UticaHockey Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said: Goldy is 9 months older and has spent 2 years in the AHL and one in the Finnish Liiga. His year to break out in the NHL is next year I believe. I don't disagree with that and if the Canucks were a playoff team next year it would make sense for him to be in the NHL if he is contributing. But I don't think the Canucks will be a playoff team next season and they may be better served by the Leafs model for a rebuild which was signing a number of NHL depth players to short term contracts while keeping the kids down on the farm an extra season. The Leafs also flipped a lot of these expiring contracts into more draft choices. Now their rebuild was expedited by winning the lottery in a year that a generational player was available but the bottom line is they had a long term strategy approach and stuck with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, UticaHockey said: I don't disagree with that and if the Canucks were a playoff team next year it would make sense for him to be in the NHL if he is contributing. But I don't think the Canucks will be a playoff team next season and they may be better served by the Leafs model for a rebuild which was signing a number of NHL depth players to short term contracts while keeping the kids down on the farm an extra season. The Leafs also flipped a lot of these expiring contracts into more draft choices. Now their rebuild was expedited by winning the lottery in a year that a generational player was available but the bottom line is they had a long term strategy approach and stuck with it. I would love to see this happen. Without any depth on the Canucks team there will be spots available for guys that could use more time in the AHL like Goldy and Virtanen, maybe even Boeser but he's looked pretty NHL ready in those last games. Iron out the kinks in their game and let them develop slowly and come into the league when they are properly seasoned and ready for it. Unfortunately I can't see it happening just from a business perspective as owners will expect to see the young guns in the lineup to sell tickets. The Aquaweenies don't seem like the type to embrace the full rebuild and eat some profit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaHockey Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: I would love to see this happen. Without any depth on the Canucks team there will be spots available for guys that could use more time in the AHL like Goldy and Virtanen, maybe even Boeser but he's looked pretty NHL ready in those last games. Iron out the kinks in their game and let them develop slowly and come into the league when they are properly seasoned and ready for it. Unfortunately I can't see it happening just from a business perspective as owners will expect to see the young guns in the lineup to sell tickets. The Aquaweenies don't seem like the type to embrace the full rebuild and eat some profit. People complain about Willie, Trevor and Benning but if ownership is more concerned with selling tickets than a proper rebuild it will be a very long time before the Canucks are a Stanley Cup contender. Sorry but as an outsider that is how I see things out in Vancouver. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 minute ago, UticaHockey said: People complain about Willie, Trevor and Benning but if ownership is more concerned with selling tickets than a proper rebuild it will be a very long time before the Canucks are a Stanley Cup contender. Sorry but as an outsider that is how I see things out in Vancouver. I've never understood this. Mediocrity also doesn't sell tickets. Boring aging vets hockey doesn't sell tickets. I think if they can sell a rebuild with an identity as a young and fast team with some size (Gudbranson, Tryamkin, hopefully Virtanen etc) even if we are near the bottom, they will be selling hope and a future, which is what they finally laid the foundation for this year. So the whole ownership meddling thing is either a big myth or it's in the past now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 This is probably the Sedin's last year so that's two spots waiting to be filled. That may be good information for any top prospect that's asked to spend the season developing their game in Utica. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 3 hours ago, UticaHockey said: In three short games that I saw Goldy play I would agree with this. What I don't understand is why is there an expectation for guys like him to play grittier. Isn't that the job of all the other guys on the team who actually don't have the high-end skill that Goldy does? I mean, does Johnny Gaudreau need to play grittier? Does William Nylander need to play grittier? I get that in a team environment, you don't want these skilled guys to be lazy and expect them to also play in their defensive zone, but to expect them to be grittier? I don't get it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borvat Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, MJDDawg said: What I don't understand is why is there an expectation for guys like him to play grittier. Isn't that the job of all the other guys on the team who actually don't have the high-end skill that Goldy does? I mean, does Johnny Gaudreau need to play grittier? Does William Nylander need to play grittier? I get that in a team environment, you don't want these skilled guys to be lazy and expect them to also play in their defensive zone, but to expect them to be grittier? I don't get it. I totally agree. Teams need skill in their top six. Goldobin's strength is his creativity and offensive I. Q. why not use it, nurture it instead of trying to make him something he is not. If he doesn't fit move on but please don't take something this team desperately needs and ruin it and the player. He isn't a bottom six forward. Edited April 16, 2017 by Borvat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, MJDDawg said: What I don't understand is why is there an expectation for guys like him to play grittier. Isn't that the job of all the other guys on the team who actually don't have the high-end skill that Goldy does? I mean, does Johnny Gaudreau need to play grittier? Does William Nylander need to play grittier? I get that in a team environment, you don't want these skilled guys to be lazy and expect them to also play in their defensive zone, but to expect them to be grittier? I don't get it. In Goldobin's case it would benefit his ability to play 5v5 and allow him to play stronger matchups if he can become become along the boards and increase his intensity when trying to retrieve the puck. Just watching the playoffs you notice the importance of winning puck battles in tightly contested games. I don't think it will hinder his offensive abilities either to improve in those areas. I think its something that all young skilled players have to learn. Nylander spent some time on the 3rd line learning to improve his compete level and two way ability. Edited April 16, 2017 by Toews 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thad Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, MJDDawg said: What I don't understand is why is there an expectation for guys like him to play grittier. Isn't that the job of all the other guys on the team who actually don't have the high-end skill that Goldy does? I mean, does Johnny Gaudreau need to play grittier? Does William Nylander need to play grittier? I get that in a team environment, you don't want these skilled guys to be lazy and expect them to also play in their defensive zone, but to expect them to be grittier? I don't get it. I don't think he wants him running around throwing big hits or anything but more just stronger on the puck. If you can't go into the corner and come out with the puck you have no business playing hockey in North America imo. I think the difference in Baertschi from when we first got him to now is what we're looking for. He couldn't win a lot of puck battles and was easily knocked off the puck. That's how you get the minute + ozone shifts. Everyone pulling their weight in puck battles. Guys with skill are dime a dozen these days but this is a mans league. The ones that stick are the guys that will do absolutely anything to keep the play alive. It's why these kids have to sit in the press box every once in a while. Get a different view of what happens when the opposing player wants the puck 10 times more than you do. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borvat Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 minute ago, thad said: I don't think he wants him running around throwing big hits or anything but more just stronger on the puck. If you can't go into the corner and come out with the puck you have no business playing hockey in North America imo. I think the difference in Baertschi from when we first got him to now is what we're looking for. He couldn't win a lot of puck battles and was easily knocked off the puck. That's how you get the minute + ozone shifts. Everyone pulling their weight in puck battles. Guys with skill are dime a dozen these days but this is a mans league. The ones that stick are the guys that will do absolutely anything to keep the play alive. It's why these kids have to sit in the press box every once in a while. Get a different view of what happens when the opposing player wants the puck 10 times more than you do. And this thinking is why Baertschi is oft injured and Gaudreau is not the same creative player anymore. It gets coached out of them or they get frustrated or injured. Gretzky, Lemieux, Bure made plays and the grinder/role players did their jobs. Now its all about positional play, defense first and don't think about turning the puck over or you will sit. Yet the trap and dump and chase are the norm. I miss Bure, Gretzky, Lemieux, et al and their freedom to play hockey like it was meant to be played. What we see played most nights now is boring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaHockey Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, thad said: I don't think he wants him running around throwing big hits or anything but more just stronger on the puck. If you can't go into the corner and come out with the puck you have no business playing hockey in North America imo. I think the difference in Baertschi from when we first got him to now is what we're looking for. He couldn't win a lot of puck battles and was easily knocked off the puck. That's how you get the minute + ozone shifts. Everyone pulling their weight in puck battles. Guys with skill are dime a dozen these days but this is a mans league. The ones that stick are the guys that will do absolutely anything to keep the play alive. It's why these kids have to sit in the press box every once in a while. Get a different view of what happens when the opposing player wants the puck 10 times more than you do. I agree with everything you said. Being strong on the puck and responsible in your own end doesn't mean clippings his offensive wings. Case in point just before Goldy scored his first goal in Utica Friday night he had a terrible give away right in the deep slot that Bachman bailed him out with a great save which lead to a 2 on 1 back the other way and the Goldy goal. If Bachman doesn't come up with that save it's a 1 - 1 hockey game instead of a 2 - 0 Comets lead. Sure I'm nitpicking a little and Goldy wasn't used to his new team and teammates yet but he can't be just an offensive threat and not care what he does in the defensive zone. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Borvat said: And this thinking is why Baertschi is oft injured and Gaudreau is not the same creative player anymore. It gets coached out of them or they get frustrated or injured. Gretzky, Lemieux, Bure made plays and the grinder/role players did their jobs. Now its all about positional play, defense first and don't think about turning the puck over or you will sit. Yet the trap and dump and chase are the norm. I miss Bure, Gretzky, Lemieux, et al and their freedom to play hockey like it was meant to be played. What we see played most nights now is boring. Best players at forward now are super grinders, like Crosby and Toews. The Twins were friggin poetry on ice, when they were putting up 100+ points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 52 minutes ago, MJDDawg said: What I don't understand is why is there an expectation for guys like him to play grittier. Isn't that the job of all the other guys on the team who actually don't have the high-end skill that Goldy does? I mean, does Johnny Gaudreau need to play grittier? Does William Nylander need to play grittier? I get that in a team environment, you don't want these skilled guys to be lazy and expect them to also play in their defensive zone, but to expect them to be grittier? I don't get it. It's not about turning him to a grinder. Corner/board battles, puck retrieval, going to the front of the net etc... and not being a perimeter player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thad Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, Borvat said: And this thinking is why Baertschi is oft injured and Gaudreau is not the same creative player anymore. It gets coached out of them or they get frustrated or injured. Gretzky, Lemieux, Bure made plays and the grinder/role players did their jobs. Now its all about positional play, defense first and don't think about turning the puck over or you will sit. Yet the trap and dump and chase are the norm. I miss Bure, Gretzky, Lemieux, et al and their freedom to play hockey like it was meant to be played. What we see played most nights now is boring. Gretzky said himself after losing to the islanders he realized what it takes to be a champion after walking past the islanders dressing room. Instead of jumping up and down celebrating they were sitting there with ice packs nursing their injuries. The oilers realized if you want to win you have to pay the price. Just because a player gets better at not getting knocked off the puck doesn't mean he loses skill. It means you are likely to have more scoring chances because your team still has the puck. I don't disagree the game could use less dump and chase but hockey would be brutal if every coach told their skill guys to float and wait for the puck to come to them. This has nothing to do with what they want from goldy anyways. They just need him to be able to hang on to the puck under pressure. The game isn't 60 minutes of breakaways and 2 on 1s. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borvat Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 31 minutes ago, thad said: Gretzky said himself after losing to the islanders he realized what it takes to be a champion after walking past the islanders dressing room. Instead of jumping up and down celebrating they were sitting there with ice packs nursing their injuries. The oilers realized if you want to win you have to pay the price. Just because a player gets better at not getting knocked off the puck doesn't mean he loses skill. It means you are likely to have more scoring chances because your team still has the puck. I don't disagree the game could use less dump and chase but hockey would be brutal if every coach told their skill guys to float and wait for the puck to come to them. This has nothing to do with what they want from goldy anyways. They just need him to be able to hang on to the puck under pressure. The game isn't 60 minutes of breakaways and 2 on 1s. I think its a mix of players playing their roles, but collectively I agree they need to play a team game. Look at how the Oilers are constructed again. I believe they have the right mix of players playing their roles. A very good "team" that mat be a top defenseman away from being a great team. The reason? McDavid and his skill, not his defense. Take him off that team and they likely miss the playoffs. I just don't understand trying to coach the skill out of players and the game. Help them to be responsible yes, but not to the point of taking the sheer joy, passion and skill out of their game. I admit I prefer watching a 5 - 4 game versus a 2 -1 double overtime game. Personal preference I guess. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaHockey Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 40 minutes ago, Borvat said: I think its a mix of players playing their roles, but collectively I agree they need to play a team game. Look at how the Oilers are constructed again. I believe they have the right mix of players playing their roles. A very good "team" that mat be a top defenseman away from being a great team. The reason? McDavid and his skill, not his defense. Take him off that team and they likely miss the playoffs. I just don't understand trying to coach the skill out of players and the game. Help them to be responsible yes, but not to the point of taking the sheer joy, passion and skill out of their game. I admit I prefer watching a 5 - 4 game versus a 2 -1 double overtime game. Personal preference I guess. I agree with that too but at the end of each game if your skill guy scores 2 goals and is on the ice for 3 against the team is more likely to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borvat Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, UticaHockey said: I agree with that too but at the end of each game if your skill guy scores 2 goals and is on the ice for 3 against the team is more likely to lose. I don't disagree, I just like watching skill as much (or more) as physical tough two way hockey. It just seems the game has gravitated more to a two way, defensive, dump and chase, don't lose rather than try and win style of game. Takes the excitement and beauty out of the greatest game on earth and stifles skill. Again I like all aspects of the game. If the Canucks don't have a McDavid or Matthews or the like they are going to need 2 or 3 guys with skill to make up for it. Goldobin, Baertschi and Boeser need to be able to play to their strength's or it's going to be the same old boring cycle and dump and chase hope not to lose games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I think Goldobin's anticipation and Jake speed could lead to a lot of odd man rushes in the future. That's an issue that Jake had to deal with this year. A lot of 1v1 or 1v2 rushes where he can't get a good chance. Goldobin is also very good and finding the soft spots and making room for his linemates. If we do end up with NP or NH I would like to see them in the middle of those two at some point. Even Vilardi, Middlestadt or Necas would be a nice fit for those 2 wingers. Both could play there off sides as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Man.. watching the playoffs shows exactly where we need to get Goldy and others... every skilled player is battling hard for the puck and back checking like crazy. I think Baer and Granny battle, but they maybe don't have the offensive upside of a Goldobin. It's all good - he'll get there with this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 10 hours ago, UticaHockey said: I don't disagree with that and if the Canucks were a playoff team next year it would make sense for him to be in the NHL if he is contributing. But I don't think the Canucks will be a playoff team next season and they may be better served by the Leafs model for a rebuild which was signing a number of NHL depth players to short term contracts while keeping the kids down on the farm an extra season. The Leafs also flipped a lot of these expiring contracts into more draft choices. Now their rebuild was expedited by winning the lottery in a year that a generational player was available but the bottom line is they had a long term strategy approach and stuck with it. Well, up until the TDL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now