Alexandre Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, JamesBlondage said: Unfortunatley this isn't about a 10 game losing streak, this is about 3 years of horrible player deployment and his inability to adjust to what's happening on the ice. He stubbornly refuses to try anything different and gets out coached almost every single game... My point is the coach is always blamed when the team is losing. A lot of the criticism against Willie today (can't develop young players, can't coach offensive players) was directed at Vigneault. In hindsight, these criticism on Vigneault turned out to be unjustified. I think this will be the case for Willie as well. The coach's player deployment and type of game his team plays is determined by the players you have. The teams Vigneault and Willie has had (so far) is not laden with dynamic, offensive dynamos and therefore must play defensive. This will result in a boring game with the offense reduced. It is what it is. Not Willie's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 18 minutes ago, TheOgRook said: Listen desi, he has completely flipped this roster minus the two contracts that are untradable. And the one who refuses to waive. All in under three seasons. It's called a rebuild. I find it funny for such a "knowledgable" fanbase you guys cant seem to get it. But like you said you have a right to your opinion.. just like all the flaming JBs trades get.. then you go quiet when it's clear he has one the trade and move onto the next whipping boy. Rinse and repeat.. your type never changes A rebuild is on for sure, and it has been for some time. But don't you think that something has changed in the last month? Since player reviews. I'd like to think that they haven't been hanging on to the idea (or wish) that Hank and Danny can still win a cup. 3 years ago, Linden did say that they were going to give the Sedin's another shot at the cup. After the Tort's debacle, I could go along with it but for me, with the playoff loss to Calgary, they showed that it wasn't going to happen. But has ownership been hanging on to this notion? Is this what was behind the Eriksson signing and the Gudbranson signing? This season, it is clear that the Sedins have lost a step and their point production will likely fall by 20 points each. It's time to move on so Benning has dealt 2 good players for the future. So, I think the rebuild is on, but they're all in on the rebuild now. Something has changed and there is going to be some short term pain. I think that they're going to get there faster now than they would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 8 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: I know a lot of people don't agree with his benching of kids and line combinations (which I certainly don't), but one thing he's done really well is getting the guys to play 100% every night. The systems might not be great, but he's getting some real work ethic out of these players. Other teams commentators have noticed this time and time again, and they know the Canucks are always fighting right to the end and in games - they rarely get blown out like most bad teams. Credit WD for that. Now you add in some top-end skill like Dahlen, Goldobin, Juolevi, Boeser and hopefully a high 1st overall pick and you've got a pretty good recipe going. We just need that skill and it's coming. That's a perfect way to take our coaching with a positive slant. Don't know what people would expect from a change... Perhaps the bench would be managed differently and the CDC wouldn't have line combinations and minute allocations to bitch about. But maybe the players wouldn't play as hard for a new coach either. They seem to like him and thats not always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkpoet Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Alexandre said: My point is the coach is always blamed when the team is losing. A lot of the criticism against Willie today (can't develop young players, can't coach offensive players) was directed at Vigneault. In hindsight, these criticism on Vigneault turned out to be unjustified. I think this will be the case for Willie as well. The coach's player deployment and type of game his team plays is determined by the players you have. The teams Vigneault and Willie has had (so far) is not laden with dynamic, offensive dynamos and therefore must play defensive. This will result in a boring game with the offense reduced. It is what it is. Not Willie's fault. AV was by far the best coach this team has ever had. He was the fall-guy for all the drama going on with management and the goaltending situation at the time. It had zero to do with his record as a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 The issue I see is Willie is playing like his job is on the line, and instead of trying to put the best forwards in, and the best positions. He's looking for the wins to keep his job. As a result he sticks only with guys that he trusts, not weather they've earned it or not. Boucher and Goldy are dynamic forwards, that provide not just excitement. But they make things happen out there. WD's approach seems all wrong. If he just puts the best players, rolls four lines. Don't over use certain players. Keep guys like Boucher and Goldy on the power play. I'm pretty sure wins will come, and fans will flock to Roger's Arena to see the new guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Just now, Crabcakes said: A rebuild is on for sure, and it has been for some time. But don't you think that something has changed in the last month? Since player reviews. I'd like to think that they haven't been hanging on to the idea (or wish) that Hank and Danny can still win a cup. 3 years ago, Linden did say that they were going to give the Sedin's another shot at the cup. After the Tort's debacle, I could go along with it but for me, with the playoff loss to Calgary, they showed that it wasn't going to happen. But has ownership been hanging on to this notion? Is this what was behind the Eriksson signing and the Gudbranson signing? This season, it is clear that the Sedins have lost a step and their point production will likely fall by 20 points each. It's time to move on so Benning has dealt 2 good players for the future. So, I think the rebuild is on, but they're all in on the rebuild now. Something has changed and there is going to be some short term pain. I think that they're going to get their faster than they would have. Don't forget why those two were brought in. I'm all for the old school way of doing things. Sheltering our kids with vets. Bringing a guy like Erik in is a no brainer IMO. He will provide some stability in the room and is young enough to grow with a new core. As far as LE goes.. I won't judge this contract till year 2 is over. He has had notoriously bad starts on new teams and sadly our team is pretty weak ATM. All these moves that have some confused are moves made to provide "some" stability through the rebuild. Cause you never wanna go full Edmonton. Look at how many prospects they have ruined through the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAVA-1 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Creepy Crawler said: I'm open for trading Willie for Green, Willie can teach the boys in Utica. I wish I could agree with that, but almost every game they seem to give up going into the third, and in several games they only showed up in the first period. They aren't giving up going into the 3rd. This team is overmatched (over 60 minutes) against most teams and goaltending is bailing them out in most games. The past regime has left this regime in a terrible position in the way it has to transition the next core. Bo and company aren't ready and we don't want an Edmonton scenario.....do we? My biggest concern is our vets, they are being (over)used in every situation and I think in the wrong way. Edler wouldn't likely be the give away machine he is if he played 3rd or 4th dman minutes (like he should) but alas the last regime has left us with no other option, the Sedins (as great as they were) are not near top line players any more but alas the last regime has left us with no other option as well. Now I'm not saying Willie is without flaws but I find it comical that Willie gets ripped for using Chaput, Skille etc because he trusts them and plays them in rolls they shouldn't be in. HMMMM!! sounds like AV all over again, any one remember Taylor Pyatt and such, most people on hear would say AV was a great coach, same for Torts (Columbus is doing great). These guys (and others) are good coaches but so much is dependent on the situation they are put in (out of there control) from the onset. I see a light at the end of the tunnel but we will be in this tunnel for a couple more years and there will be lots of highs and lows as we venture thru it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said: You are right about WD's approach but it is not the only way and many successful coaches, do the opposite with talented youngsters...They put them in positions best suited to their skill set to see how they can handle it. THey then assess the areas of weakness and then coach/teach the player how to overcome those. Winnipeg's treatment of Laine is the best example where he was told to not focus right away on the 200' game but to learn how to score at the NHL level and they would teach the rest over time. Chicago has a habit of introducing talented youth the same way, playing them in the top 6 to learn from their best. Babcock coaches in a similar fashion. It is an approach that allows the team and player to achieve success based on the player's strengths rather than focusing on their weaknesses, which is what WD's approach is. I believe, more success is achieved with the approach that allows talent to flourish and then teaches the other aspects of the game. Love Wally Buono's mantra..."If you can't live with their mistakes, you will never get to see them achieve greatness". WD is risk averse and wants to create a team of 200', responsible guys. That is admirable and has its value but in so doing, he is restricting the offensive creativity of the more talented players which is evidenced by the brutal offensive numbers this team produces. I'm putting it out there by way of an explanation. I was frustrated as hell last night when I realized that Goldobin was done for the night shortly after scoring his goal. I can't tell you what the best way do deal with young players is. I don't think that Willie takes a random approach though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, darkpoet said: AV was by far the best coach this team has ever had. He was the fall-guy for all the drama going on with management and the goaltending situation at the time. It had zero to do with his record as a coach. The sad thing is he was chased out of town by the same group claiming they know willie sucks.. I'm not saying willie is as good as av, but he's a good coach, and I don't think we need to chase him just so CDC has a new whipping boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 16 minutes ago, TheOgRook said: Even just the two most recent.. you won't see value in anything Jb does cause you are blinded by hate. If you can't see the value of the trades he's made you never will and I'd rather not waste any more time talking to a wall. Apologists always want to evaluate a trade even after only 1 game has been played. That is hilarious. I love it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 49 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Haha too funny Desi One problem though. Tell me a trade Benning has actually won. Baertschi for a pick was a huge win Granlund for Shink was a huge win Gudbranson for McCann a huge win Hansen and Burrows trades huge wins Sutter and Bonino i would call a tie Phillip Larsen was a loss Kesler return I'd call a tie, he totally handcuffed us and his ntc was not given by JB Prust for Kass and a 5th is a wash/tie Am I missing any? You know what? I'll even put not trading hamhuis up as a loss . I won't count vrbata cause it was pretty clear he was not cooperating and Arizona had the same problem this year. So That's 5 wins 2 losses 3 ties Considering trades are 50/50 that's a pretty good record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, TheOgRook said: Don't forget why those two were brought in. I'm all for the old school way of doing things. Sheltering our kids with vets. Bringing a guy like Erik in is a no brainer IMO. He will provide some stability in the room and is young enough to grow with a new core. As far as LE goes.. I won't judge this contract till year 2 is over. He has had notoriously bad starts on new teams and sadly our team is pretty weak ATM. All these moves that have some confused are moves made to provide "some" stability through the rebuild. Cause you never wanna go full Edmonton. Look at how many prospects they have ruined through the years. Lol. God help us if we go full Edmonton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Just now, Crabcakes said: I'm putting it out there by way of an explanation. I was frustrated as hell last night when I realized that Goldobin was done for the night shortly after scoring his goal. I can't tell you what the best way do deal with young players is. I don't think that Willie takes a random approach though I can't remember the last time I actually jumped off my couch to celebrate a goal by the Nucks but I did when GOldy scored last night. Just pent-up expectation that one day, we will see on our team what so many other teams see on a regular basis. To realize WD had benched him afterwards (I assume for taking a risk and blowing the zone early) P'd me off beyond belief and I found myself not really caring about the game from then on. The outcome wasn't important...seeing what talent we have to look forward to is. WD isn't random, he is probably the opposite in that he is extremely stubborn (he himself has admitted it). I just happen to disagree with his chosen coaching strategy in developing talented youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Apologists always want to evaluate a trade even after only 1 game has been played. That is hilarious. I love it.... Lol I'm not spoon feeding you.. you can look through the list of his trades. I understand some will not understand the fine details. It can be tough if you don't know much about the game that's why I'm trying to help you. Clearly it isn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said: I can't remember the last time I actually jumped off my couch to celebrate a goal by the Nucks but I did when GOldy scored last night. Just pent-up expectation that one day, we will see on our team what so many other teams see on a regular basis. To realize WD had benched him afterwards (I assume for taking a risk and blowing the zone early) P'd me off beyond belief and I found myself not really caring about the game from then on. The outcome wasn't important...seeing what talent we have to look forward to is. WD isn't random, he is probably the opposite in that he is extremely stubborn (he himself has admitted it). I just happen to disagree with his chosen coaching strategy in developing talented youth. Old school junior Coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkpoet Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said: I just happen to disagree with his chosen coaching strategy in developing talented youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 1 minute ago, DIBdaQUIB said: I can't remember the last time I actually jumped off my couch to celebrate a goal by the Nucks but I did when GOldy scored last night. Just pent-up expectation that one day, we will see on our team what so many other teams see on a regular basis. To realize WD had benched him afterwards (I assume for taking a risk and blowing the zone early) P'd me off beyond belief and I found myself not really caring about the game from then on. The outcome wasn't important...seeing what talent we have to look forward to is. WD isn't random, he is probably the opposite in that he is extremely stubborn (he himself has admitted it). I just happen to disagree with his chosen coaching strategy in developing talented youth. Me too. FWIW, I think Godobin called for that pass. We couldn't see his face but there was a stick wave. He knew he could beat the defender in a foot race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 15 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said: Baertschi, Granlund for picks were huge wins. Gudbranson for McCann a huge win Hansen and Burrows trades huge wins Sutter and Bonino i would call a tie Phillip Larsen was a loss Kesler return I'd call a tie, he totally handcuffed us and his ntc was not given by J Prust for Kass and a 5th is a wash/tie Am I missing any? That's 5 wins 1 loss 3 ties Baertschi, Granlund for picks/ Shinky - too early to say..... need to see how the picks taken turn out... Getting older players for prospects always looks good immediately but may really bite us in the backside for years...... We will have to revisit these 2 deals.. We can argue about it for years.... That will be fun. Gudbranson for McCann a huge win - too early so say... McCann may have a stellar career - Guddy is looking like a 4-5 D man and overpaid. Hansen and Burrows trades - too early to say. We will need 2-3 year at least to see what we have... could be small skill guys that don't make it. Sutter and Bonino i would call a tie - yah i can agree with that. Sutter is a better player but on a worse contract. Phillip Larsen was a loss - yes 100 %. No grit. No thanks. Kesler return - i think we actually lost on this deal. Great 2 C that could really help our club right now... Prust for Kass and a 5th - that is a loss. We got damaged goods and Kass may play another 5 years.. That was 100 % a loss. So i see 5 Too early to say 1 - tie 3 - Loss So basically so far no clear decisive trade wins from what i see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 One thing I see a lot is people trying to praise WD for developing some of our young players already.... Last time I checked besides the Sedins and Eriksson, Sutter, Edler, who else is he supposed to play? The team is full of young prospects/players eventually these guys are going to start breaking out because they have to play, so how come WD gets praised for their development when he's forced to play them in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 25 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Haha too funny Desi One problem though. Tell me a trade Benning has actually won. Shinkaruk for Granlund Burrows for Dahlen Hansen for Goldobin + Conditional 4th 2014 3rd rd pick (Keegan Iverson) for Dorsett Garrison for 2014 2nd rd pick 2015 2nd rd pick for Baertschi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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