rekker Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yeah I don’t see it. He’s not a defensive specialist but no pure offensive players our. Brock is the same where he’s always looking for a opportunity to turn a play into a scoring chance. He’s a -6 by the way. According to your theory he’s not a player you can win with and he clearly doesn’t battle either. you should probably consider that the majoriy of there entire team was (-). Plus minus has ZERO indication on a players compete and battle. I’ve never heard someone try to use it to jump to that comparable before ps Patrick kane is a -11. Kessel is a -3. Sid the kid is also 0. I agree plus minus is my no means a tell all. Totally disagree on Brock. He is twice the player in his dzone and neutral zone than Johnny Hockey. In fact I have been presently surprised that such a young offensive player like Brock is so structured in his own zone. Brock doesn't avoid contact like Gaudreu. See that Sharks goal? Typical Johhny. All he had to do was establish position on the pass option and there is probably no goal. Watch Johnny in his zone. Hardly ever goes deep or to the slot to battle in his zone. Dont blame him because he rarely wins the battle anyways. That isn't how you lead a team. Twins cheat a lot more now and it shows. Guess we have different view on what to takes to win tight games. Flash and dazzle looks neat on hilites but how you play without the puck wins tight games and playoffs. Johhny and the Flames may be able to get away with his style if they surround him with the right players. Easier said than done though. They are a mediocre team till their leaders like Monahan and Johhny learn to play in their own zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, rekker said: I agree plus minus is my no means a tell all. Totally disagree on Brock. He is twice the player in his dzone and neutral zone than Johnny Hockey. In fact I have been presently surprised that such a young offensive player like Brock is so structured in his own zone. Brock doesn't avoid contact like Gaudreu. See that Sharks goal? Typical Johhny. All he had to do was establish position on the pass option and there is probably no goal. Watch Johnny in his zone. I do, I have season tickets so I watch him/flames a lot. But you’re mixing games up. I’m talking about the March 16 game at the dome. Your talking about the March 24 game after the flames season was already cooked. 5 minutes ago, rekker said: Hardly ever goes deep or to the slot to battle in his zone. Dont blame him because he rarely wins the battle anyways. That isn't how you lead a team. He plays the same game as kane. Kane is has three cups to his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I do, I have season tickets so I watch him/flames a lot. But you’re mixing games up. I’m talking about the March 16 game at the dome. Your talking about the March 24 game after the flames season was already cooked. He plays the same game as kane. Kane is has three cups to his name. Ya got the Sharks games mixed. But Kane had Toews and Sharp which I eluded to when I said Johhny can play that way with the right help. Easier said than done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 12 minutes ago, rekker said: Ya got the Sharks games mixed. But Kane had Toews and Sharp which I eluded to when I said Johhny can play that way with the right help. Easier said than done. Which is why I said they are one or two pieces away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said: Which is why I said they are one or two pieces away. Can't agree to that either. Lol. My previous post on this topic talked of what I thought their other issues were as well. I need to get back to work. Was a good discussion. I have no problem sharing thoughts with a fellow poster that knows more about the game than what Xbox can teach him. Till next time. FYI. We can agree on something. Forsberg was great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 6 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I’d say Flames have a really bright future, Hamilton, Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Ferklund, Bennett, Jankowski are all under 25. Would anyone trade that core for Horvat, Gaudette, Boeser, Pettersson, Juolevi, Virtanen, and Lind/our 1st this year? Granted some of ours are yet to make the NHL but are near-ready blue-chippers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Just now, Hutton Wink said: Would anyone trade that core for Horvat, Gaudette, Boeser, Pettersson, Juolevi, Virtanen, and Lind/our 1st this year? Granted some of ours are yet to make the NHL but are near-ready blue-chippers. Dahlen, Gadjovich as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 37 minutes ago, J-23 said: Dahlen, Gadjovich as well. I guess the best way to do with this would be to use comparable Center Monahan vs Horvat Backlund vs Sutter Jankowski vs Gaudette Wingers Gaudreau vs Pettersson Tkachuk vs Gadj Ferkland vs Jake Bennett vs Boeser Mangiapane vs Goldobin Defense Valimaki vs Juolevi Andersson vs Hutton Hamilton vs 1st round pick Kylington vs Brisebois Prospects Fox vs Rathbone Dube + Phillips + Gadwin vs Lind + Lockwood + Dahlen Joly + Ruzicka vs Palmu + stukel Goalies Gillis vs Demko Parsons vs Dipietro Would be interesting. Pretty close in my eyes. IMO Canucks have higher ceiling but that’s if they can all reach those limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Close call really. Edge to Flames for now. But would be interesting to pose the same question same time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Edge to the Flames mostly because our defense is a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, rekker said: Close call really. Edge to Flames for now. But would be interesting to pose the same question same time next year. Dahlin could also change things massively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Dahlin could also change things massively. Yes. Whichever team gets him will take a hard 90 degree turn in the right direction. If it's the Oilers, I'm done with hockey. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 6 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I guess the best way to do with this would be to use comparable Center Monahan vs Horvat Backlund vs Sutter Jankowski vs Gaudette Wingers Gaudreau vs Pettersson Tkachuk vs Gadj Ferkland vs Jake Bennett vs Boeser Mangiapane vs Goldobin Defense Valimaki vs Juolevi Andersson vs Hutton Hamilton vs 1st round pick Kylington vs Brisebois Prospects Fox vs Rathbone Dube + Phillips + Gadwin vs Lind + Lockwood + Dahlen Joly + Ruzicka vs Palmu + stukel Goalies Gillis vs Demko Parsons vs Dipietro Would be interesting. Pretty close in my eyes. IMO Canucks have higher ceiling but that’s if they can all reach those limits. I agree with this, if most players can play as expected, we should be the better team easily. Add a guy like Dahlin, Zadina, Scvech, Tkachuk, etc. and we look even better. I think we will get the 2nd overall pick this year. Here is how I see our roster in the future. Pettersson - Horvat - Boeser Zadina - Gaudette - Dahlen Gadjovich - - Lind Virtanen - MacEwen - Defence is going to be a big factor though and right now we suck defensively. Hopfully Juolevi can pan out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violator Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 8 hours ago, rekker said: Edge to the Flames mostly because our defense is a mess. Flames defence really isnt much better. They also have spent 5mill more than us on one less player. It also cost two first rounders,four second round picks a third rounder a fifth round pick.thats eight draft picks for three players.you can $&!# on benning but he hasnt given up that much.Treliving reminds me of Gillis mortgage the future to win now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 7 hours ago, Violator said: Flames defence really isnt much better. They also have spent 5mill more than us on one less player. It also cost two first rounders,four second round picks a third rounder a fifth round pick.thats eight draft picks for three players.you can $&!# on benning but he hasnt given up that much.Treliving reminds me of Gillis mortgage the future to win now. I dislike the Flames very much but I would change out our D for theirs in a heartbeat. Hamilton and Giordano are both better than anything we have. Mostly because Tanev can't stay healthy. Brodie beats out any of out left D after Edler. Andersson looks like a player. Hamonic better than Guds. But I will say that the mix seems off. They should have better results with that group of D. They need a Stetcher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrious1 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Can't help but agree. Defense is the one part of the Canucks rebuild (retool, reload?) that has really lagged behind. If Juolevi can become the player Vancouver needs him to be it won't be so bad...but expectations are already so high on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rocket Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 27 minutes ago, rekker said: I dislike the Flames very much but I would change out our D for theirs in a heartbeat. Hamilton and Giordano are both better than anything we have. Mostly because Tanev can't stay healthy. Brodie beats out any of out left D after Edler. Andersson looks like a player. Hamonic better than Guds. But I will say that the mix seems off. They should have better results with that group of D. They need a Stetcher! Flames have loaded up on D but they have weak centre depth and pretty much 0 right wing depth. Their top prospects are Andersson, fox, and valemaki; all defensemen. It’s pretty much the opposite of the Oilers who are solid down the middle but have 0 top pairing defensemen. This should serve as a warning to the Canucks, make sure we’re building evenly in all positions. Right now, we’re too heavy with wingers, it would probably be smart for JB to load up on D at this next draft or try to trade some forwards for young defensemen Clagary also lacks a high end Goalie. Smith is too old to be in top form all year and both rittich and gillies are having a hard time translating to the NHL, although they are only 24 (?) so maybe they’ll turn it around. There other hope in net is parsons, so we’ll see how he pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Canadian Clay said: Flames have loaded up on D but they have weak centre depth and pretty much 0 right wing depth. Their top prospects are Andersson, fox, and valemaki; all defensemen. It’s pretty much the opposite of the Oilers who are solid down the middle but have 0 top pairing defensemen. This should serve as a warning to the Canucks, make sure we’re building evenly in all positions. Right now, we’re too heavy with wingers, it would probably be smart for JB to load up on D at this next draft or try to trade some forwards for young defensemen Clagary also lacks a high end Goalie. Smith is too old to be in top form all year and both rittich and gillies are having a hard time translating to the NHL, although they are only 24 (?) so maybe they’ll turn it around. There other hope in net is parsons, so we’ll see how he pans out. Agreed. Smith is no spring chicken. Has looked good in stretched but weathered at other times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, rekker said: Agreed. Smith is no spring chicken. Has looked good in stretched but weathered at other times. I've always thought Smith was overrated, and not a good fit there. Maybe that's because he played for Arizona so much, and that team made him look worse than he really was. It looked like his temper got in his way, kind of like how someone can really get on Corey Perry's nerves and set him off his game too easily. I don't remember him from his earlier years, though. Maybe he was decent then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 100 percent bang on with Smith in Arizona. Remember when Bryzgalov got signed out of there? Same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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