Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW

[shad0w4life]

8 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Goldobin 

32 giveaways 

20 takeaways

 

Virtanen

19 giveaways 

41 takeaways

 

Simple math bruh 

You should probably not comment on hockey if you're going to say Brent Burns, Matthew Barzal, Johnny Gadreau, Aaron Ekblad, Drew Doughty  are all horrible players that should be cut. Pulling up the most useless statistic to bash a player and having it backfire....priceless

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?season=2018&category=DEFENSE&group=1&sort=8&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=1

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by shad0w4life

[73 Percent]

17 minutes ago, shad0w4life said:

You should probably not comment on hockey if you're going to say Brent Burns, Matthew Barzal, Johnny Gadreau, Aaron Ekblad, Drew Doughty  are all horrible players that should be cut. Pulling up the most useless statistic to bash a player and having it backfire....priceless

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?season=2018&category=DEFENSE&group=1&sort=8&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=1

 

 

So its only relevant when it supports your theory. 

 

Noted.

[shad0w4life]

2 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

So its only relevant when it supports your theory. 

 

Noted.

I didn't propose any theory, I said JV shoots the puck into shinpads and loses it stick handling, you then randomly came up with giveaways and takeaways which has nothing to do with either of those, but to entertain what you said I went and checked out how worthless and inaccurate that stat is.

 

if shooting into the shinpad or overskating the puck was a giveaway, JV would be near the top of the NHL. He lacks any sort of play making skill but gets credit for trying to fix his numerous mistakes.

[73 Percent]

34 minutes ago, shad0w4life said:

I didn't propose any theory, I said JV shoots the puck into shinpads and loses it stick handling, you then randomly came up with giveaways and takeaways which has nothing to do with either of those, but to entertain what you said I went and checked out how worthless and inaccurate that stat is.

 

if shooting into the shinpad or overskating the puck was a giveaway, JV would be near the top of the NHL. He lacks any sort of play making skill but gets credit for trying to fix his numerous mistakes.

Definition of givaway right there bud. He's only done that max 19 times this season. He's far better at recovering his mistakes than goldobin is, who just coasts back to his own zone after losing it.

 

There's a reason goldobin is parked and virtanen isn't.

Edited March 20, 2019 by 73 Percent

[Tre Mac]

To be fair Goldy passes more than Virtanen, which is why he has more giveaways, moot point.  I think NG is done as a Canuck, he might get another game or two, but will likely be gone in the offseason.  When Green brings  up '4points in 22 games wont keep you in the NHL' the writing is on the wall.  

[Ronaldoescobar]

Goldy's all but gone now (just waiting until the off-season to unload him).

 

He'll be replaced with a player that has far far less skill but actually puts in the effort. Frustrating to say the least but that's on Goldy himself. 

[filthycanuck]

10 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Baerstchi was never a defensive liability like goldobin. While not physically imposing, SB goes into the corners and wins puck battles. Im not sure if he did this with the flames/abbotsford and utica, but he does it for us. That is exactly what goldobin doesnt get. He doesnt get it with the canucks. He didnt get it with the comets. He didnt get it with the sharks, or the Barracuda. 

 

Its like beating a dead horse with him. 

Yes thats why hes having hard time making in the NHL, oh wait, hes here. As soon as the trade with Shark and Canucks was made, Goldobin was in the lineup. He must have gotten some parts of his stint in AHL to make it to the bigs The Sharks are in championship mode, and have depth in their prospect pool to get a Jannik Hansen. And in Utica, he was their best player on MANY nights he was there. Baertchi was a liablity and so was his effort, exact same case, he was scratched for many games in a row during that time. If he wasnt liability, he would've been in the regular in the lineup which he wasn't at that time at 23.

 

Im noticing people can't make up their minds in general on how Utica develops their prospects and just expects ready made stars to come out of the farm. Lind isn't putting up the numbers, but hes playing the right way, everybodys complaining that his development is slow or messed up. Goldy dominated as a Comet, then everybody wants him run out of town in his first full season LOL. Im not sure if the expectations are now higher just because Boeser, Petey, Horvat and even Gaudette all are contributors early, but for a player to struggle at 22-23 isn't unusual. Seems like most people think that as soon as they are in the big club, they are all 200 ft players thats gonna score every other night. Thats wishful thinking. And don't even get me started with the ridiculous proposals, Goldy for a 2nd, or Goldy for Fabbro or Jake Bean, "we need a young defenceman" deals. Aint' happening unless theres 1st or Raymond and Ballard going the other way.

[Smashian Kassian]

16 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Yes hes not producing enough, but keep in mind, Baerthchi and Goldobin at the same age at 23  have almost the exact point totals, +-, with almost the same (Im assuming Goldy will play 5-7 more games this year) amount of games played, did we give up on Baertchi? No we didn't. Sven had the exact problems Goldobin has right now, flashy plays and sub par defensively and effort. Baertchi came back the next year, injuries aside, was a mainstay in the lineup. If this is a persistent problem NEXT year then all bets are off. Baertchi at 23 played 69 games i believe, Goldy is at 62 as off this season with games left. We need guys like Goldy, Lind etc. to develop somehow and become contributors so we have to be patient. I don't think anybodys mentioned this point but also for salary cap reasons. We can't keep signing or trading for guys that are making 3 plus million as bandaid until the young guys "get it" and play a 200 ft game. The team needs players that will score above what their contract value is, entry level deals, qualified RFAs. Minnesota Wild tried that before, just signing name guys in the summer (Suter, Parise, and I think Vanek?), look how its turned out for them? Have they even won a playoff round since? No finals, no stanley cup

 

I don't think they're the same kind of player. Age comparison is okay, but I don't think Goldy will ever be as good defensively or along the boards. Baertschi's more of an opportunistic offensive player. Plays a reliable 200ft game then jumps into holes & makes plays quickly. Goldy's effectiveness comes with the puck on his stick.

 

In junior I thought Goldy could be a guy who drives offense himself in the NHL, but that hasn't been the case. He was good feeding off Pettersson, but hasn't been able to replicate that with Horvat or Gaudette. I'll never forget when he dangled/embarrassed Doughty & scored. But he's not talented enough to do that night in & night out.

 

At this point he's a depth offensive player to me, like a Spooner or Gagner type. Which is fine to bring back if there are no other options but I wonder if Green is running out of patience with Goldy. 

[BananaMash]

24 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I don't think they're the same kind of player. Age comparison is okay, but I don't think Goldy will ever be as good defensively or along the boards. Baertschi's more of an opportunistic offensive player. Plays a reliable 200ft game then jumps into holes & makes plays quickly. Goldy's effectiveness comes with the puck on his stick.

 

In junior I thought Goldy could be a guy who drives offense himself in the NHL, but that hasn't been the case. He was good feeding off Pettersson, but hasn't been able to replicate that with Horvat or Gaudette. I'll never forget when he dangled/embarrassed Doughty & scored. But he's not talented enough to do that night in & night out.

 

At this point he's a depth offensive player to me, like a Spooner or Gagner type. Which is fine to bring back if there are no other options but I wonder if Green is running out of patience with Goldy. 

Baertschi is also a significantly better passer. Goldobin has way higher creativity in the passes he attempts, but they don't tend to be very smart. It's like the Pettersson flair with very little idea how to execute on it tape to tape. Occasionally one goes through and it makes him look better than he's actually playing, though.

 

I really wish Sven didn't have all these concussion issues derail him. He's like a 45-50 point guy, but nobody else works as well with Horvat. He's also extremely stable in his role. Missed by the team big time, imo.

[Smashian Kassian]

1 hour ago, BananaMash said:

Baertschi is also a significantly better passer. Goldobin has way higher creativity in the passes he attempts, but they don't tend to be very smart. It's like the Pettersson flair with very little idea how to execute on it tape to tape. Occasionally one goes through and it makes him look better than he's actually playing, though.

 

I really wish Sven didn't have all these concussion issues derail him. He's like a 45-50 point guy, but nobody else works as well with Horvat. He's also extremely stable in his role. Missed by the team big time, imo.

I agree completely on Goldobin & Baer.

 

Its really too bad for Baertschi, right as he's starting to come into his own as a legit top 6 NHL player too.

 

He's got a family now, I wonder what his next move will be. He's got alot more to worry about than hockey, wouldn't be surprised if he doesnt play again. But hopefully he's able to get back & stay healthy, the team needs him for sure. 

[filthycanuck]

6 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I don't think they're the same kind of player. Age comparison is okay, but I don't think Goldy will ever be as good defensively or along the boards. Baertschi's more of an opportunistic offensive player. Plays a reliable 200ft game then jumps into holes & makes plays quickly. Goldy's effectiveness comes with the puck on his stick.

 

In junior I thought Goldy could be a guy who drives offense himself in the NHL, but that hasn't been the case. He was good feeding off Pettersson, but hasn't been able to replicate that with Horvat or Gaudette. I'll never forget when he dangled/embarrassed Doughty & scored. But he's not talented enough to do that night in & night out.

 

At this point he's a depth offensive player to me, like a Spooner or Gagner type. Which is fine to bring back if there are no other options but I wonder if Green is running out of patience with Goldy. 

Its gonna be tough getting into the lineup the way the team is playing, ill admit that. I think one more year should be sufficient enough time to see what hes done. Its hard enough getting good players in the draft as it is, let alone have them be successful in AHL then graduate to the big leagues. Remember, Baertchi, and Granlund came from trades from Calgary who gave up on both of them, and we've reaped the benefits of it. We've won those trades handidly. Its his first full season, I'd rather be patient with Goldy and if he fails next year, I'd rather have that than trading him and he unlocks the potential that we've seen flashes of here

[mll]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:57 AM, filthycanuck said:

Yes hes not producing enough, but keep in mind, Baerthchi and Goldobin at the same age at 23  have almost the exact point totals, +-, with almost the same (Im assuming Goldy will play 5-7 more games this year) amount of games played, did we give up on Baertchi? No we didn't. Sven had the exact problems Goldobin has right now, flashy plays and sub par defensively and effort. Baertchi came back the next year, injuries aside, was a mainstay in the lineup. If this is a persistent problem NEXT year then all bets are off. Baertchi at 23 played 69 games i believe, Goldy is at 62 as off this season with games left. We need guys like Goldy, Lind etc. to develop somehow and become contributors so we have to be patient. I don't think anybodys mentioned this point but also for salary cap reasons. We can't keep signing or trading for guys that are making 3 plus million as bandaid until the young guys "get it" and play a 200 ft game. The team needs players that will score above what their contract value is, entry level deals, qualified RFAs. Minnesota Wild tried that before, just signing name guys in the summer (Suter, Parise, and I think Vanek?), look how its turned out for them? Have they even won a playoff round since? No finals, no stanley cup

Their situations are not comparable.  

 

Baertschi mostly played in a defensive role his 1st season with the Canucks.  Green even used Baertschi as example to Shinkaruk.  It's Baertschi's defence that bought him time to find his game.  WD said he was surprised how good Baertschi was defensively.  Those quotes can easily be found.

 

WD explained that Baertschi wasn't doing anything offensively but wasn't hurting the team defensively so he put him with Horvat to give him time to find his confidence.  He was using Horvat to shutdown scoring lines.  They somehow found a way to click and to produce.  Once Baertschi found his offence WD separated them.  He explained that Baertschi took Horvat off his game because he is an offensive player and Horvat was then pushing for offence instead of first playing solid defence.  He even started Horvat the following season with Dorsett/Burrows while Baertschi was with Granlund who WD saw as an offensive playmaker.

 

Baertschi got scratched a lot in the first couple of months under WD - it was not because of effort or defensive struggle but lack of confidence.  WD explained a few times that he has never been as hard on Baertschi as he is on himself.  He says Baertschi can get in his own way because he is so hard on himself.  He also says that he had time for Baertschi because he never complained and just went to work.  WD actually admitted that some in management were wondering if he was a fit but that Green and Weisbrod were in his corner.  He also said that it's injuries that got him a reprieve. 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by mll

[wai_lai416]

I actually think goldobin have been much better defensively in the past couple months, but at the same time he has suffered offensively since then. I kinda feel that he’s no longer willing to drive the net or take advantage of offensive opportunity when it presents itself because he’s worried about being caught out defensively and then ending up in the press box. Green and Utica is doing a great job turning all the players with any signs of offensive capability into granlunds. His style of players

[smokes]

Looking back on this trade, we would have been better off keeping Hansen.

[Gurn]

Nope, I liked Hansen but he is on the decline, playing overseas. Goldy is far younger and more talented, the question is whether he will learn how to play with more compete, before the end of next season. If not he will be gone imo.

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, gurn said:

Nope, I liked Hansen but he is on the decline, playing overseas. Goldy is far younger and more talented, the question is whether he will learn how to play with more compete, before the end of next season. If not he will be gone imo.

I'm not sure he even has that long. Roster be crowded yo. And I'd imagine Benning's looking long and hard at potential top 6 upgrades this summer.

[Gurn]

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'm not sure he even has that long. Roster be crowded yo. And I'd imagine Benning's looking long and hard at potential top 6 upgrades this summer.

I'd say they have about 6 extra forwards of the "middle/lower six" variety.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

I'd say they have about 6 extra forwards of the "middle/lower six" variety.

 yup. Though Granlund is likely not back, Spooner and Schaller likely waived or traded... And we'll see on Eriksson (trade/retire). So that's 4.

 

Still, assuming we target a top 6 (I vote Dzingel) guy (need some insurance against Baer being/staying healthy IMO), there's no room at the inn.

 

Baer/Dzingel, Pettersson, Boeser

Dzingel/Baer, Horvat, Pearson/Leivo

Leivo/Pearson, Gaudette, Virtanen

Roussel, Beagle, Sutter

 

Motte

 

No room for Goldy. And that's without any other prospects pushing for spots, or should we miraculously win a lotto slot, a guy like Kakko potentially making the team.

[Gurn]

Need to keep a couple around though, in the highly unlikely event of injuries. 

[Kootenay Gold]

IMO... Petey, Boeser, Horvat, Roussel, Virtanen, Leivo, Gaudette, Beagle, Pearson and Baertschi (if he can stay healthy) will most likely be returning next year those that may be on the outside looking in include... Goldobin. Eriksson, Granlund, Schaller, Gaunce, Spooner, Sutter and Motte. I may be way off base but this is just my opinion of how I view the team going forward and does not include variables such as McEwen possibly making the team out of camp next year.