[Rumour] Kucherov Offer Sheet?

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I think moving forward, we're going to see that change now that Bennig has largely filled the age gap.

Yeah, I agree. I think he already tried to last draft (Hamhuis, etc) but unfortunately couldn't secure the return (not gonna get into reasons why--horse is well beaten already). But I expect the plan moving forward is to keep (and add) picks as much as possible.

 

Wasn't trying to stir the pot (and certainly wasn't making a pro tank argument). Just felt the point (re: needing those 2nd round "darts" to actually hit bullseyes) needed making (and wanted to make it before a tanker came along ).

[coastal.view]

2 hours ago, JohnLocke said:

If we should offer sheet anyone, it's Gaudreau. 

 

Sign him for 8.5milx8.

If Calgary matches, we've managed to screw Calgary for the next 8 years.

If Calgary doesn't match, we get Johnny Hockey. 

a stupid suggestion which lacks logic as another poster has pointed out

calgary is screwed by this contract yet somehow the nucks are not

and also 

8 year contracts can only be offered by a team to an existing player

every other team is limited to a 7 year offer

so your suggestion contains another serious flaw

[bloodycanuckleheads]

In cases such as this, absolutely no one here understands the value of picks.  So, everyone is saying that our 1st, 2nd & 3rd is worth way more than Kucherov, are they?

 

Well, here is a refresher on what draft picks are actually worth.

 

Most everyone projects us as a bubble team.  So, the picks we are speaking about are roughly #10, #40, and #70.  So, let's just look up what those are worth:  4.43, 2.96 and 2.46 points.
 

Quote

5 - NHL Regular, 350+ NHL games 
4 - Fringe NHLer, 200+ NHL games
3 - Very Good Minor Leaguer, 50-200 NHL games
2 - Minor Leaguer, under 50 NHL games
1 - 10 or fewer NHL games

 

That translates to a journeyman who's never quite good enough to make the show full-time, a good career AHL'er and a regular career AHL'er.

On our team, that would translate as roughly:  Linden Vey, Richard Bachman and Carter Bancks (if we signed him).

 

For Kucherov.

 

And everyone here is saying that Vey, Bachman and Bancks are worth so much more than Kucherov it's funny!...

 

Everyone here always says how valuable 1st round picks are - but just look at the above!  The 10th overall pick only gets you a crappy player (on average).  Only top-5 picks make a difference (in the long run).  Everything outside of the top-5 is a crap-shoot.  We should be trading these picks (seeing as all the other teams over-value them so much), not hoarding them.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

In cases such as this, absolutely no one here understands the value of picks.  So, everyone is saying that our 1st, 2nd & 3rd is worth way more than Kucherov, are they?

 

Well, here is a refresher on what draft picks are actually worth.

 

Most everyone projects us as a bubble team.  So, the picks we are speaking about are roughly #10, #40, and #70.  So, let's just look up what those are worth:  4.43, 2.96 and 2.46 points.
 

That translates to a journeyman who's never quite good enough to make the show full-time, a good career AHL'er and a regular career AHL'er.

On our team, that would translate as roughly:  Linden Vey, Richard Bachman and Carter Bancks (if we signed him).

 

For Kucherov.

 

And everyone here is saying that Vey, Bachman and Bancks are worth so much more than Kucherov it's funny!...

 

Everyone here always says how valuable 1st round picks are - but just look at the above!  The 10th overall pick only gets you a crappy player (on average).  Only top-5 picks make a difference (in the long run).  Everything outside of the top-5 is a crap-shoot.  We should be trading these picks (seeing as all the other teams over-value them so much), not hoarding them.

Also fair to note that 2017 is not considered a strong draft.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, JohnLocke said:

If we should offer sheet anyone, it's Gaudreau. 

 

Sign him for 8.5milx8.

If Calgary matches, we've managed to screw Calgary for the next 8 years.

If Calgary doesn't match, we get Johnny Hockey. 

LOL.  That was great - and actually not a bad idea.  Traditionally we don't trade big names or even modest roster players to Calgary or EDM so its not like we would be losing a partner (we don't have one anyways).  Burke would be fuming.  

[mll]

1 hour ago, Raymond Luxury Yacht said:

To me the question is the value of our 1st, 2nd and 3rd picks.  What could we get if we were to dangle that on the open market? If Kucherov is a definitive target then great, but is there not someone who is better value?  I'm not suggesting there is, but it certainly raises the question.  I would be leery to make an offersheet, it seems like bad value unless you are specifically targeting a player for a specific role.  "Scoring" isn't specific enough of a role for the cost of Kucherov. 

It's not 1st, 2nd and 3rd but 4 x 1st round picks.

For compensation - it's divided by maximum 5 years even if the contract is longer.  So anything above 47M - translates into 4 x 1st round picks.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, timberz21 said:

It's funny if Calgary matches they are screwed......but if we do sign him with the same contract terms we are winners?  Logic?

I got the logic. Vancouver would be pushing up the value and the term that he will likely get (consider what Stamkos just signed for...he's no Stamkos..yet), therefore effectively limiting their cap long term if they matched it.  Vancouver has nobody close to this in the system or on the team, so we would get a star (probably super star) for some picks.   Instant core player to build the team around.  Sure he didn't put in that VAN could only get him for 7 years - but that's nit-picking, or that if Benning really wanted to get him he would probably have offer closer to 10 mill.  The cap space is an issue no doubt, but Burrows if off the books at the end of the year, and maybe he convinces Edler to go to a contender for a draft pick.  The odds of this happening are small, but it is creative.

 

We don't trade players with this team as it is, so it isn't like we would be losing a partner over it either (when I say don't trade, I mean core or even support players, Bear worked out better than Calgary would have liked).  

 

Plus we all know how much Burke loves getting his players poached (ala Penner, ANA days) and watching him on TV all red faced and blustery, tie untied because of course that means he's the hardest worker in hockey (or that laziest).  Maybe Burke/Benning could be the new Lowe/Burke and we could look forward to them duking it out in a barn.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

10 minutes ago, mll said:

It's not 1st, 2nd and 3rd but 4 x 1st round picks.

For compensation - it's divided by maximum 5 years even if the contract is longer.  So anything above 47M - translates into 4 x 1st round picks.

Well that changes everything!  There is no way there is value in that offersheet.  Maybe for McJesus or similar, but def not for Kucherov.

[-AJ-]

2 hours ago, thejazz97 said:

Bud. Kuch would be on the first line easy.

I don't see the twins and Eriksson being split up. I think he'd be on the "2nd line", which would really be more of a "1B line".

[luckylager]

14 minutes ago, mll said:

It's not 1st, 2nd and 3rd but 4 x 1st round picks.

For compensation - it's divided by maximum 5 years even if the contract is longer.  So anything above 47M - translates into 4 x 1st round picks.

Say what? 

Glad I read that before I started calling people morons...

 

Typical Eklund trash. No way JB throws 4x1st rounders for Kuch.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

34 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

In cases such as this, absolutely no one here understands the value of picks.  So, everyone is saying that our 1st, 2nd & 3rd is worth way more than Kucherov, are they?

 

Well, here is a refresher on what draft picks are actually worth.

 

Most everyone projects us as a bubble team.  So, the picks we are speaking about are roughly #10, #40, and #70.  So, let's just look up what those are worth:  4.43, 2.96 and 2.46 points.
 

That translates to a journeyman who's never quite good enough to make the show full-time, a good career AHL'er and a regular career AHL'er.

On our team, that would translate as roughly:  Linden Vey, Richard Bachman and Carter Bancks (if we signed him).

 

For Kucherov.

 

And everyone here is saying that Vey, Bachman and Bancks are worth so much more than Kucherov it's funny!...

 

Everyone here always says how valuable 1st round picks are - but just look at the above!  The 10th overall pick only gets you a crappy player (on average).  Only top-5 picks make a difference (in the long run).  Everything outside of the top-5 is a crap-shoot.  We should be trading these picks (seeing as all the other teams over-value them so much), not hoarding them.

I don't totally agree.  Not every first rounder is good, I'll give you that, but if you don't have any picks you can't get the Nate Mackinnons or Jamie Benns of the league.  To get the young top end talent you need to draft it.  It's not an exact science, but how else do you get them?  GMs don't trade a "sure thing" for a pick, they trade unreached young potential, aging players, bad contracts and question marks for picks.  For every number of Linden Vey's, there is a Jamie Benn.  You have to play that game to win. 

[GB5]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Does this count as a real source?  Many of you posters here have more credibility than Hockey Buzz - SERIOUSLY!  

It's a time tested fact at HockeyBuzz that if they throw Vancouver's name into a rumour from time to time then they get more hits. This is pretty much just their marketing strategy which does not have any reliance on fact.

[Ronaldoescobar]

First: Offer sheets are horrible and really put a target on the back of the team and GM for retribution.. 

Second: Tampa would probably match

Third: Vancouver's young guns will be the target of offer sheets next year (due to everyone hating Vancouver so its ok for them to do it to us) so we will already have enough on our plate.

[flickyoursedin]

I'd offer sheet them. Gms take it very personal which sucks. However on the bright side if we do offer sheet it could be swept away very quickly with Vegas taking a player from every team in the expansion lottery.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

3 hours ago, JohnLocke said:

If we should offer sheet anyone, it's Gaudreau. 

 

Sign him for 8.5milx8.

If Calgary matches, we've managed to screw Calgary for the next 8 years.

If Calgary doesn't match, we get Johnny Hockey. 

[EdgarM]

Would love to see Vancouver acquire Kucherov but a trade would be more sensible. I see (dare I say) a lot of Bure in Kucherov. Has hockey smarts where he knows where to be at the right time to score goals. You can't teach that as its like having a 6th sense. He has a great shot from anywhere. He is definitely worth any trade we have available as he WILL replace the Sedins when they retire Guaranteed!!!! Been waiting( a very long time) for a player like this since the departure of the Russian Rocket!

[VIC_CITY]

I'd def do a 1st + 3rd for Kucherov. That would be an amazing deal. No way Benning does it though. I'd bet the farm that we don't see an offer sheet from JB during his tenure as GM.

[Hugor Hill]

I just want somebody to give Kucherov an offer sheet just to (expletive) with cheap ass Stevie Y.

 

 

 

[Provost]

2 hours ago, mll said:

It's not 1st, 2nd and 3rd but 4 x 1st round picks.

For compensation - it's divided by maximum 5 years even if the contract is longer.  So anything above 47M - translates into 4 x 1st round picks.

You are assuming that the offer sheet would be for longer... no one does that.

 

It doesn't hurt him to sign for 5 years as he is in his prime when it expires.  Way better than some sort of bridge deal Tampa Bay can afford and would offer.

[timberz21]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

I got the logic. Vancouver would be pushing up the value and the term that he will likely get (consider what Stamkos just signed for...he's no Stamkos..yet), therefore effectively limiting their cap long term if they matched it.  Vancouver has nobody close to this in the system or on the team, so we would get a star (probably super star) for some picks.   Instant core player to build the team around.  Sure he didn't put in that VAN could only get him for 7 years - but that's nit-picking, or that if Benning really wanted to get him he would probably have offer closer to 10 mill.  The cap space is an issue no doubt, but Burrows if off the books at the end of the year, and maybe he convinces Edler to go to a contender for a draft pick.  The odds of this happening are small, but it is creative.

 

We don't trade players with this team as it is, so it isn't like we would be losing a partner over it either (when I say don't trade, I mean core or even support players, Bear worked out better than Calgary would have liked).  

 

Plus we all know how much Burke loves getting his players poached (ala Penner, ANA days) and watching him on TV all red faced and blustery, tie untied because of course that means he's the hardest worker in hockey (or that laziest).  Maybe Burke/Benning could be the new Lowe/Burke and we could look forward to them duking it out in a barn.

What about our cap space?  You make it seem like if he signs for us we get all the pros and no cons but if Calgary signs him they get all the cons and no pros.

 

not exactly how it works