Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW

[Westcoasting]

1 hour ago, skategal said:

Not sure how long the organizational patience will last.  I see some improvement in his game where he's stronger on the forecheck and some of the board battles in his own end, but then I see him blindly pass the puck to the Sharks just outside his blueline, and totally glide back on a back check that cost a goal against.  He doesn't have that consistent pit bull mentality that players need to protect their own end of the ice.  Compare his play to Pettersson who throws everything he has into protecting his net, sometimes causing us to hold our breath when he's shot blocking.  I had hoped that Goldy playing with Pettersson would help him see and understand how to defend and what was expected of him, but it doesn't seem to be clicking.  That tells me he may never get "it".  With the access to coaching that he has, if the desire was there, he'd be improving by leaps and bounds.  

I think he's done, i would be amazed if he was here next year.

[Crabcakes]

13 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

It's an invaluable experience for Jim & Travis about doing their due diligence before you sign a player and about what can't be taught and can't be learned.

Benning is the one making the calls on these deals not Green.  There are a couple of things here.

1. Doug Wilson is a wily veteran GM and one should be very careful when dealing with him
2. Goldy was in his last year before waiver eligibility when the deal was made.  If you're not sure he's ready to play at the NHL level, the price had better be right.

Benning and company seem to be very sure of themselves with respect to developing players.  I think that in general, the do a very good job but clearly, not every player works out.  Granted, some of the players who have come and gone were long shots but even some players with decent pedigree haven't done that well.  I'm talking about Goldy and Pouliot on the present roster.  I think that Benning was afraid that he would lose Hansen for nothing to Vegas in the expansion draft.  Wilson knew this.  I'm sure he has a copy of Machiavelli's The Prince and Sun Tsu's The Art of War in his office.  

[Maninthebox]

Some of you have extremely narrow vision. I don't understand how people can profess to be hockey fans and yet have no grasp of what is actually happening on the ice.

[Westcoasting]

2 hours ago, Maninthebox said:

Some of you have extremely narrow vision. I don't understand how people can profess to be hockey fans and yet have no grasp of what is actually happening on the ice.

You should tell us so we know...because you do know is that correct?

[JeremyCuddles]

2 hours ago, Maninthebox said:

Some of you have extremely narrow vision. I don't understand how people can profess to be hockey fans and yet have no grasp of what is actually happening on the ice.

 

28 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

You should tell us so we know...because you do know is that correct?

People have opinions that are opposite to his own therefore they "know nothing about hockey". He is above such stupidity unlike the rest of us. It's hard being so dumb.  

[kloubek]

I believe Benning and Green feel Goldy can be a good player but their opinion can only last so long before they give up.

 

I don't want them to get rid of Goldobin until they are confident he won't amount to anything and there is little harm in exploring that possibility for longer... especially as we have limited talent on our top 6 wings as it is.

 

Continue to let him play with Pettersson and put up some points to maximize his value then move him for maximum value (as it is) once it is time.

[Crabcakes]

7 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I believe Benning and Green feel Goldy can be a good player but their opinion can only last so long before they give up.

 

I don't want them to get rid of Goldobin until they are confident he won't amount to anything and there is little harm in exploring that possibility for longer... especially as we have limited talent on our top 6 wings as it is.

 

Continue to let him play with Pettersson and put up some points to maximize his value then move him for maximum value (as it is) once it is time.

You are right.  Benning himself said that there are a lot of games left in the season (30 at the time of the interview) and that they were doing their best to develop him into the player they think he can be.

 

Honestly, Goldy is getting raked over the coals for his give away last game but until about half time, I thought he was doing quite well.  His play can be inconsistent.  I really hope it works out for him.

[Westcoasting]

49 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

You are right.  Benning himself said that there are a lot of games left in the season (30 at the time of the interview) and that they were doing their best to develop him into the player they think he can be.

 

Honestly, Goldy is getting raked over the coals for his give away last game but until about half time, I thought he was doing quite well.  His play can be inconsistent.  I really hope it works out for him.

I'm guilty of that.. once i get a bad vibe about a player it seems the mistakes are way worse than others! 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Its odd with Goldy.  Beginning of the year, he was playing soooo well but just wasn't getting the results.  I was okay with that, because eventually that hard work was turning into results.

 

Now its inconsistent effort and no results altogether.

 

For him, its not even a game to game consistency issue, its almost a shift to shift/moment by moment issue with him.  He can have absolutely brilliant moments on one shift, but on the same shift he leaves so many question marks afterwards.  The message to him almost has to be broken down to a point where it should be "Goldy I want to see the same determination you had in that 10 seconds for a full 30-40 second when you are on the ice". 

 

Forget the game to game consistency, or shift to shift.  Break it down even further, Goldy we need you to be thorough for the full shift, not just the first 15 when you are fresh, but the rest of that shift.   Too often I see him skating hard for the first 15-20 seconds and its hard skating up the wall, engaging in a puck battle and getting into the dirty areas, but its looks like he is totally wasted the latter half of the shift.  Can't tell if its his confidence, lack of fitness, or just pure stubbornness.

 

I say it every time in this thread, Goldy has game breaking skill....skill wise, I think he is the second best player on the team behind EP.  He has the knowledge and skills to turn a game on the dot in his favor, but that work ethic really hinders him from being a full impact player. 

[filthycanuck]

1 hour ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Its odd with Goldy.  Beginning of the year, he was playing soooo well but just wasn't getting the results.  I was okay with that, because eventually that hard work was turning into results.

 

Now its inconsistent effort and no results altogether.

 

For him, its not even a game to game consistency issue, its almost a shift to shift/moment by moment issue with him.  He can have absolutely brilliant moments on one shift, but on the same shift he leaves so many question marks afterwards.  The message to him almost has to be broken down to a point where it should be "Goldy I want to see the same determination you had in that 10 seconds for a full 30-40 second when you are on the ice". 

 

Forget the game to game consistency, or shift to shift.  Break it down even further, Goldy we need you to be thorough for the full shift, not just the first 15 when you are fresh, but the rest of that shift.   Too often I see him skating hard for the first 15-20 seconds and its hard skating up the wall, engaging in a puck battle and getting into the dirty areas, but its looks like he is totally wasted the latter half of the shift.  Can't tell if its his confidence, lack of fitness, or just pure stubbornness.

 

I say it every time in this thread, Goldy has game breaking skill....skill wise, I think he is the second best player on the team behind EP.  He has the knowledge and skills to turn a game on the dot in his favor, but that work ethic really hinders him from being a full impact player. 

I agree, but lets look at his season or his career as a Canuck as a whole though. Has he improved year to year? Yes I'd like to think so. This is Goldy's FIRST, I repeat FIRST, whole season with the big club. Lets give the kid a few more of those before we can judge whether hes going to get it or not. Im not ready throw the towel on him just yet, theres guys above him that should be walking the plank first, namely Sutter, Granlund, less extent Schaller. The first two have had their chances already to make an impact and haven't shown anything. Granlund hasn't shown a whole lot and doesn't have a defined role in this team, and Sutter is clearly trending downwards. Remember, this is the same Goldy that was playing in the top line and EP40 was rackin up points. People can argue that Goldy was riding Petterson coat tails but he also hasn't been putting up the points in a torrid pace like he was earlier in the season. It seems to me, that Leivo's insertion on the top line has benefited more towards Boeser. Either way, lets be patient with Goldy, Baertchi and Virtanen got the same treatment and had the same problems their first few seasons here.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

7 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

I agree, but lets look at his season or his career as a Canuck as a whole though. Has he improved year to year? Yes I'd like to think so. This is Goldy's FIRST, I repeat FIRST, whole season with the big club. Lets give the kid a few more of those before we can judge whether hes going to get it or not. Im not ready throw the towel on him just yet, theres guys above him that should be walking the plank first, namely Sutter, Granlund, less extent Schaller. The first two have had their chances already to make an impact and haven't shown anything. Granlund hasn't shown a whole lot and doesn't have a defined role in this team, and Sutter is clearly trending downwards. Remember, this is the same Goldy that was playing in the top line and EP40 was rackin up points. People can argue that Goldy was riding Petterson coat tails but he also hasn't been putting up the points in a torrid pace like he was earlier in the season. It seems to me, that Leivo's insertion on the top line has benefited more towards Boeser. Either way, lets be patient with Goldy, Baertchi and Virtanen got the same treatment and had the same problems their first few seasons here.

I didn't say give up on Goldy, I think you are misreading the message that I posted.  It has come to a point where the coaching staff needs to preach to Goldy to simplify his game even more defined into a moment by moment breakdown rather than the big picture of shift by shift or let alone game by game basis.

 

 He plays good for maybe 1/2's to 2/3's of a 35-45 second shift.  Get him to fully engage on that full shift first and build off that getting to shift to shift and then game to game.  Goldy hasn't shown he can play the full shift and mentally coasts. 

 

Sure its his first FULL season in the NHL, but this is his 6th full season in Pro-hockey split between the NHL and AHL.  Its not like all of a sudden this message of work ethic should be new to Goldy, its been evident since he was drafted by the Sharks.  Both organizations that had Goldy (San Jose and Vancouver) have committed a lot of resources and coaching exposure to have Goldy align with their level of work ethic expectations.  Like Benning has said in interviews, its up to Goldy to buy into the message, and that starts by playing and competing a full shift.

[OneSeventeen]

So many scenarios could push Goldobin out of the lineup. When I watch him play I don't think that's clear to him. Leivo has already pushed him off the top line. And he's never responded with a big game or a consistent effort to show that he deserves that spot back. That's telling. 

[filthycanuck]

13 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

I didn't say give up on Goldy, I think you are misreading the message that I posted.  It has come to a point where the coaching staff needs to preach to Goldy to simplify his game even more defined into a moment by moment breakdown rather than the big picture of shift by shift or let alone game by game basis.

 

 He plays good for maybe 1/2's to 2/3's of a 35-45 second shift.  Get him to fully engage on that full shift first and build off that getting to shift to shift and then game to game.  Goldy hasn't shown he can play the full shift and mentally coasts. 

 

Sure its his first FULL season in the NHL, but this is his 6th full season in Pro-hockey split between the NHL and AHL.  Its not like all of a sudden this message of work ethic should be new to Goldy, its been evident since he was drafted by the Sharks.  Both organizations that had Goldy (San Jose and Vancouver) have committed a lot of resources and coaching exposure to have Goldy align with their level of work ethic expectations.  Like Benning has said in interviews, its up to Goldy to buy into the message, and that starts by playing and competing a full shift.

Yeah I know u werent saying that but just pretaining to the other posters as a whole. You bring up good points, I really do think his trajectory almost exactly mirrors that of Sven Baertchi. Exact same problems that came from another organization

[mll]

.

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by mll

[Wolfgang Durst]

On 2/17/2019 at 10:21 PM, Crabcakes said:

Benning is the one making the calls on these deals not Green.  There are a couple of things here.

1. Doug Wilson is a wily veteran GM and one should be very careful when dealing with him
2. Goldy was in his last year before waiver eligibility when the deal was made.  If you're not sure he's ready to play at the NHL level, the price had better be right.

Benning and company seem to be very sure of themselves with respect to developing players.  I think that in general, the do a very good job but clearly, not every player works out.  Granted, some of the players who have come and gone were long shots but even some players with decent pedigree haven't done that well.  I'm talking about Goldy and Pouliot on the present roster.  I think that Benning was afraid that he would lose Hansen for nothing to Vegas in the expansion draft.  Wilson knew this.  I'm sure he has a copy of Machiavelli's The Prince and Sun Tsu's The Art of War in his office.  

O.K. let's assume Jim did his due diligence on Goldobin.

1. Did Jim miss his poor compete level   ?

2. Did Jim miss his poor defensive game?

3. Did Jim miss his inability to get on the forecheck ?

4. Did Jim miss his poor play along the boards, especially in puck battles?

 

Jim could have called for a draft pick which would have been better, because with a pick you have a player pool you can choose from.

What I was saying in my first post was, that Travis is learning his lesson what aspects of Goldy's game can be improved and what aspects of his game can't be improved.

Travis has been working with Goldy more than 1 year. I am very sorry that I have to say this, but I can see only marginal improvements to his game.

 

Here is a statement from Jim about Goldy:

“When the puck is at our blue-line, it has to get out and when it’s at their blue-line, it’s got to get in. When he gets it in, he has the freedom to create. But there have to be rules to be successful and he has to be able to follow those.

 

It's not possible to phrase it in a more succint and more simple way than Jim did. But Goldy either did not get it or can't execute it on the ice.

He is not going to be a player.

[SingleThorn]

33 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Jim could have called for a draft pick which would have been better, because with a pick you have a player pool you can choose from.

This is 100% opinion and has no factual context. Doubt that he had any 'option' re taking a draft pick ( my opinion ).

[Nucker 67]

Goldobin is a very skilled offensive player. If this was OTT, he would've been waived or traded, but Benning doesn't want to give up on him. He sees something special, and patience may be required. The Canucks wouldn't get much for him right now, so it doesn't make sense to trade him for a low return. Might as well see what they've got in him first, develop him to the best of their ability, and then see what they have. By the time the Canucks are ready to compete in the playoffs, Goldobin will either be playing on another level or he won't be with the team.

[OneSeventeen]

31 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Goldobin is a very skilled offensive player. If this was OTT, he would've been waived or traded, but Benning doesn't want to give up on him. He sees something special, and patience may be required. The Canucks wouldn't get much for him right now, so it doesn't make sense to trade him for a low return. Might as well see what they've got in him first, develop him to the best of their ability, and then see what they have. By the time the Canucks are ready to compete in the playoffs, Goldobin will either be playing on another level or he won't be with the team.

I agree that Goldonbin has a special skillset. But I think Benning trading for him had more to do with the Sharks offering the best package for Hansen. Goldobin ticked a lot of boxes. Young, highly skilled, and successful in the AHL. Plus a 4th round pick turning into a 1st if the Sharks won the cup. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

O.K. let's assume Jim did his due diligence on Goldobin.

1. Did Jim miss his poor compete level   ?

2. Did Jim miss his poor defensive game?

3. Did Jim miss his inability to get on the forecheck ?

4. Did Jim miss his poor play along the boards, especially in puck battles?

 

Jim could have called for a draft pick which would have been better, because with a pick you have a player pool you can choose from.

What I was saying in my first post was, that Travis is learning his lesson what aspects of Goldy's game can be improved and what aspects of his game can't be improved.

Travis has been working with Goldy more than 1 year. I am very sorry that I have to say this, but I can see only marginal improvements to his game.

 

Here is a statement from Jim about Goldy:

“When the puck is at our blue-line, it has to get out and when it’s at their blue-line, it’s got to get in. When he gets it in, he has the freedom to create. But there have to be rules to be successful and he has to be able to follow those.

 

It's not possible to phrase it in a more succint and more simple way than Jim did. But Goldy either did not get it or can't execute it on the ice.

He is not going to be a player.

I think you're forgetting that outside a handful of kids, nearly every player taken at the draft has to work on their compete level and/or has holes in their game. Taking a 3rd round pick e.g., wouldn't have got you a better player in all likelihood.

 

 

 

[johngould21]

Goldobin looked like the missing piece for the top six the first twenty games this season. Since then he looks like AHL Goldobin, is he going to turn it around? I don't see it, at all.