[Proposal] Getting our young RHD Stud

[dayner]

Hi Everyone, First time being an OP.

 

I was thinking about this upcoming draft and how cool it would be for the Canucks to be drafting number one. I have seen Nolan Patrick and he does have a high ceiling, maybe not McJesus or Matthews ceiling but still a relatively high one still.

 

However I have also been watching clips of Timothy Liljegren and he does look like he COULD be a Drew Doughty type of D-man which makes me salivate.

 

From the Hockey Writers:

Liljegren is not only gifted with an intelligent hockey mind, making him a playmaking asset for his team everywhere on the ice. He has also acquired a certain toolbox of skills to put his intelligence into practice. His skating as well as his puck handling abilities, and not to forget his shot, are some of the things that make him stand out of the horde. He doesn’t necessarily have some additional layers that allow him to do more than his peers. He just does everything better.

 

So lets just say that we get the #1 Draft pick, I am still all for going after Patrick, BUT, I keep wondering if there is a team out there that would trade us a 3-5 draft pick to pick him and I came up with this.

 

TRADE

 

Vancouver

Tanev

Hutton

2017 CLB 2nd Round Draft Pick (assuming they pass it on to us, which i believe they will)

2017 Van 3rd Round Draft Pick

 

Phoenix

1st Round Draft Pick 

Luke Schenn (for one more year)

 

And with that pick the Canucks take Timothy Liljegren.

 

For Vancouver

The chance of having a top 2 guy but a top end RHD is too good of a chance to pass up. With Hutton gone we can move Groot to the left side as a second pairing LHD.

 

I just have an image of a 2018-2019 D-Pairing (obviously we would need to do something with Edler for this to happen.................)

 

Juolevi-Liljegren

Tryamkin-Stetcher

Brisebois-Gudbranson

 

For Arizona

Its not a secret that John Chayka is looking for a RHD to play with OEL that will allow him to take more chances offensively. It is also known that as an analytics guy Chayka is on board the Tanev train cause he is an analytics monster. Tanev can also be a 'vet' presence on the team at 28 if Doan and Vrbata are gone at the end of the year. Hutton can help with their D mobility and would look good with a core made up of Murphy, Chychrun and Goligoski added to OEL and Tanev.

 

That's my thoughts, proceed to flame away.

[Pears]

So we trade one of our only defensemen who can play defense at an elite level (who's a defensive RD), for someone who's ceiling is a little higher than Juolevi's? It just does not make any sense, even less so adding Hutton onto it. 

[-AJ-]

Usually trade proposals seem to involve offering too little, but I think you've actually offered too much on our side. On top of that, we have a pretty deep d-corps with several guys who could turn out to be studs one day (Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin, Juolevi). Any of our four young defenders could someday surprise and become top two defensemen.

[dayner]

I would somewhat disagree. Yes tanev is our best defensive D-man but in reality we are not a playoff team and by the time we are Tanev will be what....31? 32? I just believe we should maximize the value he has to help our rebuild along the way. I am not totally sold on Hutton yet so I have added him in but as always minds can change.

 

I just feel Hutton and stretcher are too defensively suspect to warrant STUD top 2 statues. Liljegren oozes it. Price is high but worth it in my humble opinion

 

Appreciate the feedback.

[Pears]

23 minutes ago, dayner said:

I would somewhat disagree. Yes tanev is our best defensive D-man but in reality we are not a playoff team and by the time we are Tanev will be what....31? 32? I just believe we should maximize the value he has to help our rebuild along the way. I am not totally sold on Hutton yet so I have added him in but as always minds can change.

 

I just feel Hutton and stretcher are too defensively suspect to warrant STUD top 2 statues. Liljegren oozes it. Price is high but worth it in my humble opinion

 

Appreciate the feedback.

Why? Tanev's the kind of defenseman you build a team around. He's widely considered one of the most underrated defensemen in the entire league. You build your foundation around those guys, not trade them away because they're a few years older than the rest of the core. 

[kenhodgejr]

Two defenseman who i think will be major impact players for their teams are Dante Fabro and Charles McaVoy. What would it cost to land one of these prospects? Edler + ?

[Dral]

1 hour ago, dayner said:

I would somewhat disagree. Yes tanev is our best defensive D-man but in reality we are not a playoff team and by the time we are Tanev will be what....31? 32? I just believe we should maximize the value he has to help our rebuild along the way. I am not totally sold on Hutton yet so I have added him in but as always minds can change.

 

I just feel Hutton and stretcher are too defensively suspect to warrant STUD top 2 statues. Liljegren oozes it. Price is high but worth it in my humble opinion

 

Appreciate the feedback.

Whats wrong with a well marinated and grilled to perfection, mature 31yr old Tanev leading a young D-core?

 

Webers 31, Burns 31, Keith 33, anyone remember Pronger or Neids or Lidstrom at 31? When I really think about it... a 31 yr old Tanev is exactly who I want as my #1 Dman going into the cup finals

[dayner]

Tanev is not the type of D-man you build your team around. Dral named all the #1s you build around and what do they have in common? The all around ability which includes the ability to score and put up points which is the knock to Tanev, he is good but won't ever exceed 30 pts in a season, not good enough from a #1.

 

Never gonna pry those up and coming d-men away from their respective teams, for the exact reason you say, they could be game changers.

 

Sticking with me post. Make that trade or pick the D-man if we're picking 3-6

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, dayner said:

Hi Everyone, First time being an OP.

 

I was thinking about this upcoming draft and how cool it would be for the Canucks to be drafting number one. I have seen Nolan Patrick and he does have a high ceiling, maybe not McJesus or Matthews ceiling but still a relatively high one still.

 

However I have also been watching clips of Timothy Liljegren and he does look like he COULD be a Drew Doughty type of D-man which makes me salivate.

 

From the Hockey Writers:

Liljegren is not only gifted with an intelligent hockey mind, making him a playmaking asset for his team everywhere on the ice. He has also acquired a certain toolbox of skills to put his intelligence into practice. His skating as well as his puck handling abilities, and not to forget his shot, are some of the things that make him stand out of the horde. He doesn’t necessarily have some additional layers that allow him to do more than his peers. He just does everything better.

 

So lets just say that we get the #1 Draft pick, I am still all for going after Patrick, BUT, I keep wondering if there is a team out there that would trade us a 3-5 draft pick to pick him and I came up with this.

 

TRADE

 

Vancouver

Tanev

Hutton

2017 CLB 2nd Round Draft Pick (assuming they pass it on to us, which i believe they will)

2017 Van 3rd Round Draft Pick

 

Phoenix

1st Round Draft Pick 

Luke Schenn (for one more year)

 

And with that pick the Canucks take Timothy Liljegren.

 

For Vancouver

The chance of having a top 2 guy but a top end RHD is too good of a chance to pass up. With Hutton gone we can move Groot to the left side as a second pairing LHD.

 

I just have an image of a 2018-2019 D-Pairing (obviously we would need to do something with Edler for this to happen.................)

 

Juolevi-Liljegren

Tryamkin-Stetcher

Brisebois-Gudbranson

 

For Arizona

Its not a secret that John Chayka is looking for a RHD to play with OEL that will allow him to take more chances offensively. It is also known that as an analytics guy Chayka is on board the Tanev train cause he is an analytics monster. Tanev can also be a 'vet' presence on the team at 28 if Doan and Vrbata are gone at the end of the year. Hutton can help with their D mobility and would look good with a core made up of Murphy, Chychrun and Goligoski added to OEL and Tanev.

 

That's my thoughts, proceed to flame away.

If Phoenix is in need of a RHD why wouldn't they keep that pick and just take Liljegren themselves?

[Bissurnette]

6 hours ago, Pears said:

So we trade one of our only defensemen who can play defense at an elite level (who's a defensive RD), for someone who's ceiling is a little higher than Juolevi's? It just does not make any sense, even less so adding Hutton onto it. 

 

6 hours ago, ajhockey said:

Usually trade proposals seem to involve offering too little, but I think you've actually offered too much on our side. On top of that, we have a pretty deep d-corps with several guys who could turn out to be studs one day (Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin, Juolevi). Any of our four young defenders could someday surprise and become top two defensemen.

 

When you get those back to back responses, you know you have made a good trade proposal.

 

The resulting defense core for both teams looks good. However, it does leave our depth on Dmen suspect. I'm also not sure about how physically mature/dominant Liljegren is because I haven't seen him enough other than in highlights. So I'm not sure how he would handle the physicality in the west, therefore I don't know if you want to hitch your wagon to that ride. I think you might have just really liked the Lidstrom Rafalski pairing on the wings a few years ago - can't blame you, who didn't.

 

That said, good trade proposal.

[timberz21]

4 hours ago, Dral said:

Whats wrong with a well marinated and grilled to perfection, mature 31yr old Tanev leading a young D-core?

 

Webers 31, Burns 31, Keith 33, anyone remember Pronger or Neids or Lidstrom at 31? When I really think about it... a 31 yr old Tanev is exactly who I want as my #1 Dman going into the cup finals

Wow, these guys are not even in the same league as Tanev.  You can't compare them.

 

It's like saying, well remember Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr at 31.....then what's wrong with a 31 years old Eriksson?

 

Once those defensive defenseman loses a step, they quickly fall into a bottom pairing.  All-around elite defenseman finds way to adjust their game to continue at the same level.

[Ghostsof1915]

So do you have a crystal ball, and show Gudbranson walking, or him not working out?

[ReggieBush]

Doug Harvey never scored more than 10 goals in a season, yet he is one of the greatest defensemen of all time.

 

I'll take a Dman that can contain another team's top line over a Dman that puts up big points any day if the week

[Ghostsof1915]

17 minutes ago, ReggieBush said:

Doug Harvey never scored more than 10 goals in a season, yet he is one of the greatest defensemen of all time.

 

I'll take a Dman that can contain another team's top line over a Dman that puts up big points any day if the week

Folks seem to forget the primary role of a defenseman is to defend. That's block shots, use your stick, intercept passes, create havoc, and disrupt the oppositions scoring or at least contain the players enough, that only low quality shots get to the net, if at all. 

[smithers joe]

i remember back when, people argued who the best defenseman was, orr or harvey? offensively orr was the greatest, harvey was an opposing defensive d man. i loved both of them. if you had both on your team, you'ld have the best of both worlds.

[wallstreetamigo]

It is becoming more and more obvious that to be a top team you need an elite level puck moving offensive dman. We don't have that. When Edler and Tanev are your big minute guys you aren't going to be elite. 

 

Unfortunately, acquiring those guys even when they are still just prospects is generally prohibitively expensive or practically impossible. Drafting and developing them is really the only way to get them.

 

Juolevi may turn out to be that high end guy but that will come down to development.

 

Edler and Tanev are both good but not great defensemen. Both solid second pairing types or at best complimentary 1st pairing guys with a top end offensive guy. Too many holes in their game to be considered all around top pairing guys. If either can get us a young elite level puck mover or the pick to get one you do that deal all day long.

[mll]

8 hours ago, kenhodgejr said:

Two defenseman who i think will be major impact players for their teams are Dante Fabro and Charles McaVoy. What would it cost to land one of these prospects? Edler + ?

Poile specifically drafted Ds in the 1st 2 rounds because their D-pool is weak.  They also have no use of Edler - their top-4 is set.  The Predators are one of the few teams (not sure there is another) who will be protecting 4 Ds.  Edler is also paid more than Josi, Ellis and Ekholm who fit perfectly the Laviolette system and they are younger.

 

Word was that the Bruins were interested in Landeskog but the asking price had to include Carlo or McAvoy so discussions stopped.  McKenzie says he can't imagine that the Bruins would be willing to trade McAvoy or Carlo.

 

 

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

8 hours ago, Dral said:

Whats wrong with a well marinated and grilled to perfection, mature 31yr old Tanev leading a young D-core?

 

Webers 31, Burns 31, Keith 33, anyone remember Pronger or Neids or Lidstrom at 31? When I really think about it... a 31 yr old Tanev is exactly who I want as my #1 Dman going into the cup finals

Tanev is offensively inept, though. Why on earth would he be even mentioned in the same breath as the rest of those guys? 

[dayner]

2 hours ago, ReggieBush said:

Doug Harvey never scored more than 10 goals in a season, yet he is one of the greatest defensemen of all time.

 

I'll take a Dman that can contain another team's top line over a Dman that puts up big points any day if the week

Hey I was a fan of the New Jersey days where Scott Neidermayer would be the offensive #1 D and Scott Stevens and the Defensive #1 playing on the other side helping protect Neidermayer as he was a smart but risky player.

 

That being said its hard to find a line-up now with that same dynamic and watching them succeed playoff time. the NHL is now in an age where you need that all around number one who can move the puck, score and play defense. 

 

I do believe D-men like gudbranson take a year to properly adapt to new systems so I see him signing for 2 years at 4 million and being better than he showed this year.

 

7 hours ago, Baggins said:

If Phoenix is in need of a RHD why wouldn't they keep that pick and just take Liljegren themselves?

 

Chayka has talked about trying to be competitive as early as next year. He has great young pieces and its time to put them to work, this would mean adding some 'vet' presence to the young core. He doesnt want to keep getting younger and younger a la Edmonton Oilers and watching it not pan out.

[ReggieBush]

7 minutes ago, dayner said:

Hey I was a fan of the New Jersey days where Scott Neidermayer would be the offensive #1 D and Scott Stevens and the Defensive #1 playing on the other side helping protect Neidermayer as he was a smart but risky player.

 

That being said its hard to find a line-up now with that same dynamic and watching them succeed playoff time. the NHL is now in an age where you need that all around number one who can move the puck, score and play defense. 

 

I do believe D-men like gudbranson take a year to properly adapt to new systems so I see him signing for 2 years at 4 million and being better than he showed this year.

 

 

Chayka has talked about trying to be competitive as early as next year. He has great young pieces and its time to put them to work, this would mean adding some 'vet' presence to the young core. He doesnt want to keep getting younger and younger a la Edmonton Oilers and watching it not pan out.

 

I am guessing you are not the biggest Juolevi fan?