TheOgRook Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 14 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Actually management has set our rebuild back 3-4 years in a SAD attempt to win again with Hank and Danny. You and JB have to stop trying to relive 2011 finals.. You have to know when to hold em and when to fold em.... Listen desi, he has completely flipped this roster minus the two contracts that are untradable. And the one who refuses to waive. All in under three seasons. It's called a rebuild. I find it funny for such a "knowledgable" fanbase you guys cant seem to get it. But like you said you have a right to your opinion.. just like all the flaming JBs trades get.. then you go quiet when it's clear he has won the trade and move onto the next whipping boy. Rinse and repeat.. your type never changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmTheCan Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Willie coaches scared. He is risk adverse and will fall back on his system as a way of insulating himself from blame when the team loses. He is slow to react to changing circumstance and is incapable of making adjustments mid game. He will trot out the same anemic power play unit for 40+ games until it's categorically proven that it isn't working, then he'll give them another 10 games to figure it out "just because." His deployment virtually guarantees that a segment of the roster will be frustrated with ice time and creates an atmosphere of confusion and animosity. He seems to get frustrated by the media's portrayal of him and has a tendency to dig his heels in when questioned about his decisions. What did he see in Vey that everyone else in the league was completely blind to? What does he think Megna is going to bring to the table at 27 that he hasn't shown already? Sometimes I feel like willie makes choices he knows will piss people off for the sake of pissing people off. He's less coach and more of an internet troll with a great moustache. 3/10. Bottom 1/3 of coaches in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweathog Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: Is Willie D the right coach for the rebuild? Yes, at this point at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Just now, TheOgRook said: Listen desi, he has completely flipped this roster minus the two contracts that are untradable. And the one who refuses to waive. All in under three seasons. It's called a rebuild. I find it funny for such a "knowledgable" fanbase you guys cant seem to get it. But like you said you have a right to your opinion.. just like all the flaming JBs trades get.. then you go quiet when it's clear he has one the trade and move onto the next whipping boy. Rinse and repeat.. your type never changes Haha too funny Desi One problem though. Tell me a trade Benning has actually won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, darkpoet said: Love it! would our owner higher experienced guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, TheOgRook said: Listen desi, he has completely flipped this roster minus the two contracts that are untradable. And the one who refuses to waive. All in under three seasons. It's called a rebuild. I find it funny for such a "knowledgable" fanbase you guys cant seem to get it. But like you said you have a right to your opinion.. just like all the flaming JBs trades get.. then you go quiet when it's clear he has one the trade and move onto the next whipping boy. Rinse and repeat.. your type never changes And then brought in more garbage constracts like Loui E and Sutter.... #FireBenning, #FireLinden , #FireWillie - time to bring in an managment team that has actual NHL management experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, JamesB said: But it's fun being a crotchety old man. Absolutely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 36 minutes ago, hlinkas wrister said: Reading comprehension is your friend, friend. I haven't come down on either side of the argument so I'm hardly status quo or upset about anybody questioning anything. For the record, I don't think we are better, or worse off for WD being the coach through this transition. He's merely the placeholder until the rebuild is complete and we are ready to compete again. What's laughable to me is how you and the rest of the fanboys blow a gasket when a B grade rookie prospect gets his ass stapled to the bench for not playing the right way. You think lord Babcock would handle it any differently? Think again. Guarantee he would but I also agree we don't need a Babcock level yet however, we do need an experienced coach like Gallant or Hitch the carreer minor league coach experiment has failed just like the Oilers with EakIns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Love it! would our owner higher experienced guys? Why would you want to hire an experienced manager or coach ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomato Pajamas Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 29 minutes ago, Alflives said: Why doesn't he bench the Twins and Errikson? Aren't they the worst three for soft play, and bad turnovers? No. Say what you want about the Sedins, but they're number 2 and 3 in scoring. Right now, we just don't have the talent to replace them. So be my guest if you want bench the twins, but what they offer goes beyond the scoresheet; they're leaders and mentors for the kids. As for the turnovers, Loui actually has a pretty good +/- on give aways to turnovers. 16 give aways to 37 take aways. 26 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Ahhh. Loui E says hello to you. Willie is the worst coach in the NHL and has lost this team. 28th overall is nothing to brag about. #FireWillie I don't put all the blame on Willie, but he does play a significant part in it. But I'll give him credit, he really did play to win. He overplayed Miller, he stuck to the Sedins, he held people accountable (well sort of), he kept on playing high energy depth forwards, all to give the team a chance of winning. Of course CDC will bash Loui and Edler and the Twins, but it's not feasible to cut them out of your roster. I'd agree you'd have to manage them different (like last night, with Loui on Bo's wing), but this team just isn't good. That's the thing, when you coach a bunch of guys you create a bond with them; you believe in them. Do any of us believe we're going to make the playoffs? Probably not. But if you believed in the Sedins, if you believed in Miller and your defensive core. If you believed in your forward depth, then what was keeping you back from winning? You can claim that the team has given up on Willie, but Willie has never given up on this team. And that's something I can salvage from this fiasco. And one last thing, I think Tom Rowe is the worst coach right now. Absolutely ruined a great thing they had down in Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 My problem with Willie is that he lacks intuition. Over the course of these 2 and 2/3 seasons to date, we've heard the same tired phrase over, and over, and over: "I don't really know what I have in him, need to see a bit more before I can be sure." This is a red flag. For someone supposedly touted as being good with young players and development to not have the ability to foresee talent and ability is a pretty big misnomer. Willie's entire methodology when it comes to coaching since he's been with the Canucks is, play to not lose. Sit back, don't make any mistakes and try to capitalize on other teams mistakes. Except other teams know this, so when it comes time to play the Canucks, opposing teams strategies are to go all out and put insane pressure on the team which forces Willie back on his heels, reverting the team to playing always on the defensive side of the puck. We have the horses needed to play an up tempo style of game, but Willie is risk averse. This is why Goldobin was benched last night; he assessed the play and determined that Hutton would successfully gain possession of the puck (which he did). Now, if Hutton was a good soldier, and played to the "systems" how could he have anticipated that Goldobin would correctly guess how the play would unfold and have the foresight to not just gain possession of the puck but also do so to be in a position to PERFECTLY (given the circumstances, the puck did bounce a little bit) pass the puck to a streaking Goldobin who turned on the jets for a breakaway and beat Bishop? I believe that answer lies in a fractured locker room, two opposing groups of players young and old. The veterans who have been in the league for years follow the systems without hesitation because that is what they know how to do; this is why we see the Sedins out on the ice with 2 minutes left to go defending a lead, or trying to get a tying goal, or with the opposing net empty. The young guns, while they will follow the systems 95% of the time, will from time to time take risks as they see plays or opportunities develop. This is why we see Bo Horvat make individual attempts to gain the zone and take the puck to the net, or Goldobin streaking up the ice on a breakaway. It's probably also why we don't see any purely youth based lines, but a mixture of veteran and youth to try and instill that devotion to the systems as much as possible. The young players represent and know that they are the succession of the team, they are also more confident in their abilities to make plays outside of the context of the "system". This deviates from Willie's preferred approach to the game, and probably a cause for why he's always so twitchy on the bench because while they're out there on the ice they are outside his control. I would suspect that Willie is more at ease with the veterans on the ice because he knows they will play the system as devised, and if a play breaks down they will either dump and change, or back off and retreat. This is ultimately why Willie is not a good candidate moving forward for this team as more youth is injected, he's too set in his ways of coaching to be able to adapt his style to one more conducive to getting the most out of young players and allowing them to play to their individual strengths within the confines of a team strategy. A coach like Marc Crawford, or Peter Laviolette, heck even Lindy Ruff or Paul Maurice would be better suited to the direction this team is travelling. As for giving a score to Willie? 3/10. He's managed to bring some youth along and follow his mantra, but how much creative and offensive potential has been squandered as a result? I think the success we've seen out of the youth this season is more out of spite for WD than because of WD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Haha too funny Desi One problem though. Tell me a trade Benning has actually won. Shinkarik for Granlund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Just now, Tomato Pajamas said: No. Say what you want about the Sedins, but they're number 2 and 3 in scoring. Right now, we just don't have the talent to replace them. So be my guest if you want to bench if you want to bench the twins, but what they offer goes beyond the scoresheet; they're leaders and mentors for the kids. As for the turnovers, Loui actually has a pretty good +/- on give aways to turnovers. 16 give aways to 37 take aways. Pretty tough not to be number 2 and 3 in scoring when you play 75% of all the powerplay time and lead the team in minutes played...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 1 minute ago, VanGnome said: My problem with Willie is that he lacks intuition. Over the course of these 2 and 2/3 seasons to date, we've heard the same tired phrase over, and over, and over: "I don't really know what I have in him, need to see a bit more before I can be sure." This is a red flag. For someone supposedly touted as being good with young players and development to not have the ability to foresee talent and ability is a pretty big misnomer. Willie's entire methodology when it comes to coaching since he's been with the Canucks is, play to not lose. Sit back, don't make any mistakes and try to capitalize on other teams mistakes. Except other teams know this, so when it comes time to play the Canucks, opposing teams strategies are to go all out and put insane pressure on the team which forces Willie back on his heels, reverting the team to playing always on the defensive side of the puck. We have the horses needed to play an up tempo style of game, but Willie is risk averse. This is why Goldobin was benched last night; he assessed the play and determined that Hutton would successfully gain possession of the puck (which he did). Now, if Hutton was a good soldier, and played to the "systems" how could he have anticipated that Goldobin would correctly guess how the play would unfold and have the foresight to not just gain possession of the puck but also do so to be in a position to PERFECTLY (given the circumstances, the puck did bounce a little bit) pass the puck to a streaking Goldobin who turned on the jets for a breakaway and beat Bishop? I believe that answer lies in a fractured locker room, two opposing groups of players young and old. The veterans who have been in the league for years follow the systems without hesitation because that is what they know how to do; this is why we see the Sedins out on the ice with 2 minutes left to go defending a lead, or trying to get a tying goal, or with the opposing net empty. The young guns, while they will follow the systems 95% of the time, will from time to time take risks as they see plays or opportunities develop. This is why we see Bo Horvat make individual attempts to gain the zone and take the puck to the net, or Goldobin streaking up the ice on a breakaway. It's probably also why we don't see any purely youth based lines, but a mixture of veteran and youth to try and instill that devotion to the systems as much as possible. The young players represent and know that they are the succession of the team, they are also more confident in their abilities to make plays outside of the context of the "system". This deviates from Willie's preferred approach to the game, and probably a cause for why he's always so twitchy on the bench because while they're out there on the ice they are outside his control. I would suspect that Willie is more at ease with the veterans on the ice because he knows they will play the system as devised, and if a play breaks down they will either dump and change, or back off and retreat. This is ultimately why Willie is not a good candidate moving forward for this team as more youth is injected, he's too set in his ways of coaching to be able to adapt his style to one more conducive to getting the most out of young players and allowing them to play to their individual strengths within the confines of a team strategy. A coach like Marc Crawford, or Peter Laviolette, heck even Lindy Ruff or Paul Maurice would be better suited to the direction this team is travelling. As for giving a score to Willie? 3/10. He's managed to bring some youth along and follow his mantra, but how much creative and offensive potential has been squandered as a result? I think the success we've seen out of the youth this season is more out of spite for WD than because of WD. It's all 100% bang on. Our young players are having their talents beaten out of them. JB better make the coaching change now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Haha too funny Desi One problem though. Tell me a trade Benning has actually won. Even just the two most recent.. you won't see value in anything Jb does cause you are blinded by hate. If you can't see the value of the trades he's made you never will and I'd rather not waste any more time talking to a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said: Pretty tough not to be number 2 and 3 in scoring when you play 75% of all the powerplay time and lead the team in minutes played...... And you're the only players allowed to just play offensive minded, trying anything to create scoring, including numerous risky passes that result in turnovers galore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkpoet Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 WD: "That's enough Pavel. You're benched" "Antoski ! Let's go !" (back pat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: I don't think people understand how Willie works. First, he makes young players earn their ice time. That's exactly what you've described Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Hutton, Tryamkin doing. Once you prove that you can play Willie gives players all the rope in the world to work things out. Everybody slumps from time to time. They sort it out and move forward. The fact that there is a list of young players who have climbed up the pecking order proves that Willie is not completely unfair. It's a pretty damn hard ladder to climb though. If a player does climb it, he knows that he has achieved something. In Willies world, it's hard to slide down the ladder. However, players do slide. Did anyone notice Larsen last night? No, he was hanging out by the popcorn machine. A couple of weeks ago, people were going, why is Larsen in when Biega has been just fine. Well, I think Biega is now ahead of Larsen since player reviews. You are right about WD's approach but it is not the only way and many successful coaches, do the opposite with talented youngsters...They put them in positions best suited to their skill set to see how they can handle it. THey then assess the areas of weakness and then coach/teach the player how to overcome those. Winnipeg's treatment of Laine is the best example where he was told to not focus right away on the 200' game but to learn how to score at the NHL level and they would teach the rest over time. Chicago has a habit of introducing talented youth the same way, playing them in the top 6 to learn from their best. Babcock coaches in a similar fashion. It is an approach that allows the team and player to achieve success based on the player's strengths rather than focusing on their weaknesses, which is what WD's approach is. I believe, more success is achieved with the approach that allows talent to flourish and then teaches the other aspects of the game. Love Wally Buono's mantra..."If you can't live with their mistakes, you will never get to see them achieve greatness". WD is risk averse and wants to create a team of 200', responsible guys. That is admirable and has its value but in so doing, he is restricting the offensive creativity of the more talented players which is evidenced by the brutal offensive numbers this team produces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Shinkarik for Granlund And that's just the tip of the iceburg. But prolly the most glaring win so far. The thing I like about his trades is he always finds a way to get fair value. What a lot of folks don't get is that not every trade is a landslide nor should it be/ or will be in the cap era. Getting a fair value in a trade is what I look for and I'm not opposed to Win/win trades. Which most of his trades have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomato Pajamas Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Just now, kingofsurrey said: Pretty tough not to be number 2 and 3 in scoring when you play 75% of all the powerplay time and lead the team in minutes played...... They have to be managed differently, but that's the role the Sedins have had for the better part of the last decade. They're still 2 of the most skilled forwards we have. Other teams have to play their shut down lines against them, which allows Bo to shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.