Kragar Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mattrek said: I understand what you're saying, my only point is that regardless of any "identifying factor" if you're a bad person you're going to do bad things. Labels and generalizations have nothing to do with it. Honestly I think people tend to overlook the positives when it comes to Muslims and there actions. Case in point was the link I posted to the fundraiser Muslims did for the Jewish cemetery. Not one compliment or comment and yet if anything negative is posted many jump on it. I don't know if it's because people are so fearful they can't see anything else or if they purposefully ignore it. There is good everywhere in this world even in war torn countries like Syria. The real issue is our brains susceptiveness to negativity as well as the news being almost all negative. We have to actively seek out positive news so it gives an impression of their being more negativity then there actually is in reality. As I posted before the statistics for acts of terrorism is really not that high, it's such a small, small portion and an even smaller portion of that is committed by Muslims. I truly don't understand the fear when more people die in a car accident in the US in a year compared to 40 years of terrorist attacks in the entire world. Fair points. I think what scares Western people about terrorism by Muslims is that it is significantly more predominant in the Western world compared to 20+ years ago. There has been war and violence in the ME for centuries, but it is only in recent decades where terrorism by Muslim has been brought to North America. You're right, there are good things done by Muslims, just like any other people. And I believe that the majority of Muslims are just fine. FWIW. from personal experience, I have no trouble with those I work with... we get along well whether on the job or at the water-cooler. Listing good things done by Muslims won't get much interest IMO because you can do that with any broad group of people. Like with everything else in life, people are going to weigh the good with the bad. And many people find it easier to see the negative... it's risk awareness. When you see the increased unrest in Europe, that should be concerning for us here in NA, as the pressure to take refugees is rising. I don't know if that cop in Sweden was telling the truth or not, but when you hear of a group of people, who arrived either as refugees or standard immigrants, allegedly causing problems in another Western country, and those allegations are increasing, it is not unreasonable to worry about our home countries also taking refugees from the same countries those immigrants hail from. It's important to have a decent level of cultural assimilation. You are absolutely right in your last paragraph. The question to ask is (and I don't know the answer): what is the trend? We're used to car accidents as a normal risk to every-day life. We can take some measure to protect ourselves (wear seatbelts, drive responsibly, avoid bad conditions, etc.). There is a lot less we can do to protect ourselves from terrorists while still maintain our normal lives, so that lack of control can drive the fear factor upwards once more, regardless of how low the odds are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrek Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 42 minutes ago, Kragar said: Fair points. I think what scares Western people about terrorism by Muslims is that it is significantly more predominant in the Western world compared to 20+ years ago. There has been war and violence in the ME for centuries, but it is only in recent decades where terrorism by Muslim has been brought to North America. You're right, there are good things done by Muslims, just like any other people. And I believe that the majority of Muslims are just fine. FWIW. from personal experience, I have no trouble with those I work with... we get along well whether on the job or at the water-cooler. Listing good things done by Muslims won't get much interest IMO because you can do that with any broad group of people. Like with everything else in life, people are going to weigh the good with the bad. And many people find it easier to see the negative... it's risk awareness. When you see the increased unrest in Europe, that should be concerning for us here in NA, as the pressure to take refugees is rising. I don't know if that cop in Sweden was telling the truth or not, but when you hear of a group of people, who arrived either as refugees or standard immigrants, allegedly causing problems in another Western country, and those allegations are increasing, it is not unreasonable to worry about our home countries also taking refugees from the same countries those immigrants hail from. It's important to have a decent level of cultural assimilation. You are absolutely right in your last paragraph. The question to ask is (and I don't know the answer): what is the trend? We're used to car accidents as a normal risk to every-day life. We can take some measure to protect ourselves (wear seatbelts, drive responsibly, avoid bad conditions, etc.). There is a lot less we can do to protect ourselves from terrorists while still maintain our normal lives, so that lack of control can drive the fear factor upwards once more, regardless of how low the odds are. Oh I completely agree it's a fairly new phenomenon and as such with us being programmed the way we are it scares us. Humans don't like change and especially not if it's a negative change. I also think another reason people are fearful is because it's out of their control. Oh absolutely people have their inherit biases and we as a species are more receptive to negativity. I was basically just trying to show that not all muslims are bad or terrorists or whatever people fear they are. As you said the vast majority are good, kind and compassionate people. I don't like when an entire sub segment of the population is blamed for the actions of a few. I agree it's definitely something to keep an eye out for and if there are immigrants causing trouble ship those ones out. I have compassion for refugees, but if you start to cause trouble then it's your own doing and you should be kicked out. See you just said the key right there. There is a big increase in immigrants and refugees, so that increase in numbers would logically correspond with an increase in incidents, but as a percentage of the population my guess is it would stay the same. An analogy I like to us is a bar. It's like if you let 500 people inside instead of 250. Odds are there's going to be more bad people to come in, but does that mean you block everyone who wants to go in? Bars kick out those who are bad and let in the ones who are good. That is what I think countries should do regarding refugees. I just feel that blocking all people is not justifiable given the small small portion that ends up doing bad things. The vast majority get settled get a job and start paying into the economy. You are right that it's something countries should be careful about, but they already are. There's processes in place for vetting and admitting. Some bad ones get through admittedly, but that is an inevitable cost for humanitarian protection. The trend has increased, but awareness has also increased at the same time. Back in the 70s, 80s and 90s there was no internet, we weren't able to get information instantly and know what the rest of the world was doing. It's like mental illness do I believe it has increased? Maybe slightly, but it was only recently we started to focus on the problem, so most of the increase we see is due to awareness. Even if terrorist attacks increased by 200% we still wouldn't come close to the number of deaths every day accidents cause. Many die falling down the stairs. Do we ban stairs? Many die from food allergies. Do we ban food? I'm not saying be defenseless as that would be dumb, but the safeguards we have in place are good enough in my mind. There already is very strict screening processes that I don't think people are aware of. You can't just hop off a plane or walk right through. There's a long process these people go through. And let's not forget these are also people fleeing a modern day holocaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 21/02/2017 at 5:41 PM, Apricot said: Because nothing is perfect, and nothing or no one will ever be perfect. I believe in myself and I am nowhere near perfect. I believe in my fiance, and he's not perfect. I believe in the Canucks, and they're not perfect, come to think of it, they're very very very far from being in the discussion of being perfect, but I believe in them. You get my point, I hope. Where did you get that information from? I'm genuinely asking. Alright, come again for Apricot? That sentence confused me a lot. I agree, no man and anything created by man is perfect except God, the God of Israel, he's the only one who is perfect. It's funny you've never heard, but not surprising "Here are the numbers, though, in case you're interested: There were at 66.5 cases of reported rapes per 100,000 inhabitants last year, up from 24.9 in 2003. That's one heck of a jump." http://www.dailywire.com/news/13683/sweden-really-stinking-cesspool-ravaged-refugee-joseph-curl My cousin, who is a Muslim, has to teach Muslims from a Muslim region in our area what is right and what is wrong, and how to act in public. These people have been living in a Muslim region all their lives, but they don't seem to know how to be respectful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 21/02/2017 at 6:53 PM, Mattrek said: Have you read the Bible? Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. It wasn't even 30 years ago men were killed in the US for being gay and it still happens to this very day even given how far we've come. There is no pattern, there is no "exceptions to the rule" all there is is individuals. Bad people are bad people. They come in every shape, size, ethnicity, religion, gender and sexuality out there. most civilizations during that time normalizes bisexualty, like soddom and Gommorah. If you read that same text, it was the actual act of sleeping with the same sex that was a sin, you could be gay, and love a guy without having to "lie with him as with a woman" and that won't be a sin, it's between man and God because again everyone's broken in some way. Jesus Christ died for sin so a sinner who've repented doesn't have to. I definitely agree a population is composed of individuals, but it is not a reason to disregard patterns or statistics, that's why businesses doesn't produce same quantity for different sizes or colour of a product because not all of them will be brought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apricot Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, BlackBeard said: I agree, no man and anything created by man is perfect except God, the God of Israel, he's the only one who is perfect. It's funny you've never heard, but not surprising "Here are the numbers, though, in case you're interested: There were at 66.5 cases of reported rapes per 100,000 inhabitants last year, up from 24.9 in 2003. That's one heck of a jump." http://www.dailywire.com/news/13683/sweden-really-stinking-cesspool-ravaged-refugee-joseph-curl My cousin, who is a Muslim, has to teach Muslims from a Muslim region in our area what is right and what is wrong, and how to act in public. These people have been living in a Muslim region all their lives, but they don't seem to know how to be respectful Anywhere in the article state that these rapes that are happening are by Muslims, or by refugees? I didn't read the article, because like I said in my first post I wasn't going to be roped in by being given articles and being shown Youtube video's on how terrible my religion and my people are. I got roped in anyways, guess I need to work on that. Your cousin is Muslim? Little personal question here, won't mind if you don't want to answer, I'll understand. How are you two related? I'm assuming that you're not Muslim, yourself, so just wondering here how you have a cousin whose Muslim. All good if you don't want to answer that question, I'll respect it. Also. What Muslim regions are these Muslim's coming from exactly? Like I said before, I have A LOT of family from Pakistan, Dubai, Lahore, India, etc, etc and every single person, adult, teenager, child, have been pretty darn respectful to me and everyone they've ever met. Lastly. Your cousin is teaching people what is right and what is wrong, your cousin is teaching people how to act in public. Just because they're Muslim's that come from a Muslim region, you need to say that they don't know what right and what isn't? That they don't know how to respect people? People, any people, don't know the difference between what is right and what is wrong until we are taught from our parents, siblings, grandparents, teachers. Same goes for respect. We get taught by everyone around us every day on what is right and what is wrong, and how to respect everyone, even people you don't agree with. I yelled at my niece yesterday because she dropped juice on the carpet. My mom told me later that I shouldn't have yelled at her, and told me how I should've handled it. Still at 25 years old I'm learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apricot Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Edit: Double post. My bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 16 hours ago, Apricot said: These refugees from Muslim countries, Muslim culture. My cousins' mom and my mom are sisters, his dad is a Muslim. The Muslim region I mentioned the predominantly muslim regions at the south of the Philippines. Some part in this area are not very safe, as there's an muslim terrorists group. Sunni Muslims are the majority of Muslims in the PH so I would assume they are sunnis. These are people in their 20s that lived in a perdominantly Muslim region/culture. Yet they don't live up to the standard the of the society, their values are just not compatible with western society's. You're are right, your judgement of what is bad and what is right is influenced by the people around you. You're a Muslim in a secular country of course your values will differ. These people, and the refugees who were mostly from sub-Sahara Africa lived in a Muslim country/culture. Do you believe that a Muslim ought to follow everything in the Qu'ran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apricot Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 30 minutes ago, BlackBeard said: These refugees from Muslim countries, Muslim culture. My cousins' mom and my mom are sisters, his dad is a Muslim. The Muslim region I mentioned the predominantly muslim regions at the south of the Philippines. Some part in this area are not very safe, as there's an muslim terrorists group. Sunni Muslims are the majority of Muslims in the PH so I would assume they are sunnis. These are people in their 20s that lived in a perdominantly Muslim region/culture. Yet they don't live up to the standard the of the society, their values are just not compatible with western society's. You're are right, your judgement of what is bad and what is right is influenced by the people around you. You're a Muslim in a secular country of course your values will differ. These people, and the refugees who were mostly from sub-Sahara Africa lived in a Muslim country/culture. Do you believe that a Muslim ought to follow everything in the Qu'ran? Alright, I'm getting frustrated with this back and forth conversation. We can go back and forth for days talking about this. I really just wanted to say my peace in my first post and leave. This has absolutely nothing to do with you, we're actually having a solid conversation instead of attacking each other about our differences. That really doesn't happen on CDC often. It's just that I'm getting annoyed going back and forth. You have your opinions, thoughts, and beliefs and while I don't agree, I'll respect them. This doesn't mean I'm giving up on defending my religion, because I will do that until the day I die. I could go on and on and on about this, but I won't, because eventually one of us will want to stop replying. I wanted to be the first one, because like I said. I just wanted to say my peace and leave. Tell your cousin I said good job that he's teaching people the rights and wrongs of the world. Like I said, we never stop learning and the world could use an endless supply of teachers. Thanks for having an actual conversation by the way. The replies I've gotten before in many other topics created, yikes. Nice to see the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Being an Interest Slave to the Banksters is another reason for people to hate. Dont know how you folks in the lower mainland manage to survive the costs of living there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 13 hours ago, Apricot said: Alright, I'm getting frustrated with this back and forth conversation. We can go back and forth for days talking about this. I really just wanted to say my peace in my first post and leave. This has absolutely nothing to do with you, we're actually having a solid conversation instead of attacking each other about our differences. That really doesn't happen on CDC often. It's just that I'm getting annoyed going back and forth. You have your opinions, thoughts, and beliefs and while I don't agree, I'll respect them. This doesn't mean I'm giving up on defending my religion, because I will do that until the day I die. I could go on and on and on about this, but I won't, because eventually one of us will want to stop replying. I wanted to be the first one, because like I said. I just wanted to say my peace and leave. Tell your cousin I said good job that he's teaching people the rights and wrongs of the world. Like I said, we never stop learning and the world could use an endless supply of teachers. Thanks for having an actual conversation by the way. The replies I've gotten before in many other topics created, yikes. Nice to see the other side. No problem, I understand your frustration. we believe in different things strongly, and we can agree to disagree. You're right we need to have more actual conversations, and hear instead of suppress the others voices, at the end of the day our actions speak louder than words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Can't underestimate propaganda. Propaganda is the corner stone of extremists and cults. Ultimately turning support of one group into hatred of another. Any large group of people who only believes information from a single source, will inevitably be suckered to become a hate/indifference triggered army. In other words, hate is often manufactured, not personal, non beneficial emotion used as a weapon through propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Being an Interest Slave to the Banksters is another reason for people to hate. Dont know how you folks in the lower mainland manage to survive the costs of living there. I think most there have two or three jobs and are still struggling to get by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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