The Calgary Flames

[Trebreh]

It would be hilarious at the draft day and you see and empty table with a flems logo on it and Tre sitting all alone on his phone playing clash of clans. lol

[kloubek]

15 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said:

Calgary's defense is completely overrated. Their defense being better than ours isn't saying much.

 

The lames in general are a garbage team that think they are a contender. The truth is, they didn't properly finish their rebuild. They got ahead of themselves and are now paying for it. And I love it!

Their d isn't just better than ours.  It's 50% better than ours.  That's significant.  I agree it is overrated, but not by as much as some of you are making it out to be. 

The are also not a "garbage" team, but I agree they didn't compete their rebuild.

Here's why they aren't going to make the playoffs:
They too have suffered a lot of key injuries as the season has progressed, and they don't have enough quality depth to make up for it.  They had some pretty bad goaltending with Smith out, and even after he came back he wasn't the same. They too have a bad contract in Brower so they aren't using their cap space effectively, and some players just aren't producing as they should, such as Brower, Bennett, and Stone. For that matter, I don't really know why but the team as a whole isn't producing at the pace they should be.  The amount of times their shots are wide or over the net is astonishing. They have worked with the philosophy that having two soft guys and one heavy guy on a line is the way to go, whereas what they really need is grit throughout. The aren't good at faceoffs and they don't tend to block shots... effectively screening their goalie more than they should be. Finally, I think the room is sick of the coach... though I haven't talked to enough Flames fans or read the media enough to know this for sure. 

All of these are solvable issues, but it's hard work since it is some of this, some of that, and some of that other thing.  They are actually a pretty decent team, but they absolutely need some work in several areas.

[rekker]

9 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Their d isn't just better than ours.  It's 50% better than ours.  That's significant.  I agree it is overrated, but not by as much as some of you are making it out to be. 

The are also not a "garbage" team, but I agree they didn't compete their rebuild.

Here's why they aren't going to make the playoffs:
They too have suffered a lot of key injuries as the season has progressed, and they don't have enough quality depth to make up for it.  They had some pretty bad goaltending with Smith out, and even after he came back he wasn't the same. They too have a bad contract in Brower so they aren't using their cap space effectively, and some players just aren't producing as they should, such as Brower, Bennett, and Stone. For that matter, I don't really know why but the team as a whole isn't producing at the pace they should be.  The amount of times their shots are wide or over the net is astonishing. They have worked with the philosophy that having two soft guys and one heavy guy on a line is the way to go, whereas what they really need is grit throughout. The aren't good at faceoffs and they don't tend to block shots... effectively screening their goalie more than they should be. Finally, I think the room is sick of the coach... though I haven't talked to enough Flames fans or read the media enough to know this for sure. 

All of these are solvable issues, but it's hard work since it is some of this, some of that, and some of that other thing.  They are actually a pretty decent team, but they absolutely need some work in several areas.

Other issues as well. Johnny Hockey and Monohan have little interest in playing big boy hockey. Giordano is a bright spot and the only player on that team I like. But he isn't getting any younger. Hamonic plays a style more suited to a decade ago. The hole left from this draft will be daunting. We should know as it has happened to us. 

[Rob_Zepp]

5 hours ago, kloubek said:

Their d isn't just better than ours.  It's 50% better than ours.  That's significant.  I agree it is overrated, but not by as much as some of you are making it out to be. 

The are also not a "garbage" team, but I agree they didn't compete their rebuild.

Here's why they aren't going to make the playoffs:
They too have suffered a lot of key injuries as the season has progressed, and they don't have enough quality depth to make up for it.  They had some pretty bad goaltending with Smith out, and even after he came back he wasn't the same. They too have a bad contract in Brower so they aren't using their cap space effectively, and some players just aren't producing as they should, such as Brower, Bennett, and Stone. For that matter, I don't really know why but the team as a whole isn't producing at the pace they should be.  The amount of times their shots are wide or over the net is astonishing. They have worked with the philosophy that having two soft guys and one heavy guy on a line is the way to go, whereas what they really need is grit throughout. The aren't good at faceoffs and they don't tend to block shots... effectively screening their goalie more than they should be. Finally, I think the room is sick of the coach... though I haven't talked to enough Flames fans or read the media enough to know this for sure. 

All of these are solvable issues, but it's hard work since it is some of this, some of that, and some of that other thing.  They are actually a pretty decent team, but they absolutely need some work in several areas.

They have a LOT of talent but they didn't play like a team.   They did not play for each other.  You can put together the most talented players you want but if they don't genuinely want to play for one another in battle, you cannot win in professional hockey.   Watching the Flames is watching a team that does not want to go to battle for one another.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said:

They have a LOT of talent but they didn't play like a team.   They did not play for each other.  You can put together the most talented players you want but if they don't genuinely want to play for one another in battle, you cannot win in professional hockey.   Watching the Flames is watching a team that does not want to go to battle for one another.

I think it was @ForsbergTheGreat who hinted there might be something going on in the Flame’s room.  Or was that the Oilers?  Maybe it’s both?  Star forwards who play zero defensive might PO the rest of the team, who don’t make big coin?

[kingofsurrey]

39 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think it was @ForsbergTheGreat who hinted there might be something going on in the Flame’s room.  Or was that the Oilers?  Maybe it’s both?  Star forwards who play zero defensive might PO the rest of the team, who don’t make big coin?

Calgary is a very over rated hockey club.  Terrible bottom 6 with very crappy goal tending....   Coaching is also weak....

Power play is rubbish....

 

Forgot to mention the Flames do not have a single decent  NHL caliber right wing on their club...

 

Very poorly constructed team in my opinion. 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

Calgary is a very over rated hockey club.  Terrible bottom 6 with very crappy goal tending....   Coaching is also weak....

Power play is rubbish....

 

And their future is bleak too, considering they traded away most of their coming top picks.  

[Trebreh]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And their future is bleak too, considering they traded away most of their coming top picks.  

their top prospects are Fox, Dube and Valimaki... hahaha

[captainhorvat]

Since Smith didnt work out i bet they give up a draft pick for Kari Lehtonen haha

[kloubek]

10 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

They have a LOT of talent but they didn't play like a team.   They did not play for each other.  You can put together the most talented players you want but if they don't genuinely want to play for one another in battle, you cannot win in professional hockey.   Watching the Flames is watching a team that does not want to go to battle for one another.

I don't disagree.  And this is weird to me, considering that in recent years past they WERE the team that battled together, as a team.  Heck, when they destroyed us in the 2014-15 playoffs, they were relentless.  Not sure what happened between now and then, and that's why I say I feel Gulutzan (sp?) has lost the room.

[Alflives]

10 hours ago, Trebreh said:

their top prospects are Fox, Dube and Valimaki... hahaha

I know!  Totally craparolla!  Flames are stuck in the middle, and will be there for a decade.  

[ForsbergTheGreat]

10 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think it was @ForsbergTheGreat who hinted there might be something going on in the Flame’s room.  Or was that the Oilers?  Maybe it’s both?  Star forwards who play zero defensive might PO the rest of the team, who don’t make big coin?

Oilers 

 

10 hours ago, Alflives said:

And their future is bleak too, considering they traded away most of their coming top picks.  

There future isn’t too bleak. 

I’d say Flames have a really bright future, Hamilton, Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Ferklund, Bennett, Jankowski are all under 25.  They are all only going to get better, as they get closer to their prime years,  They have some really exciting D prospects coming up in Andersson, Valimaki, and Fox, they will all start to plug in to their regular D core.  They  also have some very skilled forwards in there system;

Gadwin  2nd in WHL points, 

Philips 5th in WHL points, 

Dube 25th in WHL points, 

Ruzicka put up 72 points in 63 OHL games, 

Joly put up 68 points in 55 Q games this year, 

Mangiapane lead the AHL for the majority of the year until he got called up to the NHL, finished 3rd in p/pg for players playing over 30 games. 

 

Most people in Calgary aren’t freaking out, simply because there’s only upwards that this team go as their young core gets more developed.  Add in that their GM was able to lock in Monahan and Johnny for well below league value long term.  Their biggest issue is they don’t have any compete level,  when games get tight, you need players to kick it into an extra gear, Flames fold like a cheap tent.  Tkachuk is their one competitor, that kid bleeds to win, very similar to Kes for us back in 2011.  They need more players like him, character guys.  So really it’s not all doom and gloom, they have a good team, like kloubek said, just missing a few pieces. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Oilers 

 

There future isn’t too bleak. 

I’d say Flames have a really bright future, Hamilton, Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Ferklund, Bennett, Jankowski are all under 25.  They are all only going to get better, as they get closer to their prime years,  They have some really exciting D prospects coming up in Andersson, Valimaki, and Fox, they will all start to plug in to their regular D core.  They  also have some very skilled forwards in there system;

Gadwin  2nd in WHL points, 

Philips 5th in WHL points, 

Dube 25th in WHL points, 

Ruzicka put up 72 points in 63 OHL games, 

Joly put up 68 points in 55 Q games this year, 

Mangiapane lead the AHL for the majority of the year until he got called up to the NHL, finished 3rd in p/pg for players playing over 30 games. 

 

Most people in Calgary aren’t freaking out, simply because there’s only upwards that this team go as their young core gets more developed.  Add in that their GM was able to lock in Monahan and Johnny for well below league value long term.  Their biggest issue is they don’t have any compete level,  when games get tight, you need players to kick it into an extra gear, Flames fold like a cheap tent.  Tkachuk is their one competitor, that kid bleeds to win, very similar to Kes for us back in 2011.  They need more players like him, character guys.  So really it’s not all doom and gloom, they have a good team, like kloubek said, just missing a few pieces. 

Good answer.  My guess is i was wrong, and it wasn’t you who posted stuff about their dressing room having issues?

 

Flames no goalie, and they are softies.  

[rekker]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Oilers 

 

There future isn’t too bleak. 

I’d say Flames have a really bright future, Hamilton, Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Ferklund, Bennett, Jankowski are all under 25.  They are all only going to get better, as they get closer to their prime years,  They have some really exciting D prospects coming up in Andersson, Valimaki, and Fox, they will all start to plug in to their regular D core.  They  also have some very skilled forwards in there system;

Gadwin  2nd in WHL points, 

Philips 5th in WHL points, 

Dube 25th in WHL points, 

Ruzicka put up 72 points in 63 OHL games, 

Joly put up 68 points in 55 Q games this year, 

Mangiapane lead the AHL for the majority of the year until he got called up to the NHL, finished 3rd in p/pg for players playing over 30 games. 

 

Most people in Calgary aren’t freaking out, simply because there’s only upwards that this team go as their young core gets more developed.  Add in that their GM was able to lock in Monahan and Johnny for well below league value long term.  Their biggest issue is they don’t have any compete level,  when games get tight, you need players to kick it into an extra gear, Flames fold like a cheap tent.  Tkachuk is their one competitor, that kid bleeds to win, very similar to Kes for us back in 2011.  They need more players like him, character guys.  So really it’s not all doom and gloom, they have a good team, like kloubek said, just missing a few pieces. 

Couldn't agree with you less. Johnny Hockey is skilled but not a guy you win with. 82 points and a 0 plus minus. Look at the twins when they were putting up the big points and they had plus 20s and 30s. Monahan and Johhny don't know how to battle. Hamilton puts up numbers but is so so in his end. Giordano getting older. Frolik looks to be trending downward. Bennett could go either way yet. Smith looks older and if they lean on him too much he will get injured agan. Some prospects yes but the hole from the draft this year will really hurt them four years from now. They are at best a borderline playoff team for years to come in my mind. 

[PhillipBlunt]

The buzz around the Flames being a playoff team and having the best defensive corps in the league seems to be non-existent now. Clearly the team has issues.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, rekker said:

Couldn't agree with you less. Johnny Hockey is skilled but not a guy you win with. 82 points and a 0 plus minus. Look at the twins when they were putting up the big points and they had plus 20s and 30s. Monahan and Johhny don't know how to battle

 

Just asking but How many flames games a year do you watch?  Using plus minus as a stat for battle rather pointless. horvat was a was a -30 and no one would say he doesn’t battle. Go rewatch the loss against SJ on the 16th. Johnny put his team on his back trying to keep them in it while smith was letting in softy’s. For a little guy he was showing st.louis heart. 

 

 

1 hour ago, rekker said:

Hamilton puts up numbers but is so so in his end. Giordano getting older. Frolik looks to be trending downward. Bennett could go either way yet. Smith looks older and if they lean on him too much he will get injured agan. Some prospects yes but the hole from the draft this year will really hurt them four years from now. They are at best a borderline playoff team for years to come in my mind. 

They are a few players short. Hence a piece or two away. You don’t need all 23 players to be warriors, just a handful. 

[rekker]

8 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Just asking but How many flames games a year do you watch?  Using plus minus as a stat for battle rather pointless. horvat was a was a -30 and no one would say he doesn’t battle. Go rewatch the loss against SJ on the 16th. Johnny put his team on his back trying to keep them in it while smith was letting in softy’s. For a little guy he was showing st.louis heart. 

 

 

They are a few players short. Hence a piece or two away. You don’t need all 23 players to be warriors, just a handful. 

Good question. Watched a lot of the Flanes this year as I am enjoying their misery. Lol. Johnny hangs way to high in his own zone and isn't involved enough in his dzone. Almost always first man out. Modern hockey has the wingers down low high slot to take away chances. The days of shadowing the opposition D are long gone. He cheats a lot. Very creative for sure in the ozone but his lack of contact in his dzone leads to sustained pressure. Thus the bad plus minus. It's not winning hockey but rather scoring hockey. 

[rekker]

15 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Just asking but How many flames games a year do you watch?  Using plus minus as a stat for battle rather pointless. horvat was a was a -30 and no one would say he doesn’t battle. Go rewatch the loss against SJ on the 16th. Johnny put his team on his back trying to keep them in it while smith was letting in softy’s. For a little guy he was showing st.louis heart. 

 

 

They are a few players short. Hence a piece or two away. You don’t need all 23 players to be warriors, just a handful. 

Adding to this did you see the flyby Johhny did on the Sharks winning goal. Brutal. 

[rekker]

I forgot to add into my previous post that they do have a great player in Tkachuk. He reminds me of Kesler. Hates to lose more than he loves to win. He seems to be getting more mature with his antics which is proving to make him even more of an effective player.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, rekker said:

Good question. Watched a lot of the Flanes this year as I am enjoying their misery. Lol. Johnny hangs way to high in his own zone and isn't involved enough in his dzone. Almost always first man out. Modern hockey has the wingers down low high slot to take away chances. The days of shadowing the opposition D are long gone. He cheats a lot. Very creative for sure in the ozone but his lack of contact in his dzone leads to sustained pressure. Thus the bad plus minus. It's not winning hockey but rather scoring hockey. 

Yeah I don’t see it. He’s not a defensive specialist but no pure offensive players our. Brock is the same where he’s always looking for a opportunity to turn a play into a scoring chance. He’s a -6 by the way. According to your theory he’s not a player you can win with and he clearly doesn’t battle either. you should probably consider that the majoriy of there entire team was (-). Plus minus has ZERO indication on a players compete and battle. I’ve never heard someone try to use it to jump to that comparable before

 

ps Patrick kane is a -11. Kessel is a -3. Sid the kid is also 0.