Matt_T83

Should the Canucks ask Subban to switch to the wing immediately??

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Subban might need to be traded a couple of times, before he accepts a change.

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I think that's a discussion we could have after the Canucks management and Willie actually give him a fair shake in the NHL but not before then. If Subban could replicate his AHL point totals and game into the NHL, I'd be more then happy with that. But I certainly wouldn't be the guy to tell him he needs to play a different position before I gave him the chance to show me what he could do. 

Jim.. Willie... I hope you read this

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Yea, that might be the case I guess. And it's kind of silly, since right now is the absolute best time for him to change. He's still young, the summer is coming up. Within a year he could be an NHL caliber winger. If he waits another 5-6 years and multiple trades to change, it may be too late :S.

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1 minute ago, Sygvard said:

There was a good section on this posted on CA the other day. Subban may stand out as the perfect player to switch to a forward, as he is so offensively gifted. But to say that is largely to misunderstand how he generates offence, and what his strengths are. 

 

Subban generates almost all of his offence from far out. He is at his best in a 1-3-1 structure, walking the blue line and picking shots from that high up safe zone. The deeper he goes into the zone, the more you start to see him get out worked on the boards. He has a low of value quarterbacking from a position where he can see the entire play in front of him.

 

A move to winger would almost certainly limit his offence heavily, not highlight it. 

 

I'm not so sure that's true. He generates his offense from far out because that's how they have him playing. If you watch his Junior days, he had some Bobby Orr like rushes up the wing to score goals. They have him not doing that in Utica because they want him to be more defensively sound.

 

Trust me, he will score goals from wherever you play him. With his speed and shot, his rush up the wing from a breakout pass would be NASTY. He would literally force teams to back up more and be ready to defend him when he's on the ice.

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What are the key things to make a move like that successful? He doesn't have the size other guys like Buff have so it can't be that route. He seems to have a decent shot... but does he have anything else to make this work?  

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Just now, S'all Good Man said:

What are the key things to make a move like that successful? He doesn't have the size other guys like Buff have so it can't be that route. He seems to have a decent shot... but does he have anything else to make this work?  

Speed. If you watch some Junior clips of him, he is really good at exploding up the wing, and he can score goals off those rushes. He would give whatever line he is on that breakout threat, forcing defenders back. This opens up the neutral zone and makes zone entry easier, allowing his line to better enter the offensive zone with control.

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12 minutes ago, Matt_T83 said:

There was a recent forum post by Hortankin about how the future is brighter than a lot of people see, which I agree with now. Especially with the emergence of Troy Stetcher and Nikita Tryamkin on defense, we look set for years to come. I'm not sure if Alex Edler will re-sign with us or not (I hope does), but even without him we have: Tanev, Tryamkin, Hutton, Stetcher, Gudbranson, and Juolevi coming up. All of those guys will be in the NHL and heading towards/at their primes in 3-4 years. I just don't see room for Subban to earn a regular spot in that group.

 

But it's clear the kid has some serious skills and scoring touch. I honestly see him as a player much like Johnny Gaudreau. It doesn't make sense trying to improve his play at defense when the fundamental problem is size, which he can't change.

 

I would argue he could make the Canucks as a 3rd line winger within 2 years, maybe even next season. And he would be an extremely versatile forward. Unlike most young wingers, he would probably start off defensively sound. And he has tons of powerplay experience -- he could immediately step in and quarterback the 2nd PP unit from the blue line. 

 

To me I just see him as so much more valuable being a 3rd line winger, rather than a 4th pairing depth defenseman. 

 

 

Yes, we have less depth at wing and we need to improve there but we need some size there too.  Sure, a few small skilled forwards like Kane or Gaudreau can be very effective but not a whole team of them.  We are already fairly soft and small up front. 

 

No disrespect to Subban, but right now he is a tweener (very good in the AHL but not quite NHL ready).  That happens a lot in pro sports (every team has a few players like that).  That doesn't mean that management has to automatically find a spot for him on the big team.  He has to earn a ticket to the big show by showing us that we would be stupid to leave him off the team (right now he is playing well but not well enough to earn a spot on our deep defense corps - maybe he has potential as a winger but the NHL is not the place to test that out).  GCG!

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21 minutes ago, Matt_T83 said:

Speed. If you watch some Junior clips of him, he is really good at exploding up the wing, and he can score goals off those rushes. He would give whatever line he is on that breakout threat, forcing defenders back. This opens up the neutral zone and makes zone entry easier, allowing his line to better enter the offensive zone with control.

But if he is capable of that, has anyone ever seen him do that in the AHL? Has he ever jumped up that way? I don't put a lot of stock in junior stats for the majority of players (i.e. those still pining over Dane Fox).  

 

I don't watch any Utica games so I'm really asking. If he does possess that skill set it would be intriguing to see it in Utica 1st. 

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54 minutes ago, Sygvard said:

There was a good section on this posted on CA the other day. Subban may stand out as the perfect player to switch to a forward, as he is so offensively gifted. But to say that is largely to misunderstand how he generates offence, and what his strengths are. 

 

Subban generates almost all of his offence from far out. He is at his best in a 1-3-1 structure, walking the blue line and picking shots from that high up safe zone. The deeper he goes into the zone, the more you start to see him get out worked on the boards. He has a low of value quarterbacking from a position where he can see the entire play in front of him.

 

A move to winger would almost certainly limit his offence heavily, not highlight it. 

He can hybrid, be the point on the PP and play forward or 7/8 d man depending on the team needs and his improvement. 

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Who cares?  It's not like he is going to make the NHL anyway. 

Might as well have an offensive dman in Utica for a couple years.  

 

Did this really need its own thread?

this exact conversation has been going on in the subban thread for a year. 

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Seems like the perfect guy to trade for a speedy winger "project", being a defensive project himself.

Why bother to try and change his position? He's getting better defensively but if there's no future for him in Vancouver I'm sure JB could get good value in a project swap like the Granny / Shink or Jensen / Etem trades.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Seems like the perfect guy to trade for a speedy winger "project", being a defensive project himself.

Why bother to try and change his position? He's getting better defensively but if there's no future for him in Vancouver I'm sure JB could get good value in a project swap like the Granny / Shink or Jensen / Etem trades.

 

 

 

We're still going to need a 7/8, 'spare' offensive D in a couple years. And if the stars align and he actually learns how to play passable D in his own end and against men, he could actually be a better player than Stetcher in a few years as he has a higher offensive ceiling.

 

That's a big if though.

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25 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

We're still going to need a 7/8, 'spare' offensive D in a couple years. And if the stars align and he actually learns how to play passable D in his own end and against men, he could actually be a better player than Stetcher in a few years as he has a higher offensive ceiling.

 

That's a big if though.

Yah but we have  that coming potentially anyway with other guys still in junior. If Jim could move him I'd be fine with that. I just don't see where he's going to fit in, certainly not ahead of OJ. 

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27 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

big 

Ya

Real big

 

We'll have other guys come along in that timeframe too. My opinion on the OP is just that I'd rather trade Big Subbs for a winger, than try and turn him into one.

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4 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Yah but we have  that coming potentially anyway with other guys still in junior. If Jim could move him I'd be fine with that. I just don't see where he's going to fit in, certainly not ahead of OJ. 

 

1 minute ago, luckylager said:

Ya

Real big

 

We'll have other guys come along in that timeframe too. My opinion on the OP is just that I'd rather trade Big Subbs for a winger, than try and turn him into one.

Yup, he's certainly a lottery ticket in that regard. He may only ever be a good offensive, AHL D.

 

Wait. Who exactly do we have in Junior to slot in as a 7/8, offensive D in a couple years...?

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6 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Yup, he's certainly a lottery ticket in that regard. He may only ever be a good offensive, AHL D.

 

Wait. Who exactly do we have in Junior to slot in as a 7/8, offensive D in a couple years...?

In junior there's Brisebois, he did get the invite at least to the team Canada tryouts. Or Olson. But didn't mean to imply "offensive" just ready for 7/8  duties. 

Edited by S'all Good Man

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