be effective in the NHL, but his chance isn't for another two years and by then the Sedins might be gone putting huge pressure on him.

Demko again isn't an impact goalie for years yet.

OJ could maybe make the team next year, maybe even this year, what does that say about the defence then? It could be he is exceptional, but is he on the level of Hedman, Ekblad or Doughty? Hedman still took a few years before he was the go to guy in Tampa.

 

All goal scoring and points should be up this year on every team IF the goalie equipment is reduced in size, so using scoring stats might not be the best in evaluating just how good a player is.

 

Is Horvat a #2 center on Edmonton, Arizona, Anaheim, Calgary or Colorado? He might fight for a spot on some of those teams, but for the most part they are already secure in those positions. The weakness of the Canucks top six forwards makes him more likely to achieve that spot. Just because a player on one team gets more icetime ( and points as a result) does no make that player as valuable to all the teams.

 

Journalists look more to the big picture of all the teams rather than just pulling out the pom poms for one team, there are exception though, the reporter for a local rag won't have a job long unless he supports the team.

[logic]

quit feeding the trolls.. writers have incentive to sh!! talk the Canucks because it brings stupid amounts of traffic to their blog/site which in turn puts money in their pocket 

[aGENT]

22 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

An example, Edler probably is not top line defenseman on MOST teams now ...

 

When looking at the youth just within the division, who on the team compares to McDavid, Johnny Hocky, Drasaitl, Domi, OEL, Sequin, or any of the other kids playing in the world cup?

Boeser MIGHT be able to be effective in the NHL, but his chance isn't for another two years and by then the Sedins might be gone putting huge pressure on him.

Demko again isn't an impact goalie for years yet.

OJ could maybe make the team next year, maybe even this year, what does that say about the defence then? It could be he is exceptional, but is he on the level of Hedman, Ekblad or Doughty? Hedman still took a few years before he was the go to guy in Tampa.

Edler is a #2D on most teams. #3 on a team with stacked D.

 

We didn't have a 'McDavid' when we went to the cup final either FYI. Neither did Boston when they beat us. Most teams don't.

 

We're in the early/middle of a rebuild, our prospects haven't had the chance yet to become a 'Seguin', 'OEL' etc. Baer, Horvat, Boeser and Virtanen is a good start towards a rebuilt top 6. Juolevi, Tanev, Hutton, Gudbranson, Tryamkin, Stetcher, Subban, Brisebois etc a good start on D. We'll see how it ends up when it's done. You can't directly compare that to teams who acquired their new cores 3-6+ years ago and are already playing in the NHL.

 

Yup, Demko is like 3+ years away...we still have Markstrom though, right?

 

Boeser could very well make the club next season with the Sedins still very much here.

 

If OJ makes the club next year it means he's very, VERY good and we can likely move one of Edler/Tanev for a nice forward to supplement Baer/Horvat/Boeser/Virtanen. The horrors! 

[LaBamba]

42 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Wish I could buckle down and really fight this statement, but the economist in me knows you're not wrong..

 

I've written it before, @J.R. just did - Eriksson should be on the 2nd line. (Some O-zone draws and PP with the twins)

A second line of  Baer - Bo/Sutter -Eriksson would a be a real threat. At least we'd have two lines...

I agree, that's basically what happened to Vrbata. They used the Sedin's as bait to reel in the big fish UFA's. 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

I agree, that's basically what happened to Vrbata. They used the Sedin's as bait to reel in the big fish UFA's. 

No player is ever guaranteed any spot in a lineup.

[Fred65]

Quote

McDavid, Johnny Hocky, Drasaitl, Domi, OEL, Sequin, or any of the other kids playing in the world cup?

Hey remember those players are not all on one team !!  and as usual we tend as a group to over rate the opposition and look down at our own roster. ( grass is always greener on the other side ) Years of inadequacy has brought the Oilers some riches ( top end picks in the draft)  but they're still far from being a team. How can that be ?..... with all that talent they still struggle  ... maybe over hyped

[LaBamba]

37 minutes ago, J.R. said:

No player is ever guaranteed any spot in a lineup.

Come on now Mr cliche. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, LaBamba said:

Come on now Mr cliche. 

Do you honestly think if the Canucks purposely continued to 'bait and switch' as you're suggesting, that word wouldn't get around?

 

Yet Eriksson signed here anyway...hmmm

 

Players aren't morons. Canuck management aren't morons. You don't think Eriksson/his agent could look at our depth chart and surmise that to make us a 2 line team he may in fact play a lot of 5v5 away from the twins? Do you think none of this was discussed during negotiations and Eriksson just went: 'Derp, I bet I play with the twinz right? Where I sign'?

 

Come on LB.

 

 

[LaBamba]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Do you honestly think if the Canucks purposely continued to 'bait and switch' as you're suggesting, that word wouldn't get around?

 

Yet Eriksson signed here anyway...hmmm

 

Players aren't morons. Canuck management aren't morons. You don't think Eriksson/his agent could look at our depth chart and surmise that to make us a 2 line team he may in fact play a lot of 5v5 away from the twins? Do you think none of this was discussed during negotiations and Eriksson just went: 'Derp, I bet I play with the twinz right? Where I sign'?

 

Come on LB.

 

 

Whoa now. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

Most readers can't see how they're being emotionally manipulated for traffic and ongoing revenue.

 

Fans give too much credibility and trust to writers who don't deserve it. Just because they're on TV, the radio, or write for a mainstream outlet doesn't mean they're an expert. It means they have a job. 

 

As far as writers go, especially online, many aren't being hired because they know sports, they're being hired to write in ways to generate revenue and readers.

 

So, imagine an editor having to say to a writer ... "Hey, we know your pro-Canucks pieces are great, but no one reads them. Your columns aren't getting any traffic. We need you to take a different approach so we can pay you. Why not go to CDC and see what fans get worked up about and write about those topics? Just try to make it look credible. You can keep your integrity or keep getting paid. Your call."

 

And that's where much of the media is today.

 

 

[TheGuardian_]

3 hours ago, J.R. said:

Do you honestly think if the Canucks purposely continued to 'bait and switch' as you're suggesting, that word wouldn't get around?

 

Yet Eriksson signed here anyway...hmmm

 

Players aren't morons. Canuck management aren't morons. You don't think Eriksson/his agent could look at our depth chart and surmise that to make us a 2 line team he may in fact play a lot of 5v5 away from the twins? Do you think none of this was discussed during negotiations and Eriksson just went: 'Derp, I bet I play with the twinz right? Where I sign'?

 

Come on LB.

 

 

No, the players and their agents aren't morons, that is evidenced by Eriksson's contract. Do you have to wonder which side of that deal won? Right now it looks like the player won, big time, a front loaded, signing bonus contract is a death nail for the team, basically he is untradeable now, unless the Nucks sweeten the pot with a prospect or draft pick, they can't even retain half his salary to get a deal a done.

So, IMO, it is a moronic contract, whose fault is that?

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, TheGuardian_ said:

No, the players and their agents aren't morons, that is evidenced by Eriksson's contract. Do you have to wonder which side of that deal won? Right now it looks like the player won, big time, a front loaded, signing bonus contract is a death nail for the team, basically he is untradeable now, unless the Nucks sweeten the pot with a prospect or draft pick, they can't even retain half his salary to get a deal a done.

So, IMO, it is a moronic contract, whose fault is that?

The cap hit I'm not all that concerned about. The term is the real downside to that deal.

 

But it's what it costs to attract a top free agent to a non playoff team. C'est la vie.

[TheGuardian_]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

The cap hit I'm not all that concerned about. The term is the real downside to that deal.

 

But it's what it costs to attract a top free agent to a non playoff team. C'est la vie.

Yeah, you're right.

Remember the heady days when the top free agents came to Vancouver and even signed for a home town discount.

[aGENT]

Just now, TheGuardian_ said:

Yeah, you're right.

Remember the heady days when the top free agents came to Vancouver and even signed for a home town discount.

That's what happens when you're a contender/favourite. 

 

People really shouldn't be shocked by this (or a great many other things Canuck related). The context is always right there if you're willing to look for it. Too many people walking around with blinders on.

[Crabcakes]

9 hours ago, TimberWolf said:

We're a one line team with a slow defense that can't score and too slow on the transition to capitilize on mistakes which is the only way a trap team like we have assembled finds success.

 

While there are some pieces to build upon, assuming Benning stops panic trading and losing assets for nothing, this year should be a low expectation year again. So predicting us missing the playoffs or even bottom five is not exactly out to lunch or just being a hater. Oiler fans think their shiny new toy will catapult them every year too. 

Panic trading?  Care to expand on this?  I've seen nothing that isn't methodical and according to plan and filling team needs.

 

The only trade you could seriously take exception to imo is McCann for Gudbranson.  But Guddy fills a gigantic hole.  The difficulty arguing for this trade is we haven't seen Gudbranson play for the Canucks yet. 

[iceman64]

8 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Hey remember those players are not all on one team !!  and as usual we tend as a group to over rate the opposition and look down at our own roster. ( grass is always greener on the other side ) Years of inadequacy has brought the Oilers some riches ( top end picks in the draft)  but they're still far from being a team. How can that be ?..... with all that talent they still struggle  ... maybe over hyped

 

8 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Hey remember those players are not all on one team !!  and as usual we tend as a group to over rate the opposition and look down at our own roster. ( grass is always greener on the other side ) Years of inadequacy has brought the Oilers some riches ( top end picks in the draft)  but they're still far from being a team. How can that be ?..... with all that talent they still struggle  ... maybe over hyped

Edmonton's problem was from drafting so many 1st's that most of them (no not all) were all about "me" and with the me attitude it's not that easy to change that prima donna type to a team "us" type and some never get that far..  so imagine a hand full of them in edmonton like the rangers had for a few yrs and didn't get very far.  Same thing...

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, Crabcakes said:

Panic trading?  Care to expand on this?  I've seen nothing that isn't methodical and according to plan and filling team needs.

 

The only trade you could seriously take exception to imo is McCann for Gudbranson.  But Guddy fills a gigantic hole.  The difficulty arguing for this trade is we haven't seen Gudbranson play for the Canucks yet. 

I agree with the first part especially and obviously that takes time, Mc for Guddy did in fact help fill a hole and a big GLARING one at that so i'd do the same thing any day of the week...

 

Methodical is very much correct, from Goalie on out is being worked (markstrom and demko behind miller...  D-men as you mentioned with Guddy and other's being looked over while a few forward holes will be filled as well with trades or FA's but Benning is also working on depth as he learned in a hurry when we got slaughtered on injuries more that most teams and it wasn't just last year either.