Noble 6 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 The 2018 draft is loaded with top end talent, unlike this year's draft. Next year, guys like Dahlin, Svechnikov, Velano, etc. will be available. These are guys the Canucks can't afford to miss out on. Landing one of those guys would immediately change the direction of the franchise and any one would instantly be the most valuable player in the organization. Dahlin specifically is an amazing talent on the back end and his talent level has been compared to Erik Karlsson. Here are some highlights so you can see exactly how good he is as a 16 year old. As you can see, a player of this caliber would instantly change the Canuck's fortunes. It would be great if we could just tank next year and win the lottery to get one of these players. But unfortunately, I don't think that is the best way to go. Our fanbase would not survive a season of tanking and I don't want to instill the losing environment in our locker room, especially around the young guys. However, like I said, landing a player of this caliber is absolutely critical to the Canucks future. So the question then becomes; how do we assure the lowest possible finish next year without tearing apart this team? There are variables that we can't control, such as injuries, cold streaks, puck luck, division strength, etc. but we should be looking at changing the things we can control to achieve better odds at the lottery next year. Looking at our roster, I think there is a group of players who really stabilize our whole team. They don't take over games with insane plays, but they play good hockey and do what they are asked to do effectively. Those guys are Sutter, Tanev, Dorsett, Sbisa, Edler, Hansen and Miller (Eriksson is borderline here as well). The rest of the team fluctuates between regressing veterans and young players getting themselves set in the league. I think those guys play a pretty big role in stabilizing our team and are a big part of any success (or failure) our team has. From that group, I think Tanev, Sutter and possibly Miller should stay unless we are blown away. Dorsett likely won't get us a return at all. That leaves Edler, Hansen and Sbisa as expendable pieces from this group. Losing them would have a underrated negative effect on our team, especially Edler. If we can trade 2 of them and lose one in expansion, I think we will be in a position to contend for a lottery pick next year. These moves wouldn't signify an all out tank like a Tanev trade would, but they would still highlight the point that we are a team that is effectively trying to get younger. Any potential returns that we get on 2 of these players is an important component to consider, but something equally, if not more important is the effect it has on our team on and off the ice. Yes, we could receive a couple of picks and possibly a prospect, but the loss of these players shifts the dynamic of the organization dramatically. It puts the organization in the best position to succeed in the future. Benning seems to already be at least thinking about this scenario and probably trying it right now. If Hansen has submitted his trade list, then Edler certainly could as well in the summer. Again, this would be a scenario that puts the long term success of the team first. We would be putting ourselves in a position to land a franchise defenseman or an elite center or winger. Now, in the equally as likely scenario in which we lose the lottery despite finishing bottom 3, I think we should put just about everything on the table to move back into the top 3. Everyone except for Horvat, Juolevi and Demko should be on the table. A package including our 2018 1st + Boeser + Tanev should garner some consideration. We could move into 1st overall and select our guy. I know I said that we shouldn't trade Tanev, but replacing him with a stud like Dahlin would be worth it. It wouldn't be the same as trading him for a 1st and a prospect as we are getting the best prospect in a high end draft that plays the same position in return. So in conclusion, I think we should sell of some key pieces in Edler and Hansen over the course of the next year and expose Sbisa to expansion. Not an all out tank, but definitely making ourselves weaker. From there, we do everything we can to land the best player available in the 2018 draft, and build back up from there. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcasgonewild Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I agreed with everything till u said trade boeser????????!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?? No No No Trade the vets only!!!!!!!! If u trade players like Edler Miller Hansen Burrows Sbisa we will be bottom feeders next year because we will have a very young roster. That alone will get u an early 2018 pick. No need to trade boeser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 1 minute ago, orcasgonewild said: I agreed with everything till u said trade boeser????????!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?? No No No Trade the vets only!!!!!!!! Wow! Absolutely trade only the older guys. I really hope to see .Edler traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcasgonewild Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Only vets we should keep are Sedins Tanev Sutter and Eriksson. Tanev Sutter for sure cuz Tanev will be on our top pairing and Sutter will be our 3rd line centre one day. Sedins we should only keep cuz No one will take their salary unless we retain 50%. I do think they should go in the off-season. I love the Sedins but iginla was a vet for flames and if they traded him earlier they would have gotten a better return than they got. Sedins should be sent somewhere in the off-season for a chance to win a cup. Hell Chicago could work: Shmaltz toews panik Panarin anisimov Kane Sedins hossa Jurco kero Desjardins Trade Sedins 50% retained (3.5 mil each) for sikura and first Or Montreal: Pacioretty galchenyuk radulov Lehkonen danault Gallagher Sedins Shaw Andrighetto desharnais Mitchell Trade Sedins 50% retained for plekanec and scherback and 1st Either way we get a 1st in a deep draft and a solid prospect. And as for Eriksson I say give him one more year in Vancouver because he's known to get better as he gets used to his team's Canucks lines would be later Baertschi horvat eriksson Granlund Sutter Boucher Rodin gaunce grenier Labate Chaput skille Stecher Tanev Hutton Gudbranson Tryamkin subban Marky Clearly we finish bottom 5 then we pick up solid pick in 2018 Our potential lineup in 2019 could be Baertschi horvat boeser Eriksson sutter virtanen Granlund gaudette Boucher 2018pick 2017pick Rodin Stecher Tanev Juolevi Tryamkin Hutton Gudbranson Marky From then on we can only get better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 44 minutes ago, orcasgonewild said: I agreed with everything till u said trade boeser????????!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?? No No No Trade the vets only!!!!!!!! If u trade players like Edler Miller Hansen Burrows Sbisa we will be bottom feeders next year because we will have a very young roster. That alone will get u an early 2018 pick. No need to trade boeser I knew bringing up the possibility of trading Boeser would cause a stir . I should point out that Boeser was included in a potential package for the 1st overall pick in 2018, not a veteran. We didn't get older or more expensive. In fact, we get younger. I can understand why people don't want to trade him, but if we land a player of Dahlin's caliber it has to at least be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcasgonewild Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 10 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: I knew bringing up the possibility of trading Boeser would cause a stir . I should point out that Boeser was included in a potential package for the 1st overall pick in 2018, not a veteran. We didn't get older or more expensive. In fact, we get younger. I can understand why people don't want to trade him, but if we land a player of Dahlin's caliber it has to at least be considered. Yea but where this teams at we'll have boeser, low pick this year and low pick next year maybe dahlin. LOL might as well just continue the same path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I'd just go all out tank. Be like the sabres of 2014 :D They just got outlucked by the oilers lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 1 hour ago, orcasgonewild said: Yea but where this teams at we'll have boeser, low pick this year and low pick next year maybe dahlin. LOL might as well just continue the same path It's a possibility that we win the lottery next year anyway, but not winning it is the more likely scenario. That's why I planned with that in mind. Hischier or Patrick this year and Dahlin next year would be the dream though 1 hour ago, DontMessMe said: I'd just go all out tank. Be like the sabres of 2014 :D They just got outlucked by the oilers lol. With the old lottery format, the Sabres were guaranteed a franchise center in McDavid or Eichel as the lowest they could drop was one spot to 2nd overall. The new lottery system means that we aren't guaranteed anything higher than 4th overall. If we were guaranteed to pick no lower than 2nd overall if we finished last, it would probably be a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 25 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: It's a possibility that we win the lottery next year anyway, but not winning it is the more likely scenario. That's why I planned with that in mind. Hischier or Patrick this year and Dahlin next year would be the dream though With the old lottery format, the Sabres were guaranteed a franchise center in McDavid or Eichel as the lowest they could drop was one spot to 2nd overall. The new lottery system means that we aren't guaranteed anything higher than 4th overall. If we were guaranteed to pick no lower than 2nd overall if we finished last, it would probably be a better option. 4th overall aint too bad. Better than like picking 6th or 7th yenno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, DontMessMe said: 4th overall aint too bad. Better than like picking 6th or 7th yenno. I don't think it would be worth trading guys like Tanev and Sutter to full on tank, only to potentially finish with the 4th overall pick. It would be a disaster of a season on the ice and off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Horvat is a Boss said: I don't think it would be worth trading guys like Tanev and Sutter to full on tank, only to potentially finish with the 4th overall pick. It would be a disaster of a season on the ice and off it. we're still pretty bad with them on the team anyways LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven pounds soft Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 We can't afford to miss out on the 2018 top prospects and we can't afford to tank. Well I'm sorry to tell you man but it's gotta be one or the other. We can't finish 17 th and hope for the lottery. That would be a terrible strategy. We NEED to sell NOW. Get as many draft picks and prospects we can. Next year we roll out a young team with our remaining vets mentoring and hope for the best ( less injuries, players improving) if we are going badly and out of the race by the deadline next year we do the same. Sell what we can and try and land one of the super prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 14 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said: It would be great if we could just tank next year and win the lottery to get one of these players. But unfortunately, I don't think that is the best way to go. Our fanbase would not survive a season of tanking and I don't want to instill the losing environment in our locker room, especially around the young guys. Look at the teams below the Canucks, this Canuck team will not need to tank. This group is quickly becoming the Vancouver Oilers without the guarantee of keeping a pick that goes with the standings. Losing environment?, what is the difference between what they are doing now and a winning or losing environment? I am afraid the only plan is to get the fans excited about the possibility of making the playoffs in four or five years. 12 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said: I don't think it would be worth trading guys like Tanev and Sutter to full on tank, only to potentially finish with the 4th overall pick. It would be a disaster of a season on the ice and off it. After this TDL the ED and draft day, this team will be a disaster. The Sedins are in decline, Benning has the cap strangled, there are no replacements for the Sedins on the immediate draft horizon and no clear direction or motivation to apparently go after top line players. SV is a marginal 2nd liner in the NHL, sure he is put there on this team but then when the Sedins go Chabot could be put there, it doesn't make them that efficient for the position, just filling a roster spot labelled second line. With the cap so screwed up any short term plan handcuffs the Canucks locking them into possibly being just like Calgary or any of the other "not" teams, not bad enough to get upper end/star draft picks, not good enough to make the playoffs or make a dent if they do. IMO, the only thing they can do for immediate improvement and that is all it is, is to over pay for two or three above average, almost star quality forwards. Fans have to remember that how "we" see these players as being good, the rest of the league compares them to their own and other NHL teams. so they might not be valuable as you think, I can tell you right now Grandlund is viewed as having a much higher value than Sven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 9 hours ago, Seven pounds soft said: We can't afford to miss out on the 2018 top prospects and we can't afford to tank. Well I'm sorry to tell you man but it's gotta be one or the other. We can't finish 17 th and hope for the lottery. That would be a terrible strategy. We NEED to sell NOW. Get as many draft picks and prospects we can. Next year we roll out a young team with our remaining vets mentoring and hope for the best ( less injuries, players improving) if we are going badly and out of the race by the deadline next year we do the same. Sell what we can and try and land one of the super prospects. Which is why I'm saying we should be weakening our team in a controlled way so that doesn't happen. The Canucks are 28th in the league right now, 3rd from the bottom, same place as last year. If we weaken our team by losing 2-3 of those stabilizing guys, how would we possibly finish higher in the standings? I'm just saying we shouldn't sell on Sutter or Tanev because that would put our team straight into the basement with no way out. 3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: Look at the teams below the Canucks, this Canuck team will not need to tank. This group is quickly becoming the Vancouver Oilers without the guarantee of keeping a pick that goes with the standings. Losing environment?, what is the difference between what they are doing now and a winning or losing environment? I am afraid the only plan is to get the fans excited about the possibility of making the playoffs in four or five years. After this TDL the ED and draft day, this team will be a disaster. The Sedins are in decline, Benning has the cap strangled, there are no replacements for the Sedins on the immediate draft horizon and no clear direction or motivation to apparently go after top line players. SV is a marginal 2nd liner in the NHL, sure he is put there on this team but then when the Sedins go Chabot could be put there, it doesn't make them that efficient for the position, just filling a roster spot labelled second line. With the cap so screwed up any short term plan handcuffs the Canucks locking them into possibly being just like Calgary or any of the other "not" teams, not bad enough to get upper end/star draft picks, not good enough to make the playoffs or make a dent if they do. IMO, the only thing they can do for immediate improvement and that is all it is, is to over pay for two or three above average, almost star quality forwards. Fans have to remember that how "we" see these players as being good, the rest of the league compares them to their own and other NHL teams. so they might not be valuable as you think, I can tell you right now Grandlund is viewed as having a much higher value than Sven. Have you looked at Arizona's lineup? They at one point played Peter Holland as their 1C. They've also been consistently playing Vrbata on the top line. That set's a completely different standard in the room. The player's aren't stupid, they know that they're GM is purposefully not improving their team. How can anyone want to stay there? In Vancouver we have a solid but not extraordinary group of centers in Henrik, Horvat and Sutter. We have a couple solid defenseman in Edler and Tanev and a solid goalie in Miller. That sets a completely different environment in the room as they know that they can win games, but it'll be a challenge. Overpaying for anything is never the best way to get anything done, but sometimes you are forced to given the circumstances. The new classic example is Edmonton with Hall and Larsson. I don't think the Canucks are in that position yet as our rebuild/retool is still fairly young. Compared to Edmonton, who had been rebuilding for a while and wanted to start competing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 makes some sense but again to try and trade players that we need and are better here and want to stay here I for one am glad we do not have some on here as the GM or we would be like the Islanders and never get good and when we do for two years max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just because, here's another recent clip of Dahlin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 6 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Have you looked at Arizona's lineup? They at one point played Peter Holland as their 1C. They've also been consistently playing Vrbata on the top line. That set's a completely different standard in the room. The player's aren't stupid, they know that they're GM is purposefully not improving their team. How can anyone want to stay there? In Vancouver we have a solid but not extraordinary group of centers in Henrik, Horvat and Sutter. We have a couple solid defenseman in Edler and Tanev and a solid goalie in Miller. That sets a completely different environment in the room as they know that they can win games, but it'll be a challenge. Arizona? The team that is catching up to the Canucks? The place where there is no income tax? Where every player gets a pay increase by going there? Where they can be as crappy as they want and know they have job security? Where they can walk down the street and not get molested by rabid fans, they can have an amost normal life? The one that has more prospects in junior than the Canucks have all together? That Arizona? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 21 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Arizona? The team that is catching up to the Canucks? The place where there is no income tax? Where every player gets a pay increase by going there? Where they can be as crappy as they want and know they have job security? Where they can walk down the street and not get molested by rabid fans, they can have an amost normal life? The one that has more prospects in junior than the Canucks have all together? That Arizona? Your talking about everything except dressing room environments and standards. It's not fun losing every other day no matter how nice the weather and taxes are. Those guys have all worked too hard to get to that level. Those guys have even less hope of winning games with probably their best center off the team. That's the environment that all their prospects are stepping into, and some of them already have like Dvorak, Crouse, etc. That's what I'm talking about. Income and media have nothing to do with dressing room environments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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