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orcasgonewild

(Discussion) smartest team in the league?

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This is painful to say but there is a team That's been drafting and developing players better than every team in the nhl.

Its not the canucks, not Washington and not Pittsburg. In fact you probably couldn't guess, here I'll give u a moment to think about it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If u said the Arizona Coyotes ur a liar LOL u didn't think that. Now nothing pains me more than to say another team is better than the canucks and that of a division rival. But credit is due I mean look at their top prospects...

 

1)Dylan strome A

2) christian dvorak B+

3) Clayton keller A

4) Anthony deangelo A

5) Jakob chychrun A

6) Lawson Crouse B

7) Brendan perlini B+

8) christian Fischer B+

9) Nick merkley B+

10) connor garland B+

 

 

This is not the whole list but out of that 10 at least 9 are producing like crazy whether that be ohl or ahl.

 

I'm surprised this hasn't been reported more frequently.

 

Coyotes have a terrible team at the nhl level because most of their beauts aside from perlini Crouse and chychrun are in the ahl or ohl.

 

And what's scary is hanzel and Vrbata will be traded at the deadline for more picks and prospects.

 

This team is deep and it's gonna get deeper especially since they are 2nd last in the league and might draft nico hischier or nolan patrick.

 

 

 

The reason I bring this up is because the Coyotes have accomplished the same thing we did which was not win a cup. But the difference is they have a great prospect pool. One that can change their franchise maybe next year or in a couple years.

 

 

 

My point in this thread is not to get ppl angry.  And ik ppl are gonna quote me saying this but I'm just drawing a parallel between the two franchises. 

 

 

Canucks should be selling their veterans like the Coyotes did, if we sell Hansen Burrows Miller And Edler we'll be worse now but with what we gain we could potentially be better later. Once the Sedins leave our team all we got prospect wise is boeser Juolevi and Demko. That's not enough to save us.

 

 

All im saying is we can choose to rebuild now that we have assets to move rather than latr when we don't. 

 

But plz I'm not completely ripping our franchise. We have great young emerging d core in

 

1) stecher B+

2) Tryamkin B 

3) Gudbranson B

4) Juolevi A-

5) Hutton B-

6) subban B-

 

Its just our young forwards that concern me..

 

1) horvat B+

2) baertschi B

3) boeser A-

4) gaudette B

5) Granlund B 

6) gaunce B-

 

 

Aside from horvat and boeser we need more top line forwards. 

 

Goaltending we probably have one of the best group in the league

 

1) Marky B

2) Demko A

3) garteig B

 

 

Of course it always possible we succeed but having a deeper pool instills more confidence in the fan base 

 

A- means first line potential 

B- means second line potential

Edited by orcasgonewild
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you're right.

Arizona is certainly not a team that comes to mind when you ask who the "smartest" team is.

 

And still isn't.

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Nope. I'd say Chicago. They've had a lot of picks at the end of draft rounds for years now yet they still end up drafting some skilled players.

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2 minutes ago, BowtieCanuck said:

Nope. I'd say Chicago. They've had a lot of picks at the end of draft rounds for years now yet they still end up drafting some skilled players.

I agree there I think it's cuz they picked USHL players in the draft because they always take awhile to develop. I mean look at schmaltz and there's also Dylan sikura. Plus they drafted Alex debrincat from the Ohl. Pretty solid! They did tank a couple years tho to get Kane and toews so it's not like they'd be where they are today without them. Pittsburg top with Malkin and Crosby. Although solid drafting got the guentzel sprong and maata. 

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Just now, Fanaholic said:

Never mind developing we picked Juolevi and we could have had Matthew Tkachuk who can score.   WOW. 

 

LOL we could've had ehlers too omg 

Imagien ehlers pastrnak horvat boeser tkachuk. But it's ok I don't blame jb for the picks. He said he wanted to build from net out and he has we have good goaltending and defence. We just need forwards now. 

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If you said Arizona and not Chicago you'd be wrong

 

1 cup, way over the cap ditched everyone was questioned about repeating.  Won another cup oh damned if they didn't ditch everyone again, questioned about a repeat

 

WTF OMG won another cup and ditched EVERYONE again!!!  and...well.

 

Somehow someway managed to lose two of their best threats over 3 cup wins, lost some of their best youth and still restocked their depth still added picks and are still a threat to repeat with Darling shining in net and those cap dump losses looking like brilliant after thoughts.

 

Arizona stockpiling depth of picks who are far from turning out because they've literally sucked the hind end of the league for 10 years barring 1 WCF appearance is not smart...it's like the Isles, or Oilers or Canes or Blue Jackets (barring this year for the Oil and Jackets)

 

Suck long enough eventually the talent will click, that's not smart it's success via failure.

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Every time I watch a Penguins game or highlight package they always have this new rookie playing his first game and he seems to always score a goal.  Last night some dude named Josh Archibald, a 5'10 winger, drafted in the 6th round like 4 years ago came in and scored 2 goals in just his 2nd game.  Connor Sheary was undrafted and came out of nowhere, Jake Guentzel was a 3rd round pick.  Sprong a 2nd round pick and Kapanen looks good in Toronto.  They trade away most their picks because they are always in a contending position but yet they still are able to put together the best AHL team in the western conference again this year,

 

The Canucks will call up one of their AHL players for a cup of coffee, maybe 5 games or so then you will never hear from them again. Lain, Archibald, Kenins, Grenier, Zalewski and Jensen the most previous examples.. 

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I think you can equate NHL prospects to the aspects of a golf game.  Offensive forward prospects are the driver and defenceman/goalie prospects are the putter.  Everyone that plays golf knows that you "Drive for show, but Putt for dough!"   I think offensive prospects are generally overvalued.  Yes you need to score goals... but you also need to keep them out of your net.  Look at Edmonton for the last 10 years.  They kept drafting offensive players while ignoring the strong intangibles and defensive players.  Now look at Winnipeg this season.  They have amazing offensive prospects, but it has not translated to on ice success.  Dallas this season.  There is a ton of evidence that you need a well balanced team to have continued success in the NHL.  Yes Phoenix has some good offensive prospects, but they are a long way from being a properly built team.  Looking for the right recipe... see Chicago... strong defence, good goaltending and luck in the draft with Toews and Kane.

 

I'm very happy with Benning's team building so far.  We do have strength from the net out.  And just think that with a little luck in last seasons lottery we would have had Matthews or Laine.  Hopefully we can get the future luck required to make our team elite as Chicago got with Kane and Pittsburgh got with Crosby because I like the foundational pieces that Benning has built on the defensive side of the game.

Edited by Sedintwinpowersactivate

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Smartest team in the NHL? Chicago??? I mean they got way too many cups and the way they've rejigged their complimentary pieces around their supreme core talent was very well done.

 

I don't get this ideology of taking a dynamite and scrounging for the bottom as being the smart way to build a team.. It's likely the easiest way and probably has the most use case scenario of being successful but is it the only way?. SJS is looking pretty good after drafting some nice value players in Couture, Pavelski, and Hertl and smart trades for Burns and Jones.

 

So yeah, there's a lot of promise with the prospect pool of Arizona, but promise means nothing until it turns out.

 

46 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

If you said Arizona and not Chicago you'd be wrong

 

1 cup, way over the cap ditched everyone was questioned about repeating.  Won another cup oh damned if they didn't ditch everyone again, questioned about a repeat

 

WTF OMG won another cup and ditched EVERYONE again!!!  and...well.

 

Somehow someway managed to lose two of their best threats over 3 cup wins, lost some of their best youth and still restocked their depth still added picks and are still a threat to repeat with Darling shining in net and those cap dump losses looking like brilliant after thoughts.

 

Arizona stockpiling depth of picks who are far from turning out because they've literally sucked the hind end of the league for 10 years barring 1 WCF appearance is not smart...it's like the Isles, or Oilers or Canes or Blue Jackets (barring this year for the Oil and Jackets)

 

Suck long enough eventually the talent will click, that's not smart it's success via failure.

^ dang son how'd you steal my opinion from an hour before I had it ^_^

+1

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This is how smart that team is. Let's remember their brilliant GM is basing nearly every major move off analytics, it's clearly paying off dividends.

 

coyotes.JPG

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it takes time to build up your stock of A listed prospects.  detroit always was able to find gems in the later rounds.  the oilers got lots of high end picks and because they pushed them all into important minutes too soon, they have been trading them away.  the core of the canucks are giving their prospects more support as they mature. 

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1 hour ago, Fanaholic said:

Never mind developing we picked Juolevi and we could have had Matthew Tkachuk who can score.   WOW.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of "thank god"

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2 hours ago, orcasgonewild said:

 

Of course it always possible we succeed but having a deeper pool instills more confidence in the fan base 

 

 

 

Its an impressive list to be sure. Give Jimbo a couple of more years and you'll see a similar list. 

 

What will really impress me is how/if AZ is able to translate all of that into an actual NHL team. 

 

Just wondering on the B rating on Gaudette - he's already got 20 goals in 28 games in the NCAA. He seems to be developing as well as some of the AZ guys on your list. 

 

Edited by S'all Good Man
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Rigged deck. Different rules & standards for different teams. Sports fans HATE to hear the hobby they dedicate so much time to, might be tainted(from within). If it were true, basically makes fools of the lot of us..wouldn't it?

 

How often are billion-dollar industries run honestly - on the level? Can't really be answered..moot point.

 

So debating the "smartest team" seems an exercise in futility(OP, no offense). Akin to debating whether perhaps the Bellagio is the best run hotel in Vegas. Very appropriate that this Mafia-league would deal up that hand.

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57 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Its an impressive list to be sure. Give Jimbo a couple of more years and you'll see a similar list. 

 

What will really impress me is how/if AZ is able to translate all of that into an actual NHL team. 

 

Just wondering on the B rating on Gaudette - he's already got 20 goals in 28 games in the NCAA. He seems to be developing as well as some of the AZ guys on your list. 

 

Tbh those ratings for gaudette might be old I see him as B+. He can be second line centre cuz he's got an extra gear

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4 hours ago, orcasgonewild said:

This is painful to say but there is a team That's been drafting and developing players better than every team in the nhl.

Its not the canucks, not Washington and not Pittsburg. In fact you probably couldn't guess, here I'll give u a moment to think about it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If u said the Arizona Coyotes ur a liar LOL u didn't think that. Now nothing pains me more than to say another team is better than the canucks and that of a division rival. But credit is due I mean look at their top prospects...

 

1)Dylan strome A

2) christian dvorak B+

3) Clayton keller A

4) Anthony deangelo A

5) Jakob chychrun A

6) Lawson Crouse B

7) Brendan perlini B+

8) christian Fischer B+

9) Nick merkley B+

10) connor garland B+

 

 

This is not the whole list but out of that 10 at least 9 are producing like crazy whether that be ohl or ahl.

 

I'm surprised this hasn't been reported more frequently.

 

Coyotes have a terrible team at the nhl level because most of their beauts aside from perlini Crouse and chychrun are in the ahl or ohl.

 

And what's scary is hanzel and Vrbata will be traded at the deadline for more picks and prospects.

 

This team is deep and it's gonna get deeper especially since they are 2nd last in the league and might draft nico hischier or nolan patrick.

 

 

 

The reason I bring this up is because the Coyotes have accomplished the same thing we did which was not win a cup. But the difference is they have a great prospect pool. One that can change their franchise maybe next year or in a couple years.

 

 

 

My point in this thread is not to get ppl angry.  And ik ppl are gonna quote me saying this but I'm just drawing a parallel between the two franchises. 

 

 

Canucks should be selling their veterans like the Coyotes did, if we sell Hansen Burrows Miller And Edler we'll be worse now but with what we gain we could potentially be better later. Once the Sedins leave our team all we got prospect wise is boeser Juolevi and Demko. That's not enough to save us.

 

 

All im saying is we can choose to rebuild now that we have assets to move rather than latr when we don't. 

 

But plz I'm not completely ripping our franchise. We have great young emerging d core in

 

1) stecher B+

2) Tryamkin B 

3) Gudbranson B

4) Juolevi A-

5) Hutton B-

6) subban B-

 

Its just our young forwards that concern me..

 

1) horvat B+

2) baertschi B

3) boeser A-

4) gaudette B

5) Granlund B 

6) gaunce B-

 

 

Aside from horvat and boeser we need more top line forwards. 

 

Goaltending we probably have one of the best group in the league

 

1) Marky B

2) Demko A

3) garteig B

 

 

Of course it always possible we succeed but having a deeper pool instills more confidence in the fan base 

 

A- means first line potential 

B- means second line potential

Ya I agree with you to a certain point but lets remember that Benning just started our rebuild a few years ago and was left with nothing in the cupboard thanks to previous GM's. Arizona has been collecting picks for 3-5 years now and have been drafting well for a decade compared to the Canucks being horrible at drafting. I think if we give Benning 5-7 years of drafting the Canucks will be at the top of the prospect pool

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