Jam126 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 So, of TWO teams that have intentionally tanked: Buffalo: Still sucks Toronto: Outscoring their troubles with a great goaltender (Basically this year's Canucks team except with WAY more offensive talent) Looks like Guardian has no idea what he's talking about, AGAIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Crabcakes said: Another thread to attract people who don't like Bennings plan. Answer this: How many NHL teams out there have zero 0.5 players from 7 consecutive drafts (2005-2011) playing on their team? I'll help you with the math. These players would be 22-29 years old this year. Now explain to me how the Canucks situation is not unique? And why you insist on comparing them to the Leafs and Oilers? Don't forget our benchwarmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, appleboy said: We may still get a very high pick yet this year. The playoffs are a dream that will slowly be a distant past. A player like Rasmussen may be hanging around that 5 to 10 spot. The good news is that the man making the picks is not asleep. Boeser at 23 is a feather in his cap to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Don't forget our benchwarmer Yes, Anton Rodin. Until he turns into a player, I can still trot this stat out legitimately. Even so, it's shocking as hell to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Alflives said: I feel for a guy like Bo, who will play his entire career without really having a chance at a Cup. WT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beary Sweet Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, hearditall said: WT? I feel you. Pretty ridiculous saying that. Hope that Bo proves him wrong some day so he can eat those words. Bo is a leader already today and it's only a matter of time till he leads our team back there. Patience is what most need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Alflives said: That's so true. There is an assumption here (by many) that a rebuild automatically means a Cup competitive team. It's just not the case. God, just look at the youthful emerging cores in Edmonton and Calgary. Honestly, will our next core compete with those two teams? You're right about another management group will come here, and rebuild their next core. Are we looking at 10 years away from maybe competing? Calgary and Edmonton have been bad teams for a long time. We couldn't possibly be where they are currently. We were an old team with no prospect pool 2 1/2 years ago when Linden and Benning took over. Name one team that when from old with no prospect pool to competitive in two years. Both Calgary and Edmonton have had years of drafting and developing players. Anybody outside the first round is 3 to 5 years away from playing in the NHL let alone being impact players. Both Calgary and Edmonton have had that time and more already. Then add in all those years of non-playoff first rounders they've had compared to us. Quit complaining we're not where they are when it's simply not possible to be. Rebuilds take time and we've just started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Baggins said: Calgary and Edmonton have been bad teams for a long time. We couldn't possibly be where they are currently. We were an old team with no prospect pool 2 1/2 years ago when Linden and Benning took over. Name one team that when from old with no prospect pool to competitive in two years. Both Calgary and Edmonton have had years of drafting and developing players. Anybody outside the first round is 3 to 5 years away from playing in the NHL let alone being impact players. Both Calgary and Edmonton have had that time and more already. Then add in all those years of non-playoff first rounders they've had compared to us. Quit complaining we're not where they are when it's simply not possible to be. Rebuilds take time and we've just started. Last season Calgary finished the season 2 points ahead of us at the end of the season...This season they are 4 points ahead of us,just after the midway point..Their results mirror ours,and they've been rebuilding X number of years more than us....Watching the Canucks play the Flames this season,have they owned us ?..2 wins and 2 losses..go figure. More of our prospects will be making the jump next season,and again..the gap gets narrower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 9 hours ago, appleboy said: WE ALL GET IT! TORONTO HAS A GREAT MANAGEMENT AND WE DON"T. THEY HAVE GREAT PROSPECTS AND WE DON"T. I see we agree finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruilin96 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 This is irrelevant. When the Oilers finished 3rd last in the NHL, they won the draft lottery and they ended up with Connor McDavid. The Leafs finished with the worst record and again they won the Draft Lottery and got Auston Matthews. We finished 3rd last in the league last year and what we end up with was the 5th overall selection because we drop 2 spots. If we won the draft lottery last April and we drafted Matthews instead (or even Laine), right now the league would be talking about how the Canucks are successful in our "retool on the fly" and this team would be a much better with a center punch featuring Matthews and Horvat. A lot of this has to do with luck and unfortunately, for 47 years and counting, luck has never been with the Vancouver Canucks. Maybe it will change maybe it will not, all we fans can do is watch how things unfold. We also never know if any of our late round picks could turn out to be steals of the century and we just have to embrace the fact that we are no longer this elite team that wins back to back president's trophy. It is time for a new core group of player to be developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 10 hours ago, Baggins said: Calgary and Edmonton have been bad teams for a long time. We couldn't possibly be where they are currently. We were an old team with no prospect pool 2 1/2 years ago when Linden and Benning took over. Name one team that when from old with no prospect pool to competitive in two years. Both Calgary and Edmonton have had years of drafting and developing players. Anybody outside the first round is 3 to 5 years away from playing in the NHL let alone being impact players. Both Calgary and Edmonton have had that time and more already. Then add in all those years of non-playoff first rounders they've had compared to us. Quit complaining we're not where they are when it's simply not possible to be. Rebuilds take time and we've just started. Monaghan, Goudreau, Bennet, Tkatchuk are all very young guys. We have Bo. Bo is great, but he cannot do it all on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 18 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: April 11, 2014, Leafs hire Shanahan, hire Babcock April 25, 2015, hire Lou Lamoriello April 25, 2015, Oilers hire Peter Chiarelli, May 19, 2015, hire Todd McLellan April 9, 2014, Canucks hire Linden., May 21, 2014, hire Jim Benning, June 23, 2014 hire Willie Desjardins All three teams cleaned management's house, new coaches, GM's, Presidents The Oilers and the Leafs had been re-tooling or rebuilding for a decade before this total clean out, both teams had been fighting to merely try to make the playoffs, both teams had management constantly telling the fans, they thought they were competitive teams, they were close, they had to draft and grow their players in the minors. Toronto's farm team was very good, Edmonton's not so much. But having a good farm team didn't translate into a good NHL team, the difference between leagues is just enough that good AHL players very rarely make a difference in the NHL. The Canucks had missed the playoffs only once in the previous 6 years before cleaning house, in those years the best draft position came through a trade, the trade that brought Horvat to the team, before that they had drafted, 26th, 29th, 115th, 22nd, 10th and 25th as their 1rst pick. The Leafs had made the playoffs once in 9 years but their draft spots were, not in 5, 7, 43, 22, 5, 21 and 8th before hiring Shanahan. All the while trying to retool/improve the team for a playoff spot. The Oilers, well the Oilers had the NHL invent a new rule, that bad. Since the rearranging of management, for the Oilers the draft didn't change much, they got lucky with McDavid. The Leafs were starting their "planned and controlled" dive in the standings in 2015 dipping around 20 pts from 2014 and then DL in 2016 and drafting Mathews. The Canucks drafted (6 th, 24th), 23rd and 5th, none of these players are playing for the team. The improvement of the Leafs and Oilers this year is sometime attributed to luck, but this luck coincides with decisions of ownership to gut management and install the very best they could hire to run the team. The Leafs still insist they aren't done yet but the 9 point improvement and 26 to 11 th in the standings, at this date, will probably alter their goals as they look to be a lock in for the playoffs. The lucky Oilers also look to be locks for the playoffs with a 14 point and moving from 29th to 10th in the league improvement suggests. The Canucks are fighting for a playoff spot, they still have about the same number of points as last year. In the past other teams have planned the dive Tampa twice, Pittsburgh twice, Washington once, Chicago once, Montreal once, Philly twice, Florida (Tallon) and Arizona ongoing. some team tried and failed, no one remembers them except some that want to point out it doesn't work, it doesn't, not all the time but how many remember Patrick White? Snail pace of core changing is getting to you. That's ok I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 18 hours ago, Alflives said: That's so true. There is an assumption here (by many) that a rebuild automatically means a Cup competitive team. It's just not the case. God, just look at the youthful emerging cores in Edmonton and Calgary. Honestly, will our next core compete with those two teams? You're right about another management group will come here, and rebuild their next core. Are we looking at 10 years away from maybe competing? We almost can now, with about 1/2 the lines being plugs or nearly-retired. We need to see what Demko will be. Look at MTL, and what are they without Price? And they are a contender. Its not this dark Alf, not by a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunderwood Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 We were cup contenders in the last ten years. Edmonton and Toronto weren't. That's the difference. Nobody would have let go of our team at the time (2008 - 2013) for anything, because they were elite. Now we are in transition to a new core. Give it time. Every time we compare ourselves to these teams, it's just whining and moaning. We've had to deal with a bad team for what? 2 years. 3 at most. And you can already see the next core emerging. Toronto and Edmonton have dealt with it for close to 10 years to get where they are now. Considering that, we're not so far behind. We may not have these dynamic forwards that you drool over. But our future (2 - 3 years from now) core already consists of An A level prospect Elite goaltender. An A level prospect Elite sniper. An A level prospect Elite defender. Oh and then you have Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Hutton, Stecher. Chill guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 15 hours ago, Jam126 said: So, of TWO teams that have intentionally tanked: Buffalo: Still sucks Toronto: Outscoring their troubles with a great goaltender (Basically this year's Canucks team except with WAY more offensive talent) Looks like Guardian has no idea what he's talking about, AGAIN. Buffalo might suck today, and this remains good for them and their process/plan, but their tomorrow is very bright and are one more draft away from having the next Hawks-like accumulation of draft awesomeness. What's not to be excited about as a fan? They're at the tail end of a successful rebuild, with this year looking to add another one or two top prospects to complete the stable, and the fans get to now watch the plan pay off for the next decade. Toronto, a team of rookies, currently out scoring their mistakes? And? Not a bad place to be in year 2-3 of a rebuild and nothing but room to acquire help keeping pucks out of their end. Their prospect cupboard is still decent for such a short sample-size of the Snannaplan. Considering where they currently sit in the standings and the entertainment this roster provides for its fans, lets all agree that this plan is working and will continue to give their fans what they want. The Canucks dug in and refused to take a knee during a critical transition and in critical draft years. This has resultied in having zero in common with the other teams because there is nothing to compare. If JB suddenly has 10 picks after the TDL, I will be willing to go into the draft and summer with the word, rebuild, on my lips, but until then, mid-round picks and a team of Chaputs, Megnas, etc combined with the vets, is hardly a Buff or TO comparison. This stalling by the Canucks has driven tankers bonkers. The "real fans" are instead happy to pick mid-round and call the enevitable death of the core, the rebuild, even though no plan is in place to fast track it, which is sadly mistaken as patience by these superior fans. Until the fans stop paying to watch the team live, nothing will change. Glad I'm not a season ticket holder, during this "plan" era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 53 minutes ago, Tunderwood said: We were cup contenders in the last ten years. Edmonton and Toronto weren't. That's the difference. Nobody would have let go of our team at the time (2008 - 2013) for anything, because they were elite. Now we are in transition to a new core. Give it time. Every time we compare ourselves to these teams, it's just whining and moaning. We've had to deal with a bad team for what? 2 years. 3 at most. And you can already see the next core emerging. Toronto and Edmonton have dealt with it for close to 10 years to get where they are now. Considering that, we're not so far behind. We may not have these dynamic forwards that you drool over. But our future (2 - 3 years from now) core already consists of An A level prospect Elite goaltender. An A level prospect Elite sniper. An A level prospect Elite defender. Oh and then you have Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Hutton, Stecher. Chill guys. You bet. Look what's happening to MIN this year simply by signing a UFA that was supposed to be washed up on E Staal. Our cap space will become one of the best parts in the toolbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 23 minutes ago, IBatch said: You bet. Look what's happening to MIN this year simply by signing a UFA that was supposed to be washed up on E Staal. Our cap space will become one of the best parts in the toolbox. So will TO's just how these things work when you have your core come up within 2 years of each other in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said: So will TO's just how these things work when you have your core come up within 2 years of each other in the draft. I hate to admit that TO finally looks in a premo spot to make their rebuild work. Nylander Mathews and Marner look like great players to build around and without any bad veteran contracts lying around their fire sale looks like a wise move....Luck played into it for sure...But the gamble paid off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, IBatch said: I hate to admit that TO finally looks in a premo spot to make their rebuild work. Nylander Mathews and Marner look like great players to build around and without any bad veteran contracts lying around their fire sale looks like a wise move....Luck played into it for sure...But the gamble paid off... Same boat, having to admit that TO has a future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqua59 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 20 hours ago, Alflives said: Great post! There are several teams with emerging young cores leading their teams to the playoffs. Then there is us. lol. If this is a planned tank it's about as successful as the PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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