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Please be SELLERS at the deadline


garthsbutcher

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The clock is ticking and I'm not hearing tick, tick, tick- I'm hearing chirp, chirp, chirp.  It's 5 days from TDL and still no solid rumor or any news from Canucks.  I hope it won't be a repeat of last year's TDL.

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Burrows is going to most likely get  2 goals this last stretch of the season.   Hansen maybe  4 goals max.

Miller is probably going to win 10 games...

 

I think our team can survive these huge contributions......  

 

Life goes on when you are a club with next to no elite offensive talent on your club or on your AHL team...

 

The time to rebuild is now.  If Benning is not up to the task , then he needs to go now and bring in an actual NHL GM with real experience at the job.

If FA can't work with experienced managers, then our club is doomed. 

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5 hours ago, Creepy Crawler said:

The clock is ticking and I'm not hearing tick, tick, tick- I'm hearing chirp, chirp, chirp.  It's 5 days from TDL and still no solid rumor or any news from Canucks.  I hope it won't be a repeat of last year's TDL.

Even if Benning is willing to move guys, the simple reality is do other teams in the NHL want them? I'm sure if you offered 5th and 6th round picks you'd move Burrows, Hansen, and Miller. But that's not exactly going to help the team moving forward. 

 

Expecting 3 first rounders for them is unlikely. Basically Burrows and Hansen are probably two of the more consistent forwards the team has. It's probably not the best year to tank. Because who takes their spots? Boucher? Gaunce?

Besides if nothing happens honestly, so what? 

 

Burrows- undrafted ( don't lose anything)

Hansen- 9th round pick ( They don't even have 9th round picks anymore)

Miller- Signed as a UFA. 

 

Both Miller and Burrows can be re-signed for a reasonable cap hit, and they are still productive. The only real issue is the team has to figure out between Hansen/Granlund/Baer who to protect in expansion. Asset management at any cost only works when there's buyers willing to pay a decent price. 

 

Personally I'd rather move Edler, but I'm expecting no big moves. Remember Lack and Bieksa were moved in the draft for a 2nd, 3rd and 7th. So Benning does make moves, just not when some fans want him to. 

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4 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Even if Benning is willing to move guys, the simple reality is do other teams in the NHL want them? I'm sure if you offered 5th and 6th round picks you'd move Burrows, Hansen, and Miller. But that's not exactly going to help the team moving forward. 

 

Expecting 3 first rounders for them is unlikely. Basically Burrows and Hansen are probably two of the more consistent forwards the team has. It's probably not the best year to tank. Because who takes their spots? Boucher? Gaunce?

Besides if nothing happens honestly, so what? 

 

Burrows- undrafted ( don't lose anything)

Hansen- 9th round pick ( They don't even have 9th round picks anymore)

Miller- Signed as a UFA. 

 

Both Miller and Burrows can be re-signed for a reasonable cap hit, and they are still productive. The only real issue is the team has to figure out between Hansen/Granlund/Baer who to protect in expansion. Asset management at any cost only works when there's buyers willing to pay a decent price. 

 

Personally I'd rather move Edler, but I'm expecting no big moves. Remember Lack and Bieksa were moved in the draft for a 2nd, 3rd and 7th. So Benning does make moves, just not when some fans want him to. 

Wait till JB trades Hansen for a 4th Burrow for a 6th and Miller for a 6th... this forum will explode with complaint about JB's lack of trading ability...

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4 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Even if Benning is willing to move guys, the simple reality is do other teams in the NHL want them? I'm sure if you offered 5th and 6th round picks you'd move Burrows, Hansen, and Miller. But that's not exactly going to help the team moving forward. 

 

Expecting 3 first rounders for them is unlikely. Basically Burrows and Hansen are probably two of the more consistent forwards the team has. It's probably not the best year to tank. Because who takes their spots? Boucher? Gaunce?

Besides if nothing happens honestly, so what? 

 

Burrows- undrafted ( don't lose anything)

Hansen- 9th round pick ( They don't even have 9th round picks anymore)

Miller- Signed as a UFA. 

 

Both Miller and Burrows can be re-signed for a reasonable cap hit, and they are still productive. The only real issue is the team has to figure out between Hansen/Granlund/Baer who to protect in expansion. Asset management at any cost only works when there's buyers willing to pay a decent price. 

 

Personally I'd rather move Edler, but I'm expecting no big moves. Remember Lack and Bieksa were moved in the draft for a 2nd, 3rd and 7th. So Benning does make moves, just not when some fans want him to. 

Burrows is the easiest move if we are willing to retain. He's a playoff type player and could add depth to any contender.  The market will really hinder the return as he's not the only vet UFA available.  If teams like ARZ and COL are willing to retain cap on Iggy and Doan then it pushes Burr down on the Supply list.  His value could be as high as a 2nd or as low as a 4th. 

 

I know a lot of reports are saying Hansen is tougher due to expansion draft.  But I don't buy it.  Teams will just treat him as a rental, Hansen as a rental is still valuable.  A bidding war could net him a late first, but a 2nd + 3rd are closer, similar to what flames got for Glencross.

 

Miller is the toughest, not because of his cap (which we could retain) but because of the demand in the market for a goalie. Any team that might be insterested in him is a playoff contending team, contending teams don't need #1 goalies, so for him to get moved it would be to have a reliable back up.  If the 5 teams on his list aren't interest there's really not much JB can do.  I'm thinking at most he's worth a 3rd + back up goalie.  If we retain cap he might get a bit more.

 

Even though these aren't 1st round picks, they are still assets and they more than we will get if the UFA's walk away for nothing.  Last year we only had 6 draft picks,  Going into year we were hoping to get a return on our UFA's Higgins, Hamhuis, and Vbrata (not all was the GMs' fault) but we ended up getting nothing.  That can't happen two years in row (especially considering this year we currently only have 5 draft picks), 

 

It's not acceptable for a rebuilding team to have 11 total picks in two years along with bottom placed finished.  Carolina had 10 picks in this year alone (6 in the first 3 rounds).  Last year they had 9 picks.  That's a lot of extra players they get to add into their prospect pool, and having those extra picks allowed them to move 2 of them to get Teravainen.

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3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Burrows is the easiest move if we are willing to retain. He's a playoff type player and could add depth to any contender.  The market will really hinder the return as he's not the only vet UFA available.  If teams like ARZ and COL are willing to retain cap on Iggy and Doan then it pushes Burr down on the Supply list.  His value could be as high as a 2nd or as low as a 4th. 

 

I know a lot of reports are saying Hansen is tougher due to expansion draft.  But I don't buy it.  Teams will just treat him as a rental, Hansen as a rental is still valuable.  A bidding war could net him a late first, but a 2nd + 3rd are closer, similar to what flames got for Glencross.

 

Miller is the toughest, not because of his cap (which we could retain) but because of the demand in the market for a goalie. Any team that might be insterested in him is a playoff contending team, contending teams don't need #1 goalies, so for him to get moved it would be to have a reliable back up.  If the 5 teams on his list aren't interest there's really not much JB can do.  I'm thinking at most he's worth a 3rd + back up goalie.  If we retain cap he might get a bit more.

 

Even though these aren't 1st round picks, they are still assets and they more than we will get if the UFA's walk away for nothing.  Last year we only had 6 draft picks,  Going into year we were hoping to get a return on our UFA's Higgins, Hamhuis, and Vbrata (not all was the GMs' fault) but we ended up getting nothing.  That can't happen two years in row (especially considering this year we currently only have 5 draft picks), 

 

It's not acceptable for a rebuilding team to have 11 total picks in two years along with bottom placed finished.  Carolina had 10 picks in this year alone (6 in the first 3 rounds).  Last year they had 9 picks.  That's a lot of extra players they get to add into their prospect pool, and having those extra picks allowed them to move 2 of them to get Teravainen.

This exactly is the point.  Moving picks (especially those seconds and thirds) for fringe NHLers was a bad move for a rebuilding team.  God, the Hawks have more picks than us!  No wonder they continue to be great, and we are crap with a dismal future:(

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

This exactly is the point.  Moving picks (especially those seconds and thirds) for fringe NHLers was a bad move for a rebuilding team.  God, the Hawks have more picks than us!  No wonder they continue to be great, and we are crap with a dismal future:(

Since JB took over, we’ve moved out 11 picks, he’s brought in 8 picks, a net negative of (-3).  What do we have to show for it, our team hasn’t improved in the short term and in the long term Baertschi and Gudbranson are really the only future core pieces.  Vey, Larssen, Pedan, Prust, Etem have all made zero impact on this team, not in the now or in the future. 

 

Meanwhile in that same time frame Carolina has moved out only 5 picks while bringing in 10, for a net positive (5).  The picks they moved out, brought in Eddie Lack, Joakim Nordstrom and Teravainen (pretty solid future help)…

 

By moving out an expiring vets at the trade deadline they picked up McKeown, Saarela, Zykov and 8 picks (1st, 2x 2nd, 2x 3rd and a 3x 5th round picks). 

 

Now imagine what the canucks would look like with that type of young talent and what JB could do with that amount of extra picks,  Carolina’s drafting hasn’t been that bad, Aho is easily the best pick outside of the 1st round in 2015 (although you could make an argument for carlo). But I think JB is one of the best drafting GM's in the league.  Imagine what are current prospect pool looks like, and now double it, that's how important picks are.

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14 hours ago, Creepy Crawler said:

The clock is ticking and I'm not hearing tick, tick, tick- I'm hearing chirp, chirp, chirp.  It's 5 days from TDL and still no solid rumor or any news from Canucks.  I hope it won't be a repeat of last year's TDL.

The TDL itself has become an overhyped non-event (its certainly not worth getting up early to watch on TV)...There hasn't been a major trade made in the NHL this entire season,so.I'm keeping my expectations low.

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On 2017-02-23 at 8:54 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

It's not about could, you don't have to wait and see because Guadette TODAY has more value than 20 games of meaningless hockey.

 

Ask your self, if you are JB today, would you trade Gaudette at TD for 20 games of Diaz?  

At this trade deadlin,e no. Diaz is not an NHL player anymore and the Canucks are not going to make the playoffs anyways. That was an easy question. The real question is: was that a good move at the time. You can't tell me that you know the answer. We gave away 20 or so games by an NHL player for what is still unknown. Sure we could trade Gaudette now, but what would we get. Jurco who is closer than Gaudette to the NHL got a thrid pick. Let's see Gaudette in the AHL before we can have a real idea of this guy's true potential. Today, maybe we get a fourth pick for him. I would guess that is about his value today. You will not convince me that all sales of impending UFAs are good trades. Some are and some are not. You still neeed an NHL team to end the season or you risk starting a nasty downward spiral.

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47 minutes ago, coastal1 said:

At this trade deadlin,e no. Diaz is not an NHL player anymore and the Canucks are not going to make the playoffs anyways. That was an easy question. The real question is: was that a good move at the time. You can't tell me that you know the answer. We gave away 20 or so games by an NHL player for what is still unknown. Sure we could trade Gaudette now, but what would we get. Jurco who is closer than Gaudette to the NHL got a thrid pick. Let's see Gaudette in the AHL before we can have a real idea of this guy's true potential. Today, maybe we get a fourth pick for him. I would guess that is about his value today. You will not convince me that all sales of impending UFAs are good trades. Some are and some are not. You still neeed an NHL team to end the season or you risk starting a nasty downward spiral.

Canucks were in the same position in 2014 that they are now. We knew we weren't making the playoffs.  

 

If if you seriously think all guadette is worth is a 4th you need to do some more research on guadette. You can't compare a player that's been in the NHL for 4 seasons to a player who's in his 2nd year of NCAA. One player is on the up swing and the other player has basically shown he is what he is at the Nhl with some possible small upside. 

 

But I'll give you the benifit of the doubt. Maybe be I need a second opinion. @J.R.   two questions for you. 

 

  1. If we were to trade guadette today. Would all we get is a 4th round value in return?
  2. and is it too early to determine canucks made the right decision trading Diaz in 2014 for a 5 round pick, the pick that turned into guadette? 20 games of meaningless hockey from Diaz vs a A-/B+ prospect in the system. 

 

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12 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Canucks were in the same position in 2014 that they are now. We knew we weren't making the playoffs.  

 

If if you seriously think all guadette is worth is a 4th you need to do some more research on guadette. You can compare a player that's been in the NHL for 4 seasons to a player who's in his 2nd year of NCAA. One player is on the up swing and the other player has basically shown he is what he is at the Nhl with some possible upside. 

 

But I'll give you the benifit of the dount. Maybe be I need a second opinion. @J.R.   two questions for you. 

 

If we were to trade guadette today. Would all we get is a 4th round pick value I return?

 

 

and is it too early to determine canucks made the right decision trading Diaz in 2014 for a 5 round pick, the pick that turned into guadette? 20 games of meaningless hockey from Diaz vs a A-/B+ prospect in the system. 

 

Not sure how I got roped in to this but no, I sure as hell wouldn't trade Gaudette for a 4th. I likely wouldn't trade Gaudette at all in fact. Not unless it was for a serious upgrade. 

 

Something like one of our vet fowards or extra D packaged with Gaudette for a legit, +/- 22 year old, top 3/6 forward or something along those lines. 

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Just now, J.R. said:

Not sure how I got roped in to this but no, I sure as hell wouldn't trade Gaudette for a 4th. I likely wouldn't trade Gaudette at all in fact. Not unless it was for a serious upgrade. 

 

Something like one of our vet fowards or  extra D packaged with Gaudette for a legit, +/- 22 year old, top 3/6 forward or something along those lines. 

Ha, it may sound crazy but when it comes to hockey I actually think you're one of the better posters on here, "typically" you have pretty well thought out, logical responses.

 

And it's settled....  We can determine canucks made the right move trading Diaz for Gaudette

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On 2017-02-24 at 9:21 AM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Since JB took over, we’ve moved out 11 picks, he’s brought in 8 picks, a net negative of (-3).  What do we have to show for it, our team hasn’t improved in the short term and in the long term Baertschi and Gudbranson are really the only future core pieces.  Vey, Larssen, Pedan, Prust, Etem have all made zero impact on this team, not in the now or in the future. 

 

Meanwhile in that same time frame Carolina has moved out only 5 picks while bringing in 10, for a net positive (5).  The picks they moved out, brought in Eddie Lack, Joakim Nordstrom and Teravainen (pretty solid future help)…

 

By moving out an expiring vets at the trade deadline they picked up McKeown, Saarela, Zykov and 8 picks (1st, 2x 2nd, 2x 3rd and a 3x 5th round picks). 

 

Now imagine what the canucks would look like with that type of young talent and what JB could do with that amount of extra picks,  Carolina’s drafting hasn’t been that bad, Aho is easily the best pick outside of the 1st round in 2015 (although you could make an argument for carlo). But I think JB is one of the best drafting GM's in the league.  Imagine what are current prospect pool looks like, and now double it, that's how important picks are.

Carolina will be a force again long before we arrive if we do at all?

the team went down the wrong track since 2012 season.

one cannot help but envy what Carolina has quietly done over this time frame.

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23 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Canucks were in the same position in 2014 that they are now. We knew we weren't making the playoffs.  

 

If if you seriously think all guadette is worth is a 4th you need to do some more research on guadette. You can't compare a player that's been in the NHL for 4 seasons to a player who's in his 2nd year of NCAA. One player is on the up swing and the other player has basically shown he is what he is at the Nhl with some possible small upside. 

 

But I'll give you the benifit of the doubt. Maybe be I need a second opinion. @J.R.   two questions for you. 

 

  1. If we were to trade guadette today. Would all we get is a 4th round value in return?
  2. and is it too early to determine canucks made the right decision trading Diaz in 2014 for a 5 round pick, the pick that turned into guadette? 20 games of meaningless hockey from Diaz vs a A-/B+ prospect in the system. 

 

You keep going in circles and asking the same question. Diaz is a prospect. Every team needs prospects, of course. Now if you pick one specific prospect and you ask if his acquisition was worth it. Whatever the cost, I am saying you can't say for sure until years down the road when you see if he ever even plays one game for the Canucks. Gaudette is very far from the NHL. He plays in the lower levels of division 1 NCAA which is way below the AHL. He could become an NHL payer but the odds are that he will never play a game for the Canucks or at most a number og games that you can count with your fingers.That is the most likely outcome for him. But yes he could surprise. What would he get us in a trade now? He was a fifth rounder, semed to have progressed a bit so yes i would say maybe a 4th round pick. That is my best guest. And my advice to you: don't have too much hope for this guy or you will likely be very disapointed.

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5 minutes ago, bluesman60 said:

If we don't trade Miller, do we stand to lose one of Markstrom or Miller in the expansion draft ?

 

From my understanding of it. Miller is UFA so shouldn't be even in the expansion draft. Or Vegas wouldn't claim him bc he needs to be re-signed

 

Nucks can just re-sign him in the offseason

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On 2/24/2017 at 8:14 AM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

It's not acceptable for a rebuilding team to have 11 total picks in two years along with bottom placed finished.  

...along with the club's payroll - which isn't that far off the cap ceiling.  Yeah, it ain't my money; but you'd think Aquaman would wonder..."wtf am I paying for exactly?"

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