For Draftists/TankNation Only: What's a Realistic Well-Thought Out Plan for Next Few Years?

[canacks1970]

Just now, appleboy said:

I think we are the right track. Especially if we make a couple of deals and we slowly slip to the bottom of the league.

I Agree that we're on the right track . It's going to take some time to rebuild. Burke and Pat Quinn  went through the same thing.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I look at a team like the Hurricanes and they seem like they are on the right track. 

 

The have an abundance of young (already in the NHL) D, all under the age of 25:  Slavin, Pesce, Hanifin, Faulk, Murphy,

 

The have solid group of forwards under the age of 25:

Skinner, Lindholm Rask, Aho, Teravaninen, McGinn

 

They have a number of exciting prospects:

Fluery, Mckeown, Bean, Gauthier, Kuokkanen

 

They tend to only trade picks for young "established" NHL players:

Lack & Teravaninen.

 

They aren't afraid to move upcoming UFA vets at the deadline.  They have 10 picks in the upcoming NHL draft (6 picks in the first 3 rounds).  That abundance of young assets allows them to explore the options of trading for a top return and still have plenty of assets left in the cupboard.  Say someone like Duchene.

 

They're definitely on the right track and they are doing it without having to tank to get top 3 picks. 

[westvandude]

On 2/22/2017 at 1:29 PM, NUCKER67 said:

Tanking is no longer a smart move. Picking order isn't guaranteed anymore, thanks to the Oilers for abusing this way of getting a 1st overall.

Tanking for a specific draft pick isn't a smart move, but tanking to get a high pick when the alternative is just missing the playoffs is absolutely the smart move!

[canucksnihilist]

The only smart way to do it is to set a time horizon, then do everything based on that.  Imho, the current regime's time horizon is always the current season, which drives a lot of people nuts   but understandable... it is a business first

 

anyways...  say u think 5 years from now is the time horizon you want to hit.   And then be competitive at peak level for another 5. Then sell all players who won't be around for that horizon.  And do it when they have higher value, like at the trade deadline.  Or when they are playing really well.   Look at the drafts, and try to have more picks in stronger drafts than weak ones.  Be ruthless in these decisions.  It means selling everyone over the age of 25/27.  Somewhere in there.  Go for a 3 year horizon is tight but doable...  if u are ruthless and sell anyone who can help u get there and one won't be around for a 5 year cup contending team.

 

tanking?   U do that only by developing the young players you have and trading away older vets.   Can't try to lose.... but with the lottery you don't have to be at the absolute bottom to get first overall...  so always try to win.   You won't though, but players will always feel they are trying and the team will get better.  "Tank" ny developing young players.... that is the smart way to tank.

 

If the canucks had done this 3 years ago, we would almost be in a position to really compete.   But we have wasted the last 3 years trying to make the playoffs every year!!!  Haha?!!!!   Sad but true.

 

so the way forward.  Start now.   And at least we can be on the road to a cup contending team.   Right now we are bringing in players who will be past their prime when the team is ready to compete.

 

its either incompetence or thoughtful malice just to sell seats with no intention of really winning.    I would like to think it is just incompetence, but it is kind of hard to believe.

 

 

[TheCammer]

Is the answer "Watching the Black Hawks"?

 

[CanadianRugby]

Step 1.  Fire Benning

Step 2.  Trade spare parts for draft picks at deadline(s)

Step 3.  Use your multiple (top 3 rounds) picks to rebuild your roster. 

 

You know... the same process that has worked for the Penguins, Blackhawks and Leafs. 

[The Aquamen]

Ahhh &^@# it tank for the next 2 year's without this one included. Like I said we will be relevant 2019/2020 again. Sometimes I get a good feeling ;). # Let's go canucks 

[bohoforpresident]

For draftists/tank nation only?

 

We don't shun you out of GDT's because you guys cheer for the other team/Cheer for the Canucks to fail...

 

If you truly want to have meaningful discussion, all sides must be involved. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people with the same ideas reassuring their own ideas without critiscm on why they are unrealistic and terrible and how they are all going to hell.  

 

 

[Crabcakes]

8 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I look at a team like the Hurricanes and they seem like they are on the right track. 

 

The have an abundance of young (already in the NHL) D, all under the age of 25:  Slavin, Pesce, Hanifin, Faulk, Murphy,

 

The have solid group of forwards under the age of 25:

Skinner, Lindholm Rask, Aho, Teravaninen, McGinn

 

They have a number of exciting prospects:

Fluery, Mckeown, Bean, Gauthier, Kuokkanen

 

They tend to only trade picks for young "established" NHL players:

Lack & Teravaninen.

 

They aren't afraid to move upcoming UFA vets at the deadline.  They have 10 picks in the upcoming NHL draft (6 picks in the first 3 rounds).  That abundance of young assets allows them to explore the options of trading for a top return and still have plenty of assets left in the cupboard.  Say someone like Duchene.

 

They're definitely on the right track and they are doing it without having to tank to get top 3 picks. 

I don't like what I see from Eddie Lack.  As a Canuck, coached by Rollie Melanson he showed all the promise in the world.  

 

2013-14......41 games......2.41 gaa 0.912 save %

2014-15......41 games......2.45........0.921.....................solid

 

this year, 7 games with Carolina 3.89, 0.856 and he has 2 games in the AHL

 

Lousy support = a career that looked good coming off the rails.  Makes me sad.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

14 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I don't like what I see from Eddie Lack.  As a Canuck, coached by Rollie Melanson he showed all the promise in the world.  

 

2013-14......41 games......2.41 gaa 0.912 save %

2014-15......41 games......2.45........0.921.....................solid

 

this year, 7 games with Carolina 3.89, 0.856 and he has 2 games in the AHL

 

Lousy support = a career that looked good coming off the rails.  Makes me sad.

Too many tacos

[RU SERIOUS]

Now that the Flames Are 10+ points ahead - it's a complete certainty that the season is now officially over and the Canucks should unload the old 30+ Geritol players and start the rebuild in earnest.  No more of this half ^$$ed attempt to make the playoffs while trying to draft well.  It's one or the other.   Do like Toronto and unload all the deadwood, tank and try to get some decent draft picks so we have a team in 5-6 years time.  This should have been done 3 years ago before AQUA-LINI's EGO got in the way!

[westvandude]

On 2/24/2017 at 9:22 PM, bohoforpresident said:

For draftists/tank nation only?

 

We don't shun you out of GDT's because you guys cheer for the other team/Cheer for the Canucks to fail...

 

If you truly want to have meaningful discussion, all sides must be involved. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people with the same ideas reassuring their own ideas without critiscm on why they are unrealistic and terrible and how they are all going to hell.  

 

 

It wasn't meant as discrimination against a particular way of thinking... what I wanted to know was what are some well thought out rebuilding through drafting/tanking plans are. Naturally, those who don't like to tank won't have this particular answer (they would have a different plan to compete every year, I hope!). That sentence was to make sure those who see tank threads and feel the need to tell people how wrong tanking is, think twice about posting here since their answer would be irrelevant to the question.

[appleboy]

Detroit Redwings are doing a great impression of a team that is Tanking. We will see if helps them get a high pick. One of the top two players this year would look good up their middle. 

[oldnews]

On 2/24/2017 at 9:30 PM, Crabcakes said:

I don't like what I see from Eddie Lack.  As a Canuck, coached by Rollie Melanson he showed all the promise in the world.  

 

2013-14......41 games......2.41 gaa 0.912 save %

2014-15......41 games......2.45........0.921.....................solid

 

this year, 7 games with Carolina 3.89, 0.856 and he has 2 games in the AHL

 

Lousy support = a career that looked good coming off the rails.  Makes me sad.

How much have you seen of Lack though?

First, that's a tiny sample that means very little.

Second, if you'd seen much of him you'd be aware that half that small sample came after a concussion this year, which is why he did a conditioning stint in the A.

[oldnews]

On 2/24/2017 at 9:44 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Too many tacos

Tacoing through your hat.

[Crabcakes]

32 minutes ago, oldnews said:

How much have you seen of Lack though?

First, that's a tiny sample that means very little.

Second, if you'd seen much of him you'd be aware that half that small sample came after a concussion this year, which is why he did a conditioning stint in the A.

Thanks, I did not know that

 

fwiw 2015-16 34 games 0.901 save %

 

The concussion would explain the low save % this year (0.856).  I still think there's a problem with the coaching in Carolina.  Melanson had Lack playing well and Marcoux, the Carolina goaltending coach, has asked him to play a different style resulting in a much worse performance.  

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Thanks, I did not know that

 

fwiw 2015-16 34 games 0.901 save %

 

The concussion would explain the low save % this year (0.856).  I still think there's a problem with the coaching in Carolina.  Melanson had Lack playing well and Marcoux, the Carolina goaltending coach, has asked him to play a different style resulting in a much worse performance.  

Could be that too - a combination of things - but they're not a very good team yet either. 

I like RM - a lot. - love the style he coaches.

[Nucker 67]

I just don't think teams tank on purpose. Players are pro athletes who are bred to be competitive. I doubt players would take a fall in hopes that their GM can get their team a player who will make a difference in 2-3 years. Bad teams are just bad teams.

 

I think they should re-sign Miller, sign Horvat and Tryamkin to long term deals, put the pressure on Elder to waive and get him out of there (to MTL: Edler and Virtanen to VAN: Galchenyuk. Re-unite him with Boucher and Goldobin), get Boeser into the lineup next season, try to sign Aston-Reese. Benning will also do well at the draft. Oh, and a new head coach.

[hearditall]

On 24/02/2017 at 0:51 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

They're definitely on the right track and they are doing it without having to tank to get top 3 picks.

[hearditall]

On 01/11/2016 at 4:39 PM, westvandude said:

This is only for those who consider themselves fans of tanking for high drafts (if this is not you, please don't waste your own time and ours with lame one liners)

 

I love reading well-thought out analysis... and considering the Canucks' rough start and all the predictions of where we are to end up this season, I wanna see what you guys think of a good plan for the next few years considering our needs and the prospects coming up that we could draft from, and potential realistic trades.

 

Here's a link to next draft's top prospects to aim for: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/sportsnets-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-october-jeff-marek/

 

Looks like the top 4 are C and D, which arguably not what we'll need for our future top lines. And realistically, it's hard to aim that high anyways. 5 to 7 are RW and LW, which is a good place to aim for. 

 

So basically, please tell us if you have a well-thought out plan that includes:

- Realistic assumptions (so no when we finish last and get #1 pick...)

- Comprehensive analysis (includes drafts, trades and signings)

- Assumption that we are going to be bad for next 2 seasons and finish bottom 5-10

 

Thanks!

OLD NEWS DEAD THREAD. Had to dig down deep to find this one...

 

Why have all the WD threads disappeared?

Oh let me guess nothing to talk about cause JB & WD are on the same page after all... That was the only argument most had but now that the truth has come out, well now we all know the truth hurts...

 

Seeing that all Canuck talk lately is directed towards WD & the Young Prospects, in which The Canucks are strongly leaning towards this next season. It seems like JB really cleared a lot of the unknowns & speculations about WD & his relationship with JB...

 

Benning said that he has spoken to head coach Willie Desjardins about the team's philosophy change over the final stretch and Desjardins is "going to be on-board" with the plan.

“I talk to Willie on a day-to-day basis and we talk about (ice time for players),” Benning said. “Up to this point, his focus was to try and compete hard every night and win enough games to challenge for one of those last playoff spots.

“Now that reality has set in, he’s going to be on-board with getting our young kids more ice time.”

 

With JB's latest comments towards WD  & direction of the team with the prospects in mind, Is JB & WD on the same page all along? Or is JB letting WD know this is the way it is or else? Or totally something different?

 

I believe this is a sign that they all have been on the same page clearly but there's always the other side which keeps these threads so interesting & full of all sorts of opinions. This is what keeps us all coming back, right?