JM_ Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Interesting new survey out from the Federal government on electoral reform: https://www.mydemocracy.ca I for one will be pretty annoyed if electoral reform is not brought in for the next election, its one of the main reasons I voted the way I did. I don't really have a preference for the PR model, they all have their +'s and -'s but it would be interesting to know where others stand on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I was placed as a "Guardian" under the survey. I suspect the main reason I got that was because of my belief that gifting minorities spots in government to give them representation is something I don't believe is the right thing to do. Everyone should have equal opportunity to be involved in government, but we shouldn't be falsely inflating the representation of certain groups if that is not what the majority wants. Ideally someone's gender, sexual preferences, race, etc. should never come into play (unless your political belief is that someone with those traits shouldn't be in a place of power, which is your legal right). Just as I shouldn't be saying no to the best qualified MP just because she's a woman, the government shouldn't just be hiring a woman to hit their 50% equal party quota. As for electoral reform, I find it ironic that when the election was going on all my Conservative friends were complaining that the Liberals just wanted to change the system to benefit them and that they shouldn't touch electoral reform. Now the Liberals are realizing that there isn't a clear direction to go so they're holding back and all the sudden all my Conservative friends are complaining that Trudeau doesn't keep his promises. Its ironic how their tone changes when it fits their political stance. Ultimately I would like to see better representation among the provinces. I'm not a fan of the entire election being decided by Ontario and Quebec. BC and Alberta are both powerhouses in the Canadian economy, yet their opinion matters very little during election season. While I don't think voting power should necessarily be equal between the provinces, there needs to be more deference given to the less populated provinces than currently exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 FPTP has got to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm a pragmatist apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 YOUR VIEWS MOST ALIGN WITH Innovators My democracy is diverse and inclusive Innovators are generally among the most open to new ideas to improve the way Parliament works. Innovators tend to favour cooperation over competition when it comes to politics and to prefer governments that seek compromise with other parties. They typically support the idea of parties working together and sharing responsibility for decisions. Innovators are commonly interested in new ways to increase diversity of Parliament. They tend to prefer that Members of Parliament, as a whole, better reflect Canada’s diverse population, which includes having more women and candidates from visible minority groups elected. Of all the groups, Innovators are most likely to welcome having a greater diversity of ideas and political viewpoints expressed and represented in Parliament. They also tend to believe that voters should have more options or additional ways to express their choices on the ballot during an election. Innovators are generally quite concerned about voter turnout in Canada. They are the most open to the possibility of online voting as a means to increase electoral participation. Innovators are also the most likely to support the idea of mandatory voting as they tend to see voting as a democratic duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I also think the survey unfairly judged me as "against online voting". I think online voting would be excellent for both voter turnout and efficiency. But I don't think that the security platform exists to properly protect the election from online voter fraud yet - hence my view that we're not ready for online voting yet. In the long run I would love to see online voting, but not until we're absolutely sure that our government isn't going to be elected by some hacking genius in Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 14 minutes ago, Fateless said: I was placed as a "Guardian" under the survey. I suspect the main reason I got that was because of my belief that gifting minorities spots in government to give them representation is something I don't believe is the right thing to do. Everyone should have equal opportunity to be involved in government, but we shouldn't be falsely inflating the representation of certain groups if that is not what the majority wants. Ideally someone's gender, sexual preferences, race, etc. should never come into play (unless your political belief is that someone with those traits shouldn't be in a place of power, which is your legal right). Just as I shouldn't be saying no to the best qualified MP just because she's a woman, the government shouldn't just be hiring a woman to hit their 50% equal party quota. As for electoral reform, I find it ironic that when the election was going on all my Conservative friends were complaining that the Liberals just wanted to change the system to benefit them and that they shouldn't touch electoral reform. Now the Liberals are realizing that there isn't a clear direction to go so they're holding back and all the sudden all my Conservative friends are complaining that Trudeau doesn't keep his promises. Its ironic how their tone changes when it fits their political stance. Ultimately I would like to see better representation among the provinces. I'm not a fan of the entire election being decided by Ontario and Quebec. BC and Alberta are both powerhouses in the Canadian economy, yet their opinion matters very little during election season. While I don't think voting power should necessarily be equal between the provinces, there needs to be more deference given to the less populated provinces than currently exists. I came out of it as an "Innovator". I like to shake things up I agree on evening out provincial representation... not sure if PR can accomplish that on its own. One of the best examples of how PR can work is when Harper had a minority. Sure a lot of people disliked him, but the CPC was also held in check on a number of issues and the opposition had a lot more say. We still got things done. I don't subscribe to the idea that PR will lead to gridlock, and all we have to do is look South for what that looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, Fateless said: I also think the survey unfairly judged me as "against online voting". I think online voting would be excellent for both voter turnout and efficiency. But I don't think that the security platform exists to properly protect the election from online voter fraud yet - hence my view that we're not ready for online voting yet. In the long run I would love to see online voting, but not until we're absolutely sure that our government isn't going to be elected by some hacking genius in Russia. Yah that line of questioning needed work. Not sure why online was touted as being less safe necessarily. Why not start with referendums? It could save a heck of a lot of dough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Just now, S'all Good Man said: I came out of it as an "Innovator". I like to shake things up I agree on evening out provincial representation... not sure if PR can accomplish that on its own. One of the best examples of how PR can work is when Harper had a minority. Sure a lot of people disliked him, but the CPC was also held in check on a number of issues and the opposition had a lot more say. We still got things done. I don't subscribe to the idea that PR will lead to gridlock, and all we have to do is look South for what that looks like. I suspect a lot of the younger generation will get "innovator". I'm 25 but am just finishing up my law degree and have been pretty involved in politics for a while now, so I have a more traditional approach to the topic. I like a lot of the ideas that the innovator group support, but I I don't know if there is a practical way of implementing them YET. I would love to see things like online voting, better cooperation, etc, but our current system doesn't support it yet. I think that the provinces that contribute the most to Canada should get more of a say. The main issue is that BC and Alberta (which provide a huge chunk of Canada's GDP) get very little say. Alberta contributes nearly the same annual GDP as Quebec, but gets a fraction of the voting power. BC is slightly less than Quebec and Alberta, but has the same issue. It shouldn't be strictly about population because that means Ontario would pretty much decide the election by itself (as it currently does), but I also don't think giving Manitoba the same number of votes as Ontario would be a successful solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 12 minutes ago, Fateless said: I suspect a lot of the younger generation will get "innovator". I'm 25 but am just finishing up my law degree and have been pretty involved in politics for a while now, so I have a more traditional approach to the topic. I like a lot of the ideas that the innovator group support, but I I don't know if there is a practical way of implementing them YET. I would love to see things like online voting, better cooperation, etc, but our current system doesn't support it yet. I think that the provinces that contribute the most to Canada should get more of a say. The main issue is that BC and Alberta (which provide a huge chunk of Canada's GDP) get very little say. Alberta contributes nearly the same annual GDP as Quebec, but gets a fraction of the voting power. BC is slightly less than Quebec and Alberta, but has the same issue. It shouldn't be strictly about population because that means Ontario would pretty much decide the election by itself (as it currently does), but I also don't think giving Manitoba the same number of votes as Ontario would be a successful solution. Thats a very tricky proposition. Not saying its impossible, but that might be harder to figure out than senate reform! Sure AB contributes, today, a ton in oil royalties. But would you want to see their representation diminished when Canada goes green 30 years from now? AB is also a big employer, but they also get to benefit from a lot of engineers who grew up and were educated in other provinces e.g. I do think what you're talking about could be done though a more effective senate - that's where the regions balance out a bit more, not perfectly by any means, but in the big blocks of "west", "east" Quebec and the Maritimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Senate reform should be a higher priority. A United States style senate would do wonders for the balance of power. BC, AB, SK, MB, YK, NWT, NVT.... equating to 7/13 of the seats would definitely keep check on the positions held by East. FPTP, Proportional, whatever.... would not be as big as an issue anymore. Although a Proportional + US senate system would do wonders. More "fringe" parties will have their voices heard (eg. Greens) but they won't be kingmakers. Senate will protect regional interests. Unfortunately, this will serious demolish the power currently held by Quebec, so chances are nothing will ever be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, Lancaster said: Unfortunately, this will serious demolish the power currently held by Quebec, so chances are nothing will ever be changed. And here we nailed the real issue on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Innovators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clam linguine Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 What I care most about is not addressed. If a bill fails, the government falls. I don't like it. All votes in the House should be free votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Quote Members of Parliament that spend more time in their constituency working with constituents OR Members of Parliament that spend more time on Parliament Hill working on the issues that matter to their constituents? This question is stupid. You need to know what they want in order to work on their issues. Why are these 2 things being put against each other in a one or the other format? They should go together. My answer to the whole issue would be that I want a system that can accomplish both understanding the people and acting on the wishes of the people but apparently that's not an option. Edit: I realize maybe I'm taking it too literally but I mean come on. I ended up getting challenger. although not all my answers fell right in line with that description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 9 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: This question is stupid. You need to know what they want in order to work on their issues. Why are these 2 things being put against each other in a one or the other format? They should go together. My answer to the whole issue would be that I want a system that can accomplish both understanding the people and acting on the wishes of the people but apparently that's not an option. Edit: I realize maybe I'm taking it too literally but I mean come on. There were a few questions I thought were designed poorly. Things that were presented in an either/or scenario or emphasized negative aspects of one option when reality could offer many shades of grey or a mix of both etc. Quote Would you rather keep the status quo of voting in person or allow online voting which will probably include Russian hackers rigging the election while getting your SIN number, stealing your identity and sending a team of pit bulls to tear in to your nether regions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Oh the survey is horrible. No doubt about that. It's being panned pretty universally as a terrible set of questions. It doesn't ever actually ask you about electoral reform but that's the whole point. Definitely designed to get the answer they want. Also, read the fine print. If you don't provide your personal info, your input is trashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckamo Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 18 hours ago, inane said: Oh the survey is horrible. No doubt about that. It's being panned pretty universally as a terrible set of questions. It doesn't ever actually ask you about electoral reform but that's the whole point. Definitely designed to get the answer they want. Also, read the fine print. If you don't provide your personal info, your input is trashed. Yup. I found the survey was riddled with leading questions to try and sway people who might not have enough background information about the electoral systems being discussed. I hope they aren't trying to use this as some sort of proof that people want to keep FPTP because ... really? This is no more than a glorified personality quiz, and I cannot believe that the Federal government is spending money promoting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Some pretty dumb questions on that survey, but apparently I'm a Pragmatist. My favourite question: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 43 minutes ago, Green Building said: Some pretty dumb questions on that survey, but apparently I'm a Pragmatist. My favourite question: Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich? Nice and concise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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