Don’t Believe Anything Iain MacIntyre Tells You

[Rocksterh8]

Don’t Believe Anything Iain MacIntyre Tells You About The Canucks And Rebuilding

MARCH 10, 2017, 4:20 PM | JACKSON MCDONALD

Iain MacIntyre was on Team 1040’s morning show yesterday to discuss the team’s direction and the job Willie Desjardins has done as head coach. MacIntyre provided about six minutes of analysis, but it was an early exchange that caught my ear and struck me as a bit misguided:

Iain MacIntyre: “The one thing that I’ll say, that I think is unfair about criticism of the hockey team generally is that it seems often now people are advocating… that the priority needs to be on development and bringing kids along and making the team younger… and yet they’re outraged and hyper-critical when the team loses.” 

Don Taylor: “There you go. That’s well said.” 

IM: “You can’t have everything. You can have one or the other. If people think that the young players are already better than the experienced players I’m afraid that’s just not reality. Older players, even ones that might be considered journeymen, or pedestrian, or depth players in the NHL, if they’ve been around they still have more know-how, they have more trade craft than younger players who have, granted, perhaps more talent, and certainly more potential, but haven’t learned to play the game.”

There’s a lot to chew on here, so I’ll deconstruct this point by point.

It seems often now people are advocating… that the priority needs to be on development and bringing kids along and making the team younger… and yet they’re outraged and hyper-critical when the team loses.  

This is perhaps the greatest misconception to plague the Vancouver hockey media over the past three seasons, and to be fair, this isn’t unique to Iain MacIntyre in the slightest. He’s just the most recent example. The purpose isn’t to put him on blast, but rather to finally put a group of misconceptions that have permeated the local media to bed.

What MacIntyre is completely failing to understand here, as others have before him, is the distinction between criticism of process and criticism of results. I don’t claim to have insight into the thoughts and feelings of every Canucks fan, but the majority of the criticism I’ve seen and the majority of which we’ve published in this space and others like it, has very little to do with the fact that the Canucks are losing, and much more to do with how they’re losing.

They’ve been raked over the coals for playing boring, low-event hockey, for doling out undeserved ice time to marginal players, or for scratching promising youngsters, but they’ve rarely been criticized simply for failing to close out games.

You can’t have everything. You can have one or the other. 

This was the highlight of MacIntyre’s radio hit for me. It’s funny to see one of management’s biggest defenders in this market suggest that the team can’t have it both ways considering having it both ways has been their stated goal from day one. It’s even funnier in the context of the rest of the interview, where IMac goes on to defend the Canucks’ attempts to be competitive and rebuild at the same time, something he just said doesn’t work. Hmm…

In this instance, IMac has provided us with a classic example of moving the goal posts. The message from the outset from this management group has been that they could compete for the playoffs, and that a winning environment will help the development of their young players. There have been many people in this market that disagree with that direction, but it only seems fair to judge the team based on the criteria they themselves have established.

If people think that the young players are already better than the experienced players I’m afraid that’s just not reality. 

It’s difficult to know what players IMac is talking about specifically, but at face value this couldn’t be further from the truth. In general, this line of thinking is extremely flawed from the outset, as it can be used to imply that experience makes Paul Gaustad a better forward than Auston Matthews. That’s likely distorting MacIntyre’s point, but his assertion doesn’t ring any more true when applied to the Canucks. This season, only three Canucks’ players produced offense at a top-six clip: Bo Horvat, Jannik Hansen, and Sven Baertschi. Those players rank 5th, 7th, and 8th among Canucks forwards in TOI/GP, respectively. So, the idea that ice time has been divvied up in a manner befitting a meritocracy doesn’t exactly hold water. Even Hansen, one of the team’s most established players prior to the trade to the San Jose Sharks, wasn’t being used to his full potential at even-strength, and certainly not on the power play.

Older players, even ones that might be considered journeymen, or pedestrian, or depth players in the NHL, if they’ve been around they still have more know-how, they have more trade craft than younger players who have, granted, perhaps more talent, and certainly more potential, but haven’t learned to play the game.”

Given what MacIntyre says immediately following his claim that the Canucks’ veterans are still better options than the team’s youth, it’s likely he’s actually referring to less established players like Nikolay Goldobin and Reid Boucher. That doesn’t make MacIntyre’s claims any less ridiculous, though. While players like Brandon Sutter and Jayson Megna may have the edge over these players in terms of experience, that experience isn’t driving results. They’re among the team’s worst forwards by both offensive and defensive metrics, whereas Boucher’s numbers have been positively glistening, albeit over a small sample. Goldobin is still an unknown commodity for the most part, and carries a reputation for poor defensive play, but he at least provides the team with some form of tangible value, which is more than can be said for some players in the team’s lineup.

I think I speak for most fans when I say that frankly I’m sick and tired hearing that this team has to fight tooth and nail to finish 20th overall because the market won’t support a team that finishes 30th overall. Clearly, this market can’t stand the thought of a rebuild, right? I assume that’s why the trades for Jonathan Dahlen and Nikolay Goldobin, transactions that clearly substituted short-term pain for long-term gain, where met with almost unanimous approval by the fanbase? And why the moves the team has made with it’s eye on the present day have been much less well-received?

Anyone who suggests this market isn’t accustomed to losing needs a serious history lesson, not only regarding the past three years, but also the majority of the thirty or so that preceded the West Coast Express Era. What’s made the Canucks’ recent run of awful play so unpalatable hasn’t been the losses themselves, but the amount of assets, money, and effort that’s been poured into putting lipstick on this pig. Brandon Sutter, Erik Gudbranson, Loui Eriksson… those aren’t transactions that were made with the intention of making the team’s future brighter. They were made for the express purpose of improving the team in the here and now. From that standpoint, they failed spectacularly.

To his credit, IMac does have enough sense to see that the team’s young players have more talent and potential than their older counterparts. They just have to learn to play the game. From where I stand, it would seem that the easiest way to learn to play would be for those players to get as many reps as possible while the games don’t mean anything, rather than by sitting in favour of players that won’t be here next season.

Maybe that’s unfair criticism. You can’t have it both ways. Unless you’re the Canucks from six months ago, apparently.

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[IBatch]

Cant believe I just read that crossword puzzle.  But I get where the OP is going with this.  

[Pete M]

I guess the Sedins play cannot be talked about...their play and results are below par to what the fanbase is use to seeing...this is a major factor to the performance of this team.

The elephant in the room is not being talked about.

[ice orca]

 I guess I Mac meant by people are the fans. I think he is the number one management media mouth piece. probably never paid a thin dime to go to a Canucks game. Of all the Media guys he is probably the most arrogant towards the fan base almost mocking them at times as if they are a bunch of dumb idiots. His elitist attitude is second to none in the Vancouver media.

[tas]

11 minutes ago, ice orca said:

 I guess I Mac meant by people are the fans. I think he is the number one management media mouth piece. probably never paid a thin dime to go to a Canucks game. Of all the Media guys he is probably the most arrogant towards the fan base almost mocking them at times as if they are a bunch of dumb idiots. His elitist attitude is second to none in the Vancouver media.

hint: it's because they are.

 

iain's alleged arrogance is nothing compared to the hubris of canucks fans thinking they know more than the accredited media when every shred of information they receive to base their beliefs on are provided by those same media members who actually have legitimate access to the team. 

[Gaudette Celly]

Still more believable than CanucksArmy, who make it a habit of gettings most things wrong.

[You Mad Bro?]

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[Baggins]

Who the hell is Jackson McDonald?? And....

 

59 minutes ago, Rocksterh8 said:

MARCH 10, 2017, 4:20 PM | JACKSON MCDONALD

 

I think I speak for most fans

No, no you don't McD.

[combover]

More outraged the team keeps losing while not consistently playing young guys. guys like biega 

( who I like) Larsen megna skille even chapoo aren't the future of this team. 

Labate griener pedan subban virtanen to name a few would be just as effective or ineffective as the those guys and they are part of the developing  future.

As great as millers been markstrom is a guy that should have played a lot more this season but the unrealistic playoff mandate handcuffs the coach who seems dead set on winning over development using the AHL and prospects as a last resort. Even when the team acquires a very skilled forward he has to earn it, he has to prove he reliable, tough to do when the coach won't use you in all situations and use mistakes as teaching tools yet down the bench sits megna (just for example) who doesn't miss a shift regardless of his play. 

 

 

[Toews]

21 minutes ago, tas said:

hint: it's because they are.

 

iain's alleged arrogance is nothing compared to the hubris of canucks fans thinking they know more than the accredited media when every shred of information they receive to base their beliefs on are provided by those same media members who actually have legitimate access to the team. 

I think the author makes a good case that IMac shouldn't be questioning anyone's intelligence. 

[the_impersonator13]

24 minutes ago, tas said:

hint: it's because they are.

 

iain's alleged arrogance is nothing compared to the hubris of canucks fans thinking they know more than the accredited media when every shred of information they receive to base their beliefs on are provided by those same media members who actually have legitimate access to the team. 

If you want to talk about arrogance then Jeff Patterson leads the pack by a country mile.

[Wilbur]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Cant believe I just read that crossword puzzle.  But I get where the OP is going with this.  

What I got the from article going with this was we have no chance of winning now so why are Biega, Megna, Eriksson, Skille, Chaput, Larsen, Sutter, Daniel, Henrik, Edler, and Miller getting any significant playing time whatsoever, play the rooks 17 minutes a night, and WAH we aren't tanking hard enough to squeeze out every last tenth of a percent in draft lottery odds.

[riffraff]

I love format.

[Smiley2051]

15 minutes ago, the_impersonator13 said:

If you want to talk about arrogance then Jeff Patterson leads the pack by a country mile.

I will admit I wasn't a big fan of JPat to start out, but the guy knows how to ask questions post game, like actual inquisitive or "challenging" (?) questions; the kind of stuff you'll never get from Joey Kenward/Canuckstv etc

 

[Tajun]

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

I guess the Sedins play cannot be talked about...their play and results are below par to what the fanbase is use to seeing...this is a major factor to the performance of this team.

The elephant in the room is not being talked about.

What elephant? They're getting old, and are no longer first line stars. That's why we are trying to bring in younger stars. That's not an elephant, it's an unfortunate fact of life.

[stawns]

Guaranteed the same tools on this board screaming about a rebuild will turn on the kids the second they show their inexperience.

[Camel Toe Drag]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Guaranteed the same tools on this board screaming about a rebuild will turn on the kids the second they show their inexperience.

The same tools screaming at their kids*

[Wilbur]

26 minutes ago, stawns said:

Guaranteed the same tools on this board screaming about a rebuild will turn on the kids the second they show their inexperience.

It'll be because the kids aren't "elite" enough.  Gotta have those top 3 picks y'know.

[Alflives]

Excellent job by the OP.  Considering our core is old, and we still are horrific, the fans want hope for a better future.  Of course we want to see our young guys in the line-up.  JB and TL will hire a new coach this summer.  We will see, by whom it is, and the length of the contract the philosophy of direction.  Other than the Twins, Sutter, Edler, and Tanev (oh and the mistake that is Errikson) if there are other over 25 skaters on this team it will be the same path.  

[189lb enforcers?]

2 hours ago, Pete M said:

I guess the Sedins play cannot be talked about...their play and results are below par to what the fanbase is use to seeing...this is a major factor to the performance of this team.

The elephant in the room is not being talked about.

Prez Slim is the PR equivalent of hiring the world's sexiest woman to be the complaint department's face.

 

As long as he is the face of the Orca, which one of us could possibly sling poop at him? Best deflector of criticism against the team imaginable. 

 

Even when he admits that the roster has an element of space, reminiscent of the back-40 pasture where you retire old horses, like the Sedins, he gets zero media flak. Unreal. Solid PR campaign win.