(Discussion) Sbisa or gudbranson

[canucklehead44]

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

Thats only if he won't waive at the TDL. Gotta think Edler would hate Vegas.

This is what I was thinking. 

The TDL could get very interesting. Players under contract could be seen as rentals, since they can be exposed. 

Assuming Hansen gets protected, I'd say the pickup wire would go as follows:

1. Sbisa
2. Granlund
3. Gaunce

Even with some fancy work by Benning I think we lose at least Gaunce. IF we move Edler & Hansen at the TDL for picks, acquire a junk player in return to expose (forward), and "Corrado" Gaunce to the bench we can come out of this with a few assets for vets without losing any young talent. That said, we might not have to "Corrado" Gaunce if we leave him unsigned as he would have to choose to sign with Las Vegas over Vancouver. 

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Both, expose Edler, he's the least likely to be picked and if he does it's $5m+ of cap space and one lose NTC to deal with.

 

Losing a top pair D for nothing is such a horribly, HORRIBLY bad idea. 

 

HORRIBLY bad. 

[Provost]

Edler.

 

Might as well keep the young guys

[Phat Fingers]

Stuck working day shift today. I started out for work at 6 am. 

[JM_]

6 hours ago, Derp... said:

This is why you don't trade expansion exempt players for expansion eligible. 

 

You do if it improves your team. Assuming Guddy is an upgrade on Sbisa, then the trade is fine, particularly if you can recover some assets by moving Sbisa. 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Good summary of the situation.

 

I have wanted to trade Tanev all season simply because of perceived value and because his NTC does not kick in until summer. It would be a hard decision especially watching his great play against Edmonton. Tanev would bring back the most and that is why I do the deal. From a development perspective the Canucks need a heavier d-core that can handle CUP play not just regular season play. My gut fear with Tanev is that a heavy game can put him out. The same could be said about Stecher but he has a ozone upside that Tanev does not appear to have. Hopefully Tanev would bring back a prospect and draft pick that could help the front end.

 

Edler at 20 minutes of TOI is still a very effective two way d-man. (Still made a couple of bad plays last night) He could finish his contract and maybe even renew. By the time he is ready to retire or move on Joulevi should be ready (2 years).

 

Sbisa was a top d-man again last night. As suggested Tryamkin is showing more every game. Hutton has the offence potential along with Stecher. Guddy is still a question but it is way to early to pass judgement. I like the look of this group and it is fast becoming/is the backbone of the team.

One of the most underrated skill (at least, here in our forums) of Tanev is how he makes other D-men better. He has been the Dmen-whisperer for Edler and now Hutton. When Gudbranson's back and if Gudbranson's again paired with Hutton, it would make for some bad-looking hockey again on Hutton's part.

[coryberg]

35 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

That said, we might not have to "Corrado" Gaunce if we leave him unsigned as he would have to choose to sign with Las Vegas over Vancouver. 

 

Gaunce will be a RFA. Therefore vegas could select him and extend a qualifying offer to retain his rights. If he then signed with us it would be a offer sheet and we would have to give compensation, (assuming vegas doesn't just match).

[JM_]

I'm a Sbisa supporter, but he is the odd man out in this. Injuries have forced Willie and Benning to give up on the Hutton-Guddy pairing for now, and now we're seeing some solid D from a better balanced group. I think once Hutton picks up some more experience this year you can put them back together next season. One of the best things about Stecher is his effect on Edler - its allowed Edler to play more physically and he seems more confident. If WD is willing to try Tryamkin in the top 4 next season things could get interesting. 

 

Edler-Stecher

Tryamkin-Tanev

Hutton-Guddy 

Juolevi-Timothy Liljegren (yes I'm hoping we draft him)

[Visp]

6 hours ago, linden17 said:

this is canucks.com at its best. sbisa or gudbranson? Sbisa this year does have our best plus minus but cmon......really cmon. ? how about using sbisa as trade bait for a draft pick. seriously.....is this for real?

 

Cmon what? The Sbisa hate is so 2016....

Preferably keep them both if possible but if we had to, definately protect Sbisa. Not only is he playing better, he will be a better cap hit going forward too

[canucklehead44]

23 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Gaunce will be a RFA. Therefore vegas could select him and extend a qualifying offer to retain his rights. If he then signed with us it would be a offer sheet and we would have to give compensation, (assuming vegas doesn't just match).

I am not sure how it works. From what I understand Vegas can go in and negotiate with un-signed RFAs and UFAs 48 hours before the draft. If they are able to sign the RFA then they don't select another player from that team, but if it is a UFA it doesn't matter. 

So in this scenario, if Gaunce does not accept an offer from Vegas he is not eligible to be selected in the draft as he would re-main unsigned. BUT lets say Gaunce gets offered 2 million dollars - Vancouver has to match that and if they sign him he becomes eligible. So chance are if Vegas wants him they will get him.  There is no way he turns down that offer in faith that Vancouver offers as much. 

 

So what would need to happen, is Gaunce's agent goes to JB and tells him what Vegas is offering and whether, on faith, he can match that after the expansion draft. If the offer is reasonable, lets say 1.25 million per year over two years, I think chances are Gaunce waits and signs with Vancouver. 

 

• Some GMs were surprised to learn Las Vegas will have 48 hours from the time protected lists are released to negotiate with restricted free agents left unprotected. If a team loses an RFA, it won’t lose a player in the expansion draft."
   

[coryberg]

21 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

I am not sure how it works. From what I understand Vegas can go in and negotiate with un-signed RFAs and UFAs 48 hours before the draft. If they are able to sign the RFA then they don't select another player from that team, but if it is a UFA it doesn't matter. 

So in this scenario, if Gaunce does not accept an offer from Vegas he is not eligible to be selected in the draft as he would re-main unsigned. BUT lets say Gaunce gets offered 2 million dollars - Vancouver has to match that and if they sign him he becomes eligible. So chance are if Vegas wants him they will get him.  There is no way he turns down that offer in faith that Vancouver offers as much. 

 

So what would need to happen, is Gaunce's agent goes to JB and tells him what Vegas is offering and whether, on faith, he can match that after the expansion draft. If the offer is reasonable, lets say 1.25 million per year over two years, I think chances are Gaunce waits and signs with Vancouver. 

 

• Some GMs were surprised to learn Las Vegas will have 48 hours from the time protected lists are released to negotiate with restricted free agents left unprotected. If a team loses an RFA, it won’t lose a player in the expansion draft."
   

Regular RFA rules apply. They are selecting the players rights. Dallas has a tough spot with nikushkin, he is in the KHL for at least another season but he is eligable as a nhl rfa.

 

As for ufa's....

 

http://sinbin.vegas/curious-role-ufas-expansion-draft/

 

However, if a UFA is left unprotected in the Expansion Draft, Las Vegas will be granted exclusive rights to negotiate a contract with the player during the three day draft period on June 17-20. If Las Vegas comes to an agreement with a player, and a deal is signed, that player is considered Vegas’ selection in the draft from the UFAs current team.

 

[hyper00]

We have yet to see Gudbranson at his full potential, we've seen him in a Florida uniform so lets what he does in the Blue and Green. Sbisa was the whipping boy for a few years so lets be patient, we're not guaranteed Playoffs this year so lets give the young guys a chance. 

[SilentSam]

8 hours ago, orcasgonewild said:

in the events of an expansion draft do you protect sbisa or Gudbranson? 

 

 

 

I personally want both so please give your input.

 

Or maybe there's someone else you would expose. Let me know 

EDLER.

[Vanisleryan]

So if we say trade Sbisa and expose Biega...we are almost certain losing one of Baer, Granlund or Hansen (doubtful Vegas takes Biega) and maybe we get a 2nd back for Sbisa if lucky. He is way more valuable then a 2nd if you ask me. I think at the deadline we move Biega for a 4th or so...his value is not going to be in him as a player, its in him a a piece in a chess match which is expansion. This way exposing Sbisa saves us potentially losing a forward (which of the 3 I view as all better then a 2nd). Why lose Sbisa and a forward and still have Biega next year which clearly wont crack the lineup next year and have zero trade value. Biegas trade value will never be higher than this year. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Vanisleryan said:

So if we say trade Sbisa and expose Biega...we are almost certain losing one of Baer, Granlund or Hansen (doubtful Vegas takes Biega) and maybe we get a 2nd back for Sbisa if lucky. He is way more valuable then a 2nd if you ask me. I think at the deadline we move Biega for a 4th or so...his value is not going to be in him as a player, its in him a a piece in a chess match which is expansion. This way exposing Sbisa saves us potentially losing a forward (which of the 3 I view as all better then a 2nd). Why lose Sbisa and a forward and still have Biega next year which clearly wont crack the lineup next year and have zero trade value. Biegas trade value will never be higher than this year. 

How about trade Tanev and Hansen?

[hlinkas wrister]

If Gudbranson is exposed we lose McCaan for nothing- not acceptable. We have Juolevi coming up as left hand D depth so that makes Sbisa more expendable as well. 

[Rush17]

4 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Trade one of Sbisa, Tanev, Edler and Gudbranson for the best return and the least loss to the organization. 

 

 

Sbisa should be worth worth a prospect or 2nd rounder to a playoff bound team.  He has been playing well and worth his current contract.  His minutes, along with Gudbranson's would be easier to replace than others. 

 

He is very versatile and we will likely look back and feel that we let him go cheaply in a few years. 

 

Gudbranson, has not played all that well in a very small sample with an injury, so hard to assess value. It is never good to sell an asset in those conditions. We won't get back what we paid for him.

 

So his value is low atm and he won't be back in the lineup until close to the TDL. Based on that alone, we keep him. He does provide a type of player that we certainly lack, one year younger than Sbisa, who has greatly improved. No reason to count out this 3rd OA pick yet, he is about to hit his prime. He would get a 2nd or a prospect, like Sbisa.

 

Edler and Tanev.  Both are back and showing fans, GM's and other players how important they are as players. Both are on great contracts for the value with term left.  They would be highly sought after at the TDL for any team with a shot at the cup. 

 

The return would have to be a 1st rounder, a really good prospect and a usable depth player that could be exposed to Vegas. 

 

We would have a huge hole to fill. Hutton, Trymakin and Sbisa can all take top 4 minutes on the left side and Juolevi is in the wings.  

 

On the right side we have Guddy and Stecher. Both Sbisa and Trymakin can play RHD, but top 4 minutes on their off side?  Brisbiois and Subban are in the wings, but both are a long way off.  

 

We can likely absorb the loss of Edler easier than the loss of Tanev.  Tanev can be traded to any team and Edler would have to waive his NTC.  

 

Tough choices all around.  Losing one of these players to Vegas is ridiculous. Someone needs to go. Who goes will tell us a lot about JB's path with this franchise. If Sbisa goes, then JB thinks we can become competitive within a year or two. If one of Tanev and Edler leave, JB has gotten the message and is going to complete the rebuild properly.  If Guddy goes, then JB is an idiot for buying high and selling low. 

 

EW

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll let jb make the call. you can't limit your trade options just because a player hasn't panned out like guddy.  I'd be ok with him getting moved for a less then amazing package it it helps the team long term.  I'd take a late 1st and an 2nd or 3rd if JB has a player in his eyes.  

 

canner was good but wasn't in the long term plans.  we need players that fit the mould.  jb go do work.  I won't hold it against ya!

[Vanisleryan]

Just now, Alflives said:

How about trade Tanev and Hansen?

I agree their value is high too right now. And then protect Sbisa and expose Biega is that what your getting at. So we almost certainly lose Baer or Granny...but reap a good reward in the Tanev Hansen trade. Only problem I see this year with trading core guys is that the other team needs to have room to protect them. Those trades will be more difficult this year.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

Losing a top pair D for nothing is such a horribly, HORRIBLY bad idea. 

 

HORRIBLY bad. 

I'm curious why you think that.  NTC's have handicapped this team for a long time and though Edler is still effective, he won't be for long.  With his back, his decline will be swift in the next year or so.

 

Sbisa and Guddy are young, almost as effective as Eddie, are only going to get better for the next cpl years and will plateau in their prime for a cpl years before they begin their decline.  

 

By exposing Edler you gain valuable cap space to help the rebuild, you rid yourself of an NTC and you make room for young dmen.  I honestly think his NTC, cap hit, injury history and age are deterrents to an expansion club anyway.  To me, it makes perfect sense to expose him.

 

The only caveat, and I'm sure this is what you're getting at, is to move him at the tdl by using the draft as leverage.  I would have no issue with that.  One of him or Tanev have to go.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Vanisleryan said:

I agree their value is high too right now. And then protect Sbisa and expose Biega is that what your getting at. So we almost certainly lose Baer or Granny...but reap a good reward in the Tanev Hansen trade. Only problem I see this year with trading core guys is that the other team needs to have room to protect them. Those trades will be more difficult this year.

True on all accounts.  Trading for another player who needs protecting is likely the return, so better to keep our guys?