Early Season Musings: A Big Head Edition

[xereau]

Guance has an upper ceiling of Brad Richardson.  On his best day, 3rd line center.  But more like perennial 4th line center, and, there is nothing wrong with that.

[EmilyM]

6 hours ago, k_man08 said:

Well i realize you want answers but its not easy to do a fix that took years to mess up.

We had no need to trade for players that fill the gap between our 30 something and prospects. We could have let our prospects grow in the AHL, while signing FAs to 1 year deals and then trading them away at deadline. we don't have that luxury anymore because we've filled our roster with sub-par prospects that have a future potential of 3rd line on a good team.

 

Here's who i think can fill roster spots this year:

 

Zalewski, Michael

Cassels, Cole

Labate, Joseph

Pedan, Andrey

Grenier, Alexandre

Bachman, Richard

 

 

I would trade Miller for picks call up Bachman

Trade burrows and call up Zalewski

Trade Skille for picks when Rodin returns

Trade away larsen for picks and call up Pedan

This fills the holes for us at forward, D and G positions and allows us to ice a full line while gathering any set of picks we can get our hands on.

 

Let Benning draft well and fill the cupboards for one more year. If we're close to bottom 5 in the NHL, then even better as we'll get one more NHL ready piece. Let Virtanen continue to play in AHL for the remainder of the year.

 

In expansion draft, protect anyone we consider to be our best player at the time. We should not have much to worry about at the time because most of our exposed players would not be very desirable to LV.

 

After that, follow the leafs model of signing NHL talented players to 1 year deals to only flip them for picks at deadline. Keep our prospects at AHL and allow them to play together and gel so when they play in NHL they have somewhat of a chemistry. By the end of next season our cupboards should be fuller and Sedins should be ready for retirement. Loui should be traded away for picks and our roster should be filled with NHL ready players that we've developed so far,

 

 

Appreciate the thought out response
Unfortunately, I fear there may be too much over-estimating of our assets in your plan.

"Here's who i think can fill roster spots this year: Zalewski, Cassels, Labate, Pedan, Grenier, Bachman"
Every one of these players is likely projected to be a fringe NHLer at best. I don't see how focusing any plan around them improves anything in the short term or long term.

 

"trade Miller for picks" This assumes there's a market for a goalie right now. There may possibly be a team that gets desperate at the deadline, but the return for Miller at this stage won't likely be much. Returns on goaltenders is not hot in recent history.

"Trade burrows" There were rumours that he was willing to waive his no trade. Which assumes he was asked to. Which assumes he had no takers. He has done nothing this year to convince the other 29 teams he is the guy to help their playoff drive. I don't think there is a Burrows market.
"Trade Skille for picks" I can't imagine a team giving up any assets to acquire a dime-a-dozen player like Skille.
"Trade away larsen for picks" see above ^

As optimistic as I'd like to be about our prospects, the fact of the matter is that we are very, very thin right now. If most of these prospects were on any other team with a deeper prospect pool than us, nobody would be discussing them. We have a couple of higher end guys like Virtanen, Boeser, Demko, but even they are question marks to be able to jump in even a year from now. I think that was part of the reason management was sort of handcuffed into grabbing NHL ready players. We just didn't have NHL bodies.

"its not easy to do a fix that took years to mess up"
This is the part I agree with. It's easy to want to dump the dead weight, but that assume other teams want to give up assets for them. It's easy to want to develop our youth, but we don't have a lot of it. It's going to be a long process that's going to be a lot more complicated than dumping vets and grabbing picks.

[k_man08]

18 hours ago, EmilyM said:

Appreciate the thought out response
Unfortunately, I fear there may be too much over-estimating of our assets in your plan.

"Here's who i think can fill roster spots this year: Zalewski, Cassels, Labate, Pedan, Grenier, Bachman"
Every one of these players is likely projected to be a fringe NHLer at best. I don't see how focusing any plan around them improves anything in the short term or long term.

 

"trade Miller for picks" This assumes there's a market for a goalie right now. There may possibly be a team that gets desperate at the deadline, but the return for Miller at this stage won't likely be much. Returns on goaltenders is not hot in recent history.

"Trade burrows" There were rumours that he was willing to waive his no trade. Which assumes he was asked to. Which assumes he had no takers. He has done nothing this year to convince the other 29 teams he is the guy to help their playoff drive. I don't think there is a Burrows market.
"Trade Skille for picks" I can't imagine a team giving up any assets to acquire a dime-a-dozen player like Skille.
"Trade away larsen for picks" see above ^

As optimistic as I'd like to be about our prospects, the fact of the matter is that we are very, very thin right now. If most of these prospects were on any other team with a deeper prospect pool than us, nobody would be discussing them. We have a couple of higher end guys like Virtanen, Boeser, Demko, but even they are question marks to be able to jump in even a year from now. I think that was part of the reason management was sort of handcuffed into grabbing NHL ready players. We just didn't have NHL bodies.

"its not easy to do a fix that took years to mess up"
This is the part I agree with. It's easy to want to dump the dead weight, but that assume other teams want to give up assets for them. It's easy to want to develop our youth, but we don't have a lot of it. It's going to be a long process that's going to be a lot more complicated than dumping vets and grabbing picks.

 

I get what you're saying but i'm not a GM and i don't have the know-how of who is in need of what. So i can't say trade Miller to team X for Y pick. And all the suggestions above were assumed to be transaction that would happen before trade deadline if opportunity arises.

 

As for Miller, yea no one wants a goalie, but.. by deadline, most teams find a need either due to injury or other factors.. Miller is a good enough goalie to play 1B or backup on a good team. I am sure of that.

 

Skille is dime a dozen sure.. but he doesn't command more than 10 minutes a game. Most teams that have a need to fill a hole on 4th line and need toughness would likely not put their prized prospects in that role and would need a banger. He would fit that role, and he's game ready. I'm sure Burrows fills the same need for teams but we'll have to take back some $$ and i'm okay with that if it translates to a mid-round pick.

 

Larsen, we over valued him. plain and simple. He's not what Benning said he is. and if he is that player, he is that player on a good team that needs secondary scoring or scoring from depth d. We aren't that team. SO i do believe other teams would have value for him.

 

If we consider the list of players i listed above as Fringe, then the players we currently have given roster spots to (other than MIller) aren't any better. Except by replacing the existing players with the younger ones from AHL we have two benefit.. the younger players should be more hungry and will work harder. Secondly, we get some valuable picks in return that will lead to a better prospect pool if Benning really drafts wisely. If i remember correctly, Cassels was on a upwards trajectory prior to his injury about a year ago. Labate was good in training camp this year and i'm sure he'll be able to give the same if not more to the team if he replaces Burrows/Skille. 

 

Heck, i'm totally okay with trading away Gudbranson, Hansen, Loui and Suter if it means each gives us higher round picks or prospects in return that will be ready to play in a year or now. Only aged players that should be here .. that have earned their spot are sedins (and maybe markstrom and Tanev). Noone else should be kept.. we need to start over.

 

[189lb enforcers?]

Trade the Sedins and Edler if you really want a change in direction.

None of this will be over until they are gone.

[Salacious Crumb]

2 hours ago, k_man08 said:

 

I get what you're saying but i'm not a GM.

 

Heck, i'm totally okay with trading away Gudbranson, Hansen, Loui and Suter if it means each gives us higher round picks or prospects in return that will be ready to play in a year or now. Only aged players that should be here .. that have earned their spot are sedins (and maybe markstrom and Tanev). Noone else should be kept.. we need to start over.

 

 

[k_man08]

1 hour ago, Salacious Crumb said:

 

Well tell me, what have Suter, Hansen, Loui, and Gudbranson done to warrant us keeping them..

They're young, and complementary pieces to a good team which we're not. If they each bring in 1st rounders or more, we quickly fill up our prospect pool, tank to get maybe a top 5 pick and then in the summer sign FAs that can be flipped for more picks at next year's deadline while giving our existing prospects a chance to prove themselves.

 

I'm tired of being in this situation where we suck but have nothing to look forward to. I'm sure many fans are as well.

[Salacious Crumb]

50 minutes ago, k_man08 said:

Well tell me, what have Suter, Hansen, Loui, and Gudbranson done to warrant us keeping them..

They're young, and complementary pieces to a good team which we're not. If they each bring in 1st rounders or more, we quickly fill up our prospect pool, tank to get maybe a top 5 pick and then in the summer sign FAs that can be flipped for more picks at next year's deadline while giving our existing prospects a chance to prove themselves.

 

I'm tired of being in this situation where we suck but have nothing to look forward to. I'm sure many fans are as well.

Do you have any examples of a team following your strategy successfully?  

[k_man08]

14 minutes ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Do you have any examples of a team following your strategy successfully?  

Yea.. I can think of two.. Flames did this just about 2-3 years ago and completely wiped all veteran contracts away except for a few

Leafs recently also did that about a year ago.

 

It isn't that unheard of. if you want to start over, you trade whatever you can and get as much back for them and plug holes with whatever talent you've got.

[Salacious Crumb]

4 minutes ago, k_man08 said:

Yea.. I can think of two.. Flames did this just about 2-3 years ago and completely wiped all veteran contracts away except for a few

Leafs recently also did that about a year ago.

 

It isn't that unheard of. if you want to start over, you trade whatever you can and get as much back for them and plug holes with whatever talent you've got.

Ok. Those are the 2 champions you are hanging your hat on?

 

Let's see where us, the Oilers, Flames and Leafs are in 2020.

[k_man08]

1 hour ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Ok. Those are the 2 champions you are hanging your hat on?

 

Let's see where us, the Oilers, Flames and Leafs are in 2020.

don't over estimate our team and don't under estimate theirs.

Leafs and Oilers are miles ahead of flames who are several years ahead of canucks.

Oil and Leafs finally have prospects that make for exciting hockey and a chance to win every night.

Flames need some good Dmen to make them decent.

 

Canucks have holes all over the F position and in D position which just can't be plugged through FA or trades. if they can be plugged its short term fix and requires us to give up our future - Evander Kane for example would require a pick and /or prospect.. .. and he can't really score for Sabres.. i'm not sure he can do better here against more physical competition every night in W Conference.