[PGT] Predators @ Canucks

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Yeah, but his skating and mobility need work... right, Alf?

 

 

When he rushes the zone like that or goes to the net... who's gonna stop him?  He blew right by the guy who was supposed to cover him.

Alf is on record saying he loves Tryamkin's feet.  The kid is an excellent skater.  I remember Tryamkin from the WJC, and really liking him then.  I loved that pick from day one.  It's Pedan who is not a good skater.  

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

35 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Alf is just upset that Benning took him in the 3rd round.

 

All the elite D are taken in the 2nd don'tcha know?

Lmao.

[CaptainLinden16]

2 hours ago, alfstonker said:

On the contrary it was you who was being condescending to these "poorer" teams, I just pointed out how silly that was. I will leave it to the countless coaches, players etc to constantly say any team can beat any other on any given night.

 

We are only 6 points ahead of the 3rd bottom team in the league.

 

The Sabres put 4 past NYR and the Flyers this month. Detroit put 6 past the Pens and defeated the Habs in their last 2 games. We beat Colorado in a SO and 3-2 this season. That leaves Arizona who obviously have management/coaching problems with Tippett seemingly imploding. That is one "poor" team.

 

I don't hate the Sedins I just don't want them renewed.

 

 

So then no opinion matters outside of what's said on television by the experts.  That's interesting.  What's he point of this forum?  Why are you here?  Everything there is to know is on TV.  

 

Look ok you can have a different opinion that's fine.  Just don't be so smug and self satisfied all the time making circular arguments.  Your opinion aligns with the TV and the only way to have a valid opinion is if it's on TV.  

 

Just because a bad team beats a good team over an 82 game season doesn't make it a good team.  This isn't the NFL and even in that league you see similar teams at the top every year.  To say that there is absolute parity or anything close to it isn't accurate. The league is a lot tighter because of the looser point in OT.  When that goes away or they go to 3 points for a win then we will see much bigger gaps...

 

You are also ignoring the situational elements that are just as important as overall quality.  Travel, time between games, staring goalies, injuries, runs of form, etc...a good team can become an easy target playing 5 games in 8 nights while playing their backup and having their best player hurt.  You can't just assume that is the same team that plays on 4 nights rest with a healthy roster and their starter in.  I mean, I think that's obvious.

 

The point is not that Willie doesn't understand that, as that is ridiculous.  He just doesn't care and keeps playing ultra defensively.  I would like to know why.  As it doesn't make any sense to me.  There a lot of people on here that feel the same.  You retort with that we are all dumb because willlie is more experienced than anyone on here. I can't dispute that.  What's the point of the forum then?  Just to meme and to transcribe the games and announce the lineups and injuries.  TSN and ESPN do a solid job of that.

[alfstonker]

8 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

So then no opinion matters outside of what's said on television by the experts.  That's interesting.  What's he point of this forum?  Why are you here?  Everything there is to know is on TV.  

 

Look ok you can have a different opinion that's fine.  Just don't be so smug and self satisfied all the time making circular arguments.  Your opinion aligns with the TV and the only way to have a valid opinion is if it's on TV.  

 

Just because a bad team beats a good team over an 82 game season doesn't make it a good team.  This isn't the NFL and even in that league you see similar teams at the top every year.  To say that there is absolute parity or anything close to it isn't accurate. The league is a lot tighter because of the looser point in OT.  When that goes away or they go to 3 points for a win then we will see much bigger gaps...

 

You are also ignoring the situational elements that are just as important as overall quality.  Travel, time between games, staring goalies, injuries, runs of form, etc...a good team can become an easy target playing 5 games in 8 nights while playing their backup and having their best player hurt.  You can't just assume that is the same team that plays on 4 nights rest with a healthy roster and their starter in.  I mean, I think that's obvious.

 

The point is not that Willie doesn't understand that, as that is ridiculous.  He just doesn't care and keeps playing ultra defensively.  I would like to know why.  As it doesn't make any sense to me.  There a lot of people on here that feel the same.  You retort with that we are all dumb because willlie is more experienced than anyone on here. I can't dispute that.  What's the point of the forum then?  Just to meme and to transcribe the games and announce the lineups and injuries.  TSN and ESPN do a solid job of that.

You're not stating an opinion though are you. You are stating it like it was a fact with no evidence at all to back it up.

I'm not smug and self satisfied I just don't like how some of our "FANS" seem to have an addiction for disrespecting the team, players, coaches and management. If I can post some logical rebuttal that tends to annoy these people.

 

Much of your post was imo fairly accurate, however when you insert lines like the following I find it hard to take.

 

"There are a lot of bad teams in the league.  Most have a problem with depth.  We don't.  

 

Bottom line is we we have to play more aggressively against poor teams, injured teams or teams on poor runs of form.  We have to try and go out and get the first goal sometimes.  Can't win every game 1-0."

 

Much of that is eccentric to say the least and seems to assume we are some kind of top 5 outfit. Where do you get off calling other teams bad? I pointed out our own position and some of the recent results by these "bad" teams.

You then go on to say we don't have a problem with depth - really? It seems to me we have a huge problem with depth when we find ourselves playing 3 "career AHLers"

Every team has injuries and some would argue we have more than most. But most of these teams have AHL prospects to call on. Due to past management we don't - yet.

You say we have to play more aggressively, well if you mean we need to be more physical then you must realise we don't have a heavy team. We didn't hang back against NJD we just couldn't make the openings or convert the ones we did make - that happens in sport, any sport.

 

You say we have to try and get the first goal sometimes, as if Vancouver was the only team thinking that, they aren't. As someone else pointed out, better to win every game 1-0 than lose half of them.

 

In all of this it seems to have escaped you that we are a team in transition. We have still a good few place holders, we have suffered some critical injuries, we have a very young and inexperienced D and we have a top line which has seen happier days. Does that describe a top 5 team to you, a team that should be dictating who gets the first goal, or a team who can feel entitled to beat any of the teams below them in this league?

 

You did get one thing right though. This team goes out and grafts most nights and when they do come up short it is seldom down to lack of effort. Yes it's not always pretty, how could it be otherwise, with so many AHL players and so many players, good players, out injured.

Instead of criticising these boys and the coach we should admire how they have dealt with adversity and how the coach has bonded them into a team that no one can take lightly.

 

We still have a long way to go but I am pleased that the team seems to be proving the majority of "experts" wrong and look set to give us a real chance at a wild card spot. Quite honestly I often compare out lineup most nights and wonder how we do it.

[alfstonker]

11 hours ago, gino#29 said:

stecher played 10 minutes with the flu and almost puked,why didn't they play pedan?if they get off on saying to the fans he sucks and isn't worthy of getting in the lineup all year,why do they keep calling him up?they'd rather dress 5 D then play him this is the second time.why did they fire their longtime trainers and bring in these new age weirdo's.it ain't working.

Knowing Stecher as we do, he probably said he was good to go. A lot of players would rather play than risk losing their place - it doesn't always work out.

[CaptainLinden16]

3 hours ago, alfstonker said:

You're not stating an opinion though are you. You are stating it like it was a fact with no evidence at all to back it up.

I'm not smug and self satisfied I just don't like how some of our "FANS" seem to have an addiction for disrespecting the team, players, coaches and management. If I can post some logical rebuttal that tends to annoy these people.

 

Much of your post was imo fairly accurate, however when you insert lines like the following I find it hard to take.

 

"There are a lot of bad teams in the league.  Most have a problem with depth.  We don't.  

 

Bottom line is we we have to play more aggressively against poor teams, injured teams or teams on poor runs of form.  We have to try and go out and get the first goal sometimes.  Can't win every game 1-0."

 

Much of that is eccentric to say the least and seems to assume we are some kind of top 5 outfit. Where do you get off calling other teams bad? I pointed out our own position and some of the recent results by these "bad" teams.

You then go on to say we don't have a problem with depth - really? It seems to me we have a huge problem with depth when we find ourselves playing 3 "career AHLers"

Every team has injuries and some would argue we have more than most. But most of these teams have AHL prospects to call on. Due to past management we don't - yet.

You say we have to play more aggressively, well if you mean we need to be more physical then you must realise we don't have a heavy team. We didn't hang back against NJD we just couldn't make the openings or convert the ones we did make - that happens in sport, any sport.

 

You say we have to try and get the first goal sometimes, as if Vancouver was the only team thinking that, they aren't. As someone else pointed out, better to win every game 1-0 than lose half of them.

 

In all of this it seems to have escaped you that we are a team in transition. We have still a good few place holders, we have suffered some critical injuries, we have a very young and inexperienced D and we have a top line which has seen happier days. Does that describe a top 5 team to you, a team that should be dictating who gets the first goal, or a team who can feel entitled to beat any of the teams below them in this league?

 

You did get one thing right though. This team goes out and grafts most nights and when they do come up short it is seldom down to lack of effort. Yes it's not always pretty, how could it be otherwise, with so many AHL players and so many players, good players, out injured.

Instead of criticising these boys and the coach we should admire how they have dealt with adversity and how the coach has bonded them into a team that no one can take lightly.

 

We still have a long way to go but I am pleased that the team seems to be proving the majority of "experts" wrong and look set to give us a real chance at a wild card spot. Quite honestly I often compare out lineup most nights and wonder how we do it.

 You tend to lump opinions together based off of threads.  I know there is a need heavy team - hate Willie - play more aggressively camp.  I like the Detroit model.  I like Eriksson and Granlund and the Downey soft twins.  I like watching skill.  I do want to see offensive hockey on most nights.  What the good Detroit teams did well that we don't is having a net front presence on every line with two skill players (holmstrom, franzen, shanahan, abdelkader).  I don't care if we win in the hit counter.  Teams that don't have the puck win in the hit counter.  I hate watching LA play.  Brain dead and paint dry hockey...lots of shots from everywhere too.

 

A good coach starts with the fundamentals and concentrates on defense and allows the team open up slowly.  We are frozen shut.  He has done the first part masterfully.  Can we please see a little bit more push in situations that warrant it.  Look I argued with Deniro and Blunt in the beginning of the season that we needed to trap because we have a lot of quick not fast two way forwards.  So it's not that the system doesn't make any sense relative to the team.  It's that he continues to play it even when we can and should play more aggressively.   The margins of error are paper thin playing like that.  You are completely at the whim of puck luck.

 

Again, I don't hate Willie.  He has the group playing as a team that plays hard.  Few coaches accomplish that for longer than a couple of months.  He just has his weaknesses just like anyone else. My observation and other people's observation of those weaknesses is just that.  There are no facts in hockey other than statistics.  But the eye test still exists. Our GM has made some brilliant calls going against the grain of statistics and analytics.  So no I have no facts but i am in the same boat as everyone on here including you.

 

We won't make the playoffs.  If you look at our schedule, we had a really good run of favorable matchups that continues until the end of the month.  Once February comes we will settle in at 9-12 in the conference.  No shame in that.    If we were healthy, we would be in a playoff spot right now.  That is always the difference.

 

This team isn't as bad as it looks.  We are not a shoot from anywhere kind of team, and we allow a lot of perimeter shots because we are in good position most games.  This skews the Corsi stuff by a lot.  Take a look at our shooing percentages by the forwards the top 9 are all over 10%.  That denotes skill and intelligence.  We have no dominant players who can take over a game, but we do have depth.  We have a very deep forward group. Granlund, Eriksson, sutter, Burrows, Hansen, Sedins, Baertschi and Horvat are all pacing solid 2nd liner stats over a full season.  That's 9 players!  There are maybe 8 teams with that kind of depth at forward.  Now let's not go overboard I am talking depth not overall talent.  You can't bundle all that together and get Crosby and Mallin or Toews and Kane or ovechkin and Backstrom. We do need Elite players, but make no mistake we do have depth at forward.

 

This team is one 50 point offensive defenseman away from being a playoff team.  I would sell the farm for Ekman-Larsson.

[gino#29]

4 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Knowing Stecher as we do, he probably said he was good to go. A lot of players would rather play than risk losing their place - it doesn't always work out.

good on him,it;s a long season though,you have to go to reserves every once in awhile.the D's looking a lot better than last year for sure.

[stawns]

18 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

The trap is playing all of your players in the neutral zone and not forechecking.  That is the definition of the trap.  That game wasn't nearly as trappy as the NJ game, but we sure stacked the neutral zone all game long.

No, no it isn't.

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

 You tend to lump opinions together based off of threads.  I know there is a need heavy team - hate Willie - play more aggressively camp.  I like the Detroit model.  I like Eriksson and Granlund and the Downey soft twins.  I like watching skill.  I do want to see offensive hockey on most nights.  What the good Detroit teams did well that we don't is having a net front presence on every line with two skill players (holmstrom, franzen, shanahan, abdelkader).  I don't care if we win in the hit counter.  Teams that don't have the puck win in the hit counter.  I hate watching LA play.  Brain dead and paint dry hockey...lots of shots from everywhere too.

 

A good coach starts with the fundamentals and concentrates on defense and allows the team open up slowly.  We are frozen shut.  He has done the first part masterfully.  Can we please see a little bit more push in situations that warrant it.  Look I argued with Deniro and Blunt in the beginning of the season that we needed to trap because we have a lot of quick not fast two way forwards.  So it's not that the system doesn't make any sense relative to the team.  It's that he continues to play it even when we can and should play more aggressively.   The margins of error are paper thin playing like that.  You are completely at the whim of puck luck.

 

Again, I don't hate Willie.  He has the group playing as a team that plays hard.  Few coaches accomplish that for longer than a couple of months.  He just has his weaknesses just like anyone else. My observation and other people's observation of those weaknesses is just that.  There are no facts in hockey other than statistics.  But the eye test still exists. Our GM has made some brilliant calls going against the grain of statistics and analytics.  So no I have no facts but i am in the same boat as everyone on here including you.

 

We won't make the playoffs.  If you look at our schedule, we had a really good run of favorable matchups that continues until the end of the month.  Once February comes we will settle in at 9-12 in the conference.  No shame in that.    If we were healthy, we would be in a playoff spot right now.  That is always the difference.

 

This team isn't as bad as it looks.  We are not a shoot from anywhere kind of team, and we allow a lot of perimeter shots because we are in good position most games.  This skews the Corsi stuff by a lot.  Take a look at our shooing percentages by the forwards the top 9 are all over 10%.  That denotes skill and intelligence.  We have no dominant players who can take over a game, but we do have depth.  We have a very deep forward group. Granlund, Eriksson, sutter, Burrows, Hansen, Sedins, Baertschi and Horvat are all pacing solid 2nd liner stats over a full season.  That's 9 players!  There are maybe 8 teams with that kind of depth at forward.  Now let's not go overboard I am talking depth not overall talent.  You can't bundle all that together and get Crosby and Mallin or Toews and Kane or ovechkin and Backstrom. We do need Elite players, but make no mistake we do have depth at forward.

 

This team is one 50 point offensive defenseman away from being a playoff team.  I would sell the farm for Ekman-Larsson.

Well there is a lot of good stuff here, to the point I'm not sure what we are debating other than I don't think there are poor teams in this league (other than perhaps Arizona but are they a bad roster (no imo)or a bad team down to Tippett and the GM? - looks more probable imo)

 

I also don't agree that our forward group is deep - our 1st is becoming a 2nd and if Bo's line falters we tend to struggle. My definition on "deep" also includes who we have ready down in Utica. Also what is the point of depth without overall talent in that depth?

 

I think on these points we won't agree so I'm happy to leave it there. A good debate.

[WeneedLumme]

5 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Knowing Stecher as we do, he probably said he was good to go. A lot of players would rather play than risk losing their place - it doesn't always work out.

Yeah, wasn't puking a normal part of his workout last summer? Stecher seems to be so motivated that about the only way you can keep him out of the lineup would be to tie him down.

[CaptainLinden16]

On 1/19/2017 at 7:38 AM, stawns said:

No, no it isn't.

So it's not this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_zone_trap

 

???

 

what is it then?  Do you set bear traps on the ice?

[stawns]

22 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

So it's not this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_zone_trap

 

???

 

what is it then?  Do you set bear traps on the ice?

Did you just Wikipedia as a source for hockey systems?

 

The trap is a set play used to funnel the play to a specific area of the ice, traditionally along the left wing boards in the nzone, hence the "left wing lock" moniker.  As a team comes out of their zone, the forechechers force the team to come out of their own end along the boards and into the "trap".  Once the puck carrier has nowhere else to go, the dman and forecheckers spring the trap by converging on the puck carrier forcing a turnover.  Its a specific, set play.

 

Clogging up the neutral zone is a defensive system......1-3-1, 1-4.......however you want to configure it.