orcasgonewild Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 So I was a little curious why virtanen wasn't producing offensively. Every player has a chance to play offensively if paired with some talent around them. Only elite players can produce with scrubs around them. So I looked at virtanens linemates and they aren't point producers on the comets. In fact these guys have a hard time getting points. Lineups are: Kunyk cassels virtanen Why? Virtanen should be playing with gaunce. Gaunce has been putting up good numbers since he's returned and pairing him with virtanen will help virtanens offensive game. Virtanens the type of player rn that needs a good supporting cast to help his offensive production. I think green is playing him wrong and destroying our asset. Any other team would start virtanen on the 1st or 2nd line in the ahl to round out his offensive game. IMO virtanens defensive game is already solid He needs to work on offence. I was wondering what u guys think about this. Maybe u can shed more light and explain it to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 While I agree that Virtanens game by the numbers is sound defensively. Forcing him to play with basic AHL plugs forces him to actually have to work hard every. Single. Shift. It is forcing him to think, to act not just react and is FAR from screwing his development. He's right where he deserves to be, where he belongs and where he can either succeed or flame out. It's up to him, he's not getting screwed by any means but he may eventually screw himself if he cannot put it together. Which is why Benning and Linden appear to be playing to proverbial long game with him letting him sit for 2-3 seasons in the AHL ala Gaunce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I think we've identified the vcrguy alt-account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danaimo Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Jake had a full year with the big club last year and he struggled. Now he is getting plenty of ice time with Utica and every chance to develop. Every player can whine and complain about ice time, line mates, Offensive zone starts, PP time, match up assignments etc. Eventually the good players will figure it out and prove that they belong in the NHL. Jake will either fail or succeed, but whatever happens, he will have been given the opportunity. He is not ready for the NHL right now. But give him another year or two, there is not need to rush him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEGCanuck Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I say lets let the club decide the best development route for Jake to follow and check on his progress next Fall. It may not be perfect but I am no expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocksterh8 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Who is Vitanen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 The Canucks didn't screw Virtanen's development. Virtanen screwed Virtanen's development. Virtanen was on track to being a sophmore in the NHL getting third line minutes, and being a valuable role player to the team. 13 points in 55 games as a 19 year old powerforward is not bad. Virtanen has all the tools. The problem came last season, when Virtanen came into camp. He gained too much weight, thinking that he needed to be bigger to play his powerforward role, but what he didn't realize is just how much that affected his speed, and most importantly his conditioning. He could only take 30-40 second shifts at top effort. A lot of times that you see him floating out there, I think it's because he's gassed. And as I'm sure a lot of you know from playing any level of hockey. When you're really gassed, you start to think slightly slower. You read, and react to plays just a step behind and that can cost you. Especially on the NHL level. And on top of that, it ruins the flow of your team. Say you put him with Horvat, now all of a sudden, Horvat's line has to change quicker instead of being on the ice, because one guy is lagging behind. The conditioning you have to have to play an 82 game NHL season, especially as a speedy, forechecking, backchecking powerforward, is second to none. Good doesn't cut it. And Virtanen didn't even show up in good shape. If you want to be an powerforard NHLer in this league, you have to have excellent conditioning. The good thing is Jake doesn't really need to develop NHL level skills. (shot, handle, edgework, speed, physical play, etc.) He has NHL level skills pretty much across the board. (Which is exactly why he's been so frustrated.) What he needs are pro athlete skills. Things that Bo Horvat got down that allowed him to stay up. You have to eat right, work out right, practice right, condition right. Basically all the things he could get away with in Juniors because he was an athletic demon. He needs to learn how to be a mature professional athlete, and then the package will start to come. Let me tell you something. The Canucks would love nothing more than to have "a forward with speed size and grit who can score." Benning was on the hunt to trade for a player that brought that package. That hole we have right now was supposed to be Virtanens to fill. We gave him the chance, and he screwed it up. Hopefully he can get right for next season. Bounce back, and be a force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNuCkSLoUiE23 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, Warhippy said: While I agree that Virtanens game by the numbers is sound defensively. Forcing him to play with basic AHL plugs forces him to actually have to work hard every. Single. Shift. It is forcing him to think, to act not just react and is FAR from screwing his development. He's right where he deserves to be, where he belongs and where he can either succeed or flame out. It's up to him, he's not getting screwed by any means but he may eventually screw himself if he cannot put it together. Which is why Benning and Linden appear to be playing to proverbial long game with him letting him sit for 2-3 seasons in the AHL ala Gaunce Exactly. When Horvat played his first season in the NHL, he played with plugs like Kenins and Dorsett. Bo carried that line, and eventually started getting more minutes. Virtanen can't be gifted minutes because of his draft position. He needs to bust his a** game in and game out and earn a spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Not this type of thread again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Keep this in the Virtanen thread. He's gotta learn to do it himself, can't just piggy back on other players success. I'd prefer him to figure out how to be the driver on his line, than to get cushy assignments. If Green thinks it best I wouldn't mind him getting better line mates every 3rd game. Push to improve his ability to carry a line, and then play with better players to get his confidence up and more high danger scoring chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Work ethic recovery program in full swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEON.KNEE Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 so this a third thread discussing the same prospects development? This should be fun. On topic- Virtanen's development is not being hampered by management. They have done him a solid by sending himdown to Utica to find his game and learn to be a pro. Just be patient, mildly retarded OP. His time will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 54 minutes ago, orcasgonewild said: So I was a little curious why virtanen wasn't producing offensively. Every player has a chance to play offensively if paired with some talent around them. Only elite players can produce with scrubs around them. So I looked at virtanens linemates and they aren't point producers on the comets. In fact these guys have a hard time getting points. Lineups are: Kunyk cassels virtanen Why? Virtanen should be playing with gaunce. Gaunce has been putting up good numbers since he's returned and pairing him with virtanen will help virtanens offensive game. Virtanens the type of player rn that needs a good supporting cast to help his offensive production. I think green is playing him wrong and destroying our asset. Any other team would start virtanen on the 1st or 2nd line in the ahl to round out his offensive game. IMO virtanens defensive game is already solid He needs to work on offence. I was wondering what u guys think about this. Maybe u can shed more light and explain it to me Things aren't done any differently in Utica than they are in Van. Jake has to earn everything he gets. 26 minutes ago, Mr.53 said: The Canucks didn't screw Virtanen's development. Virtanen screwed Virtanen's development. Virtanen was on track to being a sophmore in the NHL getting third line minutes, and being a valuable role player to the team. 13 points in 55 games as a 19 year old powerforward is not bad. Virtanen has all the tools. The problem came last season, when Virtanen came into camp. He gained too much weight, thinking that he needed to be bigger to play his powerforward role, but what he didn't realize is just how much that affected his speed, and most importantly his conditioning. He could only take 30-40 second shifts at top effort. A lot of times that you see him floating out there, I think it's because he's gassed. And as I'm sure a lot of you know from playing any level of hockey. When you're really gassed, you start to think slightly slower. You read, and react to plays just a step behind and that can cost you. Especially on the NHL level. And on top of that, it ruins the flow of your team. Say you put him with Horvat, now all of a sudden, Horvat's line has to change quicker instead of being on the ice, because one guy is lagging behind. The conditioning you have to have to play an 82 game NHL season, especially as a speedy, forechecking, backchecking powerforward, is second to none. Good doesn't cut it. And Virtanen didn't even show up in good shape. If you want to be an powerforard NHLer in this league, you have to have excellent conditioning. The good thing is Jake doesn't really need to develop NHL level skills. (shot, handle, edgework, speed, physical play, etc.) He has NHL level skills pretty much across the board. (Which is exactly why he's been so frustrated.) What he needs are pro athlete skills. Things that Bo Horvat got down that allowed him to stay up. You have to eat right, work out right, practice right, condition right. Basically all the things he could get away with in Juniors because you were an athletic demon. He needs to learn how to be a mature professional athlete, and then the package will start to come. Let me tell you something. The Canucks would love nothing more than to have "a forward with size and grit who can score." Benning was on the hunt to trade for a player that brought that package. That hole we have right now was supposed to be Virtanens to fill. We gave him the chance, and he screwed it up. Hopefully he can get right for next season. Bounce back, and be a force. This is a really good post. There's insight here that I haven't seen on CDC before. Jake has been able to dominate physically everywhere he has played. Then when he got to the NHL, there were lots of guys his size and lots bigger too. His response was to get bigger. He went from 207 to 228 over the summer and wasn't able to play hard for more than 30 seconds at a time at that weight. Players are actually getting smaller because they have to be able to go all out for their entire shifts and all game. Virtanen has dropped 15 lbs and is starting to look more like himself. Jake is starting to play the right way and if you listen to Benning and Linden, that's all they're worried about. They know the skill is there. In the AHL he is also having to deal with guys who are big and strong. It's a men's league. He's not going to be able to dominate in the same way as he did in junior. He's going to have to learn to be effective in different ways. This is not unusual. Let him figure it out. The points will come and he will move up the food chain. If it takes a full year, if it takes 2 years, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino#29 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 tsn sucks,i get a email alert from the aHL saying ten and aHL make a deal to televise games over the rest of this season,i open it and the schedule is all marlies games with no comets.i unsubscribed from their emails and in the comments i said toronto can kiss my b.c. ass.lol.alot of people in this thread seem to know a lot about how he's developing down there and how much ice time he's getting.that line is not a top 2 line on the comets,you think they give ice time from 4th to 1st lines?i'you guys pay for aHL live?or just armchair scouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Patience comes in small measures with a lot of people, but before you hit the panic button, it's worth considering some stupid and hasty mistakes that other franchises have made in comparable situations. The most obvious for me is what the Islanders did with Nino Neiderreiter, dumping him (imo) for Cal Clutterbuck after a pair of seasons where he struggled to produce at a young age as a pwf playing largely bottom six minutes. Neiderreiter scored 2 goals and 1 assist in his first 64 NHL games, 1 goal and 0 assists in 55 games in his draft +2 season. Radek Faksa is another player that put up utterly unimpressive numbers in his +1, +2, and +3 seasons, taking four years before even producing decent numbers at the AHL level, and comparable production to Jake last year - Jake being a teenaged rookie and Faksa being a 22 year old. Have some patience folks. This team knows how to develop players - has an excellent track record with a pair of outstanding development minded coaches at both the AHL and NHL level. Virtanen will be fine - and fish bowling his short-term production won't necessarily give you a 'realistic' forecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Trade him to Florida for McCann. Jake will be an IR mainstay anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Maybe Virtanen is just not that good? I mean he could be an NHL'er but a Bottom 6 guy but that's probably his ceiling. I've already accepted that to be a possible scenario or he may turn out to be a bust especially after seeing Ehlers, Nylander, Ritchie, and Larkin all have surpassed Virtanen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Trade him to Florida for McCann. Jake will be an IR mainstay anyways. ? based on.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, iinatcc said: Maybe Virtanen is just not that good? I mean he could be an NHL'er but a Bottom 6 guy but that's probably his ceiling. I've already accepted that to be a possible scenario or he may turn out to be a bust especially after seeing Ehlers, Nylander, Ritchie, and Larkin all have surpassed Virtanen. I mean that's fair. But that discounts the fact that we have seen his raw skills. We've seen his speed, his strength, his shot power, etc. When it comes to raw skills, Virtanen has a lot of tools to work with, a lot of it from him luckily being born an athletic freak. At worst, Jake Virtanen can be a role playing third line player. Now that is pretty bad for a 6th overall pick, but that's his floor. His natural skills will take him that far. Points or not, the kid didn't just lose his speed, or forget how to hit. You know what I'm saying. He's struggling to put these tools together. The question is, can he put the package together and start elevating himself to a bonifide 2nd line player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I think it's, obvious, no? His style, and he already has a bum shoulder. Do you foresee that not being reinsured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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