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Matt_T83

The value of cap space in rebuilding (and a Canucks mistake)

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15 hours ago, Toews said:

 

Young player that fits in with the age group of your core >>>> Eriksson.

You have no idea what young player could potentially have been acquired via cap dump instead of signing Eriksson, and equally no idea whether they'd ever translate into a solid NHLer.

Pure fantasy assumption on your part.    Youth culture mentality that the young asset always and necessarily  has more value.  

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13 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You have no idea what young player could potentially have been acquired via cap dump instead of signing Eriksson, and equally no idea whether they'd ever translate into a solid NHLer.

Pure fantasy assumption on your part.    Youth culture mentality that the young asset always and necessarily  has more value.  

Anything is better than signing Eriksson. The picks/prospects received from a cap dump trade could all bust and it would still be worth pursuing than Eriksson. The price for most cap dumps with one year left seems to be a 2nd and a prospect. It would give your amateur scouts a chance at selecting a good player and your pro scouts a chance at select a close to NHL ready player with upside. Seems better than signing a 30 year old forward to a 6 year contract on a rebuilding team.

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1 hour ago, oldnews said:

Derp.  I've pointed out repeatedly that deal was the 20th and 53rd for the 16th and eating Datsyuk's contract.   Everyone knows it was a trade up for Chychrun.

You really have no idea who will be better in 5 years.  It could be the usual - that Detroit knows how to draft - that they had no intention of taking Chychrun, who'd fallen on a lot of teams charts evidently - and Cholowski may be the better defenseman in 5 years.  Or a handful of teams may have been wrong, and Chychrun will prove that he should have gone earlier.  We don't really know whether Hronek in the end becomes the best asset in that deal - he's a ppg defenseman and 2nd leading scorer on his team.

 

Speculating about future trajectories doesn't change the value of the picks and cap exchanged.  

 

Detroit got the 20th, 53rd and 7.5 million in cap space.

The analytics empire got the 16th.

People can rationalize that deal all they want, but Holland got a get out of jail free card there.

Derp you can say you pointed it up but the fact that you keep calling it the 16th overall pick shows that you don't.  Chychrun was the player available.  Chychrun was the player Arizona wanted to get.  Arizona obviously felt Chychrun was going to be better than the players available at 20th and 53rd overall.  Yotes obviously felt the drop off from Chychrun to the rest of the players was significant enough that he was worth the price to upgrade.  Arizona had there eyes on a specific player and they paid the price to get him.

 

 

Could the yotes have gotten more or paid less, sure but it's so minuscule that in the end it didn't matter to the yotes.  Why risk loosing out on the player you want over such little value.  

Could Canucks have gotten more for Cory Schneider? sure but we got the player we had our eyes on so why cry about it. 

 

"It's something we've talked about for a long time," Coyotes general manager John Chayka told the newspaper. "There were few teams that can take that contract on. I talked to Kenny at length about it, and when Chychrun started to fall, we started to make calls to see what we can do.

"I thought Kenny was going to keep the pick. I thought that was a good leverage point to utilize. We made the call on the floor and I got the player I wanted and Kenny got the space he needed."

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Derp you can say you pointed it up but the fact that you keep calling it the 16th overall pick shows that you don't.  Chychrun was the player available.  Chychrun was the player Arizona wanted to get.  Arizona obviously felt Chychrun was going to be better than the players available at 20th and 53rd overall.  Yotes obviously felt the drop off from Chychrun to the rest of the players was significant enough that he was worth the price to upgrade.  Arizona had there eyes on a specific player and they paid the price to get him.

 

 

Could the yotes have gotten more or paid less, sure but it's so minuscule that in the end it didn't matter to the yotes.  Why risk loosing out on the player you want over such little value.  

Could Canucks have gotten more for Cory Schneider? sure but we got the player we had our eyes on so why cry about it. 

 

"It's something we've talked about for a long time," Coyotes general manager John Chayka told the newspaper. "There were few teams that can take that contract on. I talked to Kenny at length about it, and when Chychrun started to fall, we started to make calls to see what we can do.

"I thought Kenny was going to keep the pick. I thought that was a good leverage point to utilize. We made the call on the floor and I got the player I wanted and Kenny got the space he needed."

 

 

Oh, they wanted Chychrun.  Thanks for that.

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3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Oh, they wanted Chychrun.  Thanks for that.

Yeah.....no problem, sometimes trying to justify a value to need/want isn't an easy thing to do.

Glad I could help you out

 

 

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24 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yeah.....no problem, sometimes trying to justify a value to need/want isn't an easy thing to do.

Glad I could help you out

 

 

Your appetite for tedium is top shelf.  Always appreciated.

Edited by oldnews

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19 hours ago, Toews said:

I was thinking of bringing Juice back. He has a NMC and his performance has declined significantly. He is no longer worth the 4.5M or so he is being paid. Anaheim is quite likely planning on buying him out. He agrees to waive his NMC for the expansion draft and the Canucks get back some assets like a 2nd and Brandon Montour. KB could be the #7 or he just joins the team in a coaching/mentorship role. Seems like an ideal situation.

I don't think you can opt to waive an nmc for the Expansion Draft.  If you have an nmc you are exempt no matter what. 

 

I think so anyway, I could be wrong.

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15 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

I don't think you can opt to waive an nmc for the Expansion Draft.  If you have an nmc you are exempt no matter what. 

 

I think so anyway, I could be wrong.

Not exempt but automatically protected - they use up a protection spot unless they agree to waive.

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1 minute ago, mll said:

Not exempt but automatically protected - they use up a protection spot unless they agree to waive.

So technically, both Twins (if they say so) could be exposed?  Maybe Vegas could select one, and we trade them the other?  That's two pretty good guys to start your franchise with.

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35 minutes ago, Alflives said:

So technically, both Twins (if they say so) could be exposed?  Maybe Vegas could select one, and we trade them the other?  That's two pretty good guys to start your franchise with.

The Sedins COULD agree to waive their NMC for expansion draft.  But why WOULD they? 

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10 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

There's this. There's also the fact we have $10m coming off the books this season and $20m the season following.

 

Yes some guys are due raises out of that space but we're still going to have loads and LOADS of cap space open up the next couple years @Matt_T83.

 

We're still in the begining, moving to middle of the rebuild...every one's in such a hurry. Why don't we have more  elite prospect forwards? Why don't we have cap space etc, etc. Perhaps because the teams people are comparing them to have either already been rebuilding for 5+ years or are cap basement teams...

I did not mention that in post, because the cap relief next year is a bit non-existant. We will go down to $55M cap next year, but we also have a lot of players coming up to UFA/RFA status. We'll likely end up with maybe 5-6M cap space extra, max, after re-sigining everyone we can.

 

But definitely after 2017-2018 when the Sedin contracts end, we will have more cap space. 

 

However, the Canucks could easily have almost 10M more cap space than we do now if we hadn't re-signed Dorsett and hadn't signed Eriksson. Those two contracts right there hurt a lot. That's 8.5M in cap space that we are stuck with for a long time. Idiocy.

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2 minutes ago, Matt_T83 said:

I did not mention that in post, because the cap relief next year is a bit non-existant. We will go down to $55M cap next year, but we also have a lot of players coming up to UFA/RFA status. We'll likely end up with maybe 5-6M cap space extra, max, after re-sigining everyone we can.

 

But definitely after 2017-2018 when the Sedin contracts end, we will have more cap space. 

 

However, the Canucks could easily have almost 10M more cap space than we do now if we hadn't re-signed Dorsett and hadn't signed Eriksson. Those two contracts right there hurt a lot. That's 8.5M in cap space that we are stuck with for a long time. Idiocy.

:bored:

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23 hours ago, Matt_T83 said:

Just to add an example of a good team/player to target: I would be targeting the Pittsburgh Penguins and Marc-Andre Fleury towards the trade deadline, if I were a rebuilding team with cap space.

 

Matt Murray just backstopped them to a Stanley Cup, so he's clearly clutch. He's got a decent .922 Sv% this year, and has played 29 games. In contrast, Fleury has only started 28 games, likely being given every chance to prove himself, but has only mustered a .906 Sv% and an ugly 3.15GAA. Fleury is signed until 2018-2019 at an AAV of 5.75M. The penguins would almost certainly like to clear that cap space, and it's not likely they will get much value for an over the hill, overpaid goaltender.

 

A trading partner that could eat Fleury's contract and offer them a value player (like Jannik Hansen) could definitely get some picks/prospects out of the Penguins. This is a team that definitely has another cup run in them, maybe 2-3 more. They want to win now, and would be willing to pay for it if the price is fair. Unfortunately the Canucks are not in a position to take advantage of such a situation.

Great example. We can carry three goalies, right?

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