Can People Please Stand Up and Be Counted to Offset the Loud Anti WD Campaign on Here (DISCUSSION)

[JM_]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

And a solid defense, and capable forwards, and access to the space time continuum.

and change-ups. Lots and lots of change-ups. 

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

 

I was wondering when someone was going to bring up this BS HNIC dig in defence of Willie. Congratulations you beat @alfstonker to it. 

 

Lets see.... Willie had his best season with Gully at his side, AND we didn't stand in the way of Gully getting a head coaching gig, as is the custom in the NHL. What exactly did we do wrong there? How does that prove anything about Wlllie, other than maybe it was Gully that helped him to his best season?

 

Sully was an ASSISTANT here... he never had head coaching duties. His new coach - that would be WILLIE - wanted his own guys not the assistants Torts wanted. 

 

Torts has also done a complete change in his coaching style now vs. when he was with us. 

 

Using that graphic to defend Willie does the opposite. 

 

 

I was wondering when you would bring up this BS. 

I realise (even if you don't ) that coaches can't really be compared due to the fact they are coaching different rosters but hell you started it.

 

Let me enlighten you. It seems Gulutzan learned a lot from assisting Willie when you see how pitiful he was at Dallas does it not? I mean how else could he have been such a failure, despite having some very good players on that team?

 

 

 

[Ronning4center]

I think  you are selling the fan base short here sir.  Yes there are a few high school types making fun....but the majority can see this man is nothing but an average rookie coach.

His deployment is head scratching...not just to us...but to a dozen or so long term professional analysts.  He is slow to react to in game coaching changes made by the other team and his love of a defensive system in the face of constant negative results has reduced the crowd in the building significantly.

 

This is why there is hate.  He will be fired and replaced with an experience coach.  Three years from now lets re hash this thread and see.

[Dr. Crossbar]

As painful as it is right now, firing Willie isn't the answer. When this process began, there was no way to avoid this pain with aging vets and so much inexperience.

 

The fact that four coaches, Vigneault, Gulitzan, Sullivan, and Torts, were here on the bench and went on to have success immediately after leaving shows that it's time to focus on changing the players not the coach. He inherited a mess that burned through four coaches.

 

That should be enough for anyone to step back and say, you know, we've been down that road, we need to keep our focus on changing the players not the coach. This time let's try sticking with a coach like we did with AV and Crawford.

 

Our current roster is filled with a lot of depth stop gaps and bridges to what's on the way. Far too much time and negative energy is spent on analyzing these stop gaps instead of seeing that they're all we have until guys like Boeser, Dahlen, Goldy, Juolevi, Gaudette, etc, fill those holes.

 

Megna's not scoring but Granlund is. Edler's showing his age but Stetcher stepped up. Larsen didn't work out but Tryamkin is a beast. We still have the Sedins but Bo emerged this season. We've been relying on guys like LaBate and Skille but Baertschi and Sutter are close to 20 goals. Even Chaput has played well enough to earn his own Do We Need Him thread.

 

Like others, I'm not opposed to a coaching change if someone becomes available that you just can't pass up. It's just been evident for years that we need to get younger and ice a better team. That's actually happening. 

 

Willie has one more season on his contract. Let him play it out. We'll see better players in the line-up next year along with our current young crop one more year further experienced. We need to be better and take a step forward. No room for backward. That's in Willie's hands next year.

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

As painful as it is right now, firing Willie isn't the answer. When this process began, there was no way to avoid this pain with aging vets and so much inexperience.

 

The fact that four coaches, Vigneault, Gulitzan, Sullivan, and Torts, were here on the bench and went on to have success immediately after leaving shows that it's time to focus on changing the players not the coach. He inherited a mess that burned through four coaches.

 

That should be enough for anyone to step back and say, you know, we've been down that road, we need to keep our focus on changing the players not the coach. This time let's try sticking with a coach like we did with AV and Crawford.

 

Our current roster is filled with a lot of depth stop gaps and bridges to what's on the way. Far too much time and negative energy is spent on analyzing these stop gaps instead of seeing that they're all we have until guys like Boeser, Dahlen, Goldy, Juolevi, Gaudette, etc, fill those holes.

 

Megna's not scoring but Granlund is. Edler's showing his age but Stetcher stepped up. Larsen didn't work out but Tryamkin is a beast. We still have the Sedins but Bo emerged this season. We've been relying on guys like LaBate and Skille but Baertschi and Sutter are close to 20 goals. Even Chaput has played well enough to earn his own Do We Need Him thread.

 

Like others, I'm not opposed to a coaching change if someone becomes available that you just can't pass up. It's just been evident for years that we need to get younger and ice a better team. That's actually happening. 

 

Willie has one more season on his contract. Let him play it out. We'll see better players in the line-up next year along with our current young crop one more year further experienced. We need to be better and take a step forward. No room for backward. That's in Willie's hands next year.

Pretty much.

[10pavelbure96]

The only things I agree with is that Bo has flourished under him and he deserves credit for that.  And I really don't like it when people call him twitchy. Nobody likes a bully.

 

But he definitely seems to favour plugs. Mike Babcock played a team full of youngsters last year and still does this year and gives the leafs' young players loads of ice time. There is no way that WD is better than Mike Babcock.

 

But there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

[JM_]

41 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I was wondering when you would bring up this BS. 

I realise (even if you don't ) that coaches can't really be compared due to the fact they are coaching different rosters but hell you started it.

 

Let me enlighten you. It seems Gulutzan learned a lot from assisting Willie when you see how pitiful he was at Dallas does it not? I mean how else could he have been such a failure, despite having some very good players on that team?

 

 

 

So maybe math class is in order. That looks to me like a .500 season and a winning season there.... 

 

And tell HNIC about comparing coaches. 

 

With all your fluster in defending Willie, you've never really come up with a reason not to try a new coach. 

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

32 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

As painful as it is right now, firing Willie isn't the answer. When this process began, there was no way to avoid this pain with aging vets and so much inexperience.

 

The fact that four coaches, Vigneault, Gulitzan, Sullivan, and Torts, were here on the bench and went on to have success immediately after leaving shows that it's time to focus on changing the players not the coach. He inherited a mess that burned through four coaches.

 

That should be enough for anyone to step back and say, you know, we've been down that road, we need to keep our focus on changing the players not the coach. This time let's try sticking with a coach like we did with AV and Crawford.

 

Our current roster is filled with a lot of depth stop gaps and bridges to what's on the way. Far too much time and negative energy is spent on analyzing these stop gaps instead of seeing that they're all we have until guys like Boeser, Dahlen, Goldy, Juolevi, Gaudette, etc, fill those holes.

 

Megna's not scoring but Granlund is. Edler's showing his age but Stetcher stepped up. Larsen didn't work out but Tryamkin is a beast. We still have the Sedins but Bo emerged this season. We've been relying on guys like LaBate and Skille but Baertschi and Sutter are close to 20 goals. Even Chaput has played well enough to earn his own Do We Need Him thread.

 

Like others, I'm not opposed to a coaching change if someone becomes available that you just can't pass up. It's just been evident for years that we need to get younger and ice a better team. That's actually happening. 

 

Willie has one more season on his contract. Let him play it out. We'll see better players in the line-up next year along with our current young crop one more year further experienced. We need to be better and take a step forward. No room for backward. That's in Willie's hands next year.

 

 

Sure, but one of Benning's core ideas is having a team that can compete for a wildcard spot, I think that goal has helped to drive guys like Bo as much as anything else. I just don't think Willie is capable of getting there again, whereas a more experienced/better coach may have a better chance of pulling that off, or at least making come down to the last week of the season. I just don't see what Willie brings that can accomplish that.  

 

If Green e.g., can pull a winning record out of that Utica team, maybe we already have a better coach in waiting, I don't know. There are also a lot of assistant coaches like Crow that I think would be much better. I don't see any benefit to having another season under Willie. 

 

 

 

 

 

[alt kilgore]

Perhaps he should have been let go last summer, but now that we are here, there is no reason to fire him. His biggest criticism - that he misuses, or underuses younger players and prospects - because he doesn't trust them yet, will be not served by a new coach. WD now knows these players better, both on the ice and personally. With a new coach, who also wants to win, he would have to start from square one and probably be even less trustworthy with our young prospects. Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

[Bo fan]

14 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

Or Megna might be a candidate.

please - is he not taking Megna and Larsen with him if he goes?

[apollo]

He is the reason the Canucks aren't making the playoffs this year.

 

Who is to blame though? Trevor and Jimbo should shoulder as much if not more of the blame than Willie. 

Come on... Loui 6x6 instead of going after Vanek? I should be GM.

[alfstonker]

51 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

So maybe math class is in order. That looks to me like a .500 season and a winning season there.... 

 

And tell HNIC about comparing coaches. 

 

With all your fluster in defending Willie, you've never really come up with a reason not to try a new coach. 

 

 

 

 

Well of course a winning season is only as good as who you beat to get to the playoffs. Looks like he didn't get it done to me, not even close - why else would he be fired, it's not like he was coaching a team filled with projects, AHLers and 2nd season rookies now was it?

 

AV - is that good enough. I would say Torts but to be honest I can't in all honesty go that far.

 

By the way you use the word "try" like it was a change of toothpaste and if you don't like it you can go back to your old favourite - kind of sums you whiners up I guess. Not really invested, just here for the beer (and the w(h)ine)

 

We see the reason to stick with Willie night after night if you have the ability to read the roster/team selection.

[Bo fan]

Hard to bake a cake if you don't have flour and sugar.  

My only real complaint when it comes to Willie is his deployment of players and his seemingly reluctance or stubbornness  to hold all players accountable by the same measuring stick.

Would we have been  farther ahead in the standings this year with a different coach? We will never know.

But for the most part I think Willie has served the best cake possible  with the ingredients he was given

 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Well of course a winning season is only as good as who you beat to get to the playoffs. Looks like he didn't get it done to me, not even close - why else would he be fired, it's not like he was coaching a team filled with projects, AHLers and 2nd season rookies now was it?

 

AV - is that good enough. I would say Torts but to be honest I can't in all honesty go that far.

 

By the way you use the word "try" like it was a change of toothpaste and if you don't like it you can go back to your old favourite - kind of sums you whiners up I guess. Not really invested, just here for the beer (and the w(h)ine)

 

We see the reason to stick with Willie night after night if you have the ability to read the roster/team selection.

Hey, no issues with you debating my thoughts on the team, but please don't question my commitment to it, there's no call for that. I put $1,000s in to tickets, swag, food and lots time into my hometown team and don't jump to the Chicago or Montreal bandwagon when it suits.

 

I loved AV, but it probably ran its course, it always does for nearly every coach. It will for Babcock in TO some day. 

 

When a business has options for better management its foolish not to try for an edge. Coaches like Willie are everywhere, we can always go back and find one of those. 

 

 

[Rush17]

axe him

 

the team wanted meaningful hockey in March.  he has failed to deliver and the team needs a new face. if it wasn't for the steller goaltending Willie would of been axed last season.  without the elite goaltending we would be on the basement floor with Colorado.   

 

Willie isnt making the team win. they are competing for him. or could they be competing for their goalies.  I think it's more of a msg from management that's making players compete.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

The only things I agree with is that Bo has flourished under him and he deserves credit for that.  And I really don't like it when people call him twitchy. Nobody likes a bully.

 

But he definitely seems to favour plugs. Mike Babcock played a team full of youngsters last year and still does this year and gives the leafs' young players loads of ice time. There is no way that WD is better than Mike Babcock.

 

But there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

Sure, if you ignore the vastly different rosters and vastly different states of the franchises.

 

Toronto's been rebuilding for nearly a decade and has far more NHL ready/aged forwards (a great many of whom were also drafted far higher) that are getting minutes. That shouldn't come as a surprise.

 

We have a stellar Bo and a couple lottery tickets we traded for  in Baer and Granlund who are certainly doing well but are going to have trouble stacking up against a bunch of top 10 picks, generational Mathew's and guys drafted while/before we were  still contending for a cup. Most of our future forwards are still in Europe/Junior/College (or yet to be drafted).

 

We do have some youth being served on D though Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin and an injured Gudbranson are miles better than what Toronto has for youth on their back end and it doesn't even include our top D prospect.

 

We've been rebuilding (generously) for 3.5 years. Patience.

[Dr. Crossbar]

Just now, S'all Good Man said:

Sure, but one of Benning's core ideas is having a team that can compete for a wildcard spot, I think that goal has helped to drive guys like Bo as much as anything else. I just don't think Willie is capable of getting there again, whereas a more experienced/better coach may have a better chance of pulling that off, or at least making come down to the last week of the season. I just don't see what Willie brings that can accomplish that.  

 

If Green e.g., can pull a winning record out of that Utica team, maybe we already have a better coach in waiting, I don't know. There are also a lot of assistant coaches like Crow that I think would be much better. I don't see any benefit to having another season under Willie. 

 

 

 

 

 

I get what you're saying and see both sides. Agree about the compete aspect as the driving factor that pulls everyone forward. That's kinda why I'm patient with Willie right now. When you use that goal to pull everyone forward, eventually you get closer to your end goal of making that spot.

 

We've seen a much different team in the past three weeks with young guys stepping up. The compete has been pulling everyone forward, it just happened too late in the season to actually achieve the wildcard. That should payoff earlier next season.

 

I'm more of don't disrupt that by changing the coach and system. Keep things consistent. Let that carry over so there's even more compete between Oct. and Christmas. That's what we need to see. A new coach in the offseason could have the players trying to adjust to an unfamiliar system rather than building on what we're seeing now and just focusing on moving forward.

 

My thing with Willie is that he's largely succeeded everywhere he's been but here. I can look at it one of two ways: Willie's not a good coach and he's the problem, or we don't have the players necessary for our team to win and that's the problem. Right now I'm looking at the latter.

 

Willie's history in hockey indicates that he knows how to win, succeed, and get the most out of his players. But he inherited a team that has a history of losing, a roster that was trending downward and about to be rebuilt and infused with youth.

 

Granted, Willie doesn't have a lot of experience at the NHL level but he's had a lot of success with young players. He took a losing Medicine Hat team and turned that organization into a two-time winner after five losing years. He's won the Calder and has won at all levels, CHL, AHL, International. And if he's won at all other levels, that tells me he can certainly win at this level.

 

That's just not a history we should be giving up on just yet given what he inherited. The deck was stacked against him. The Canucks have a history of losing. Willie has a history of winning. There's something to that that we shouldn't be so quick to throw away. 

 

It's clear from the compete we're seeing and the emergence of our young guys that Willie is doing something right. I want to see what he can do with better depth.

 

I think as long as we give Willie every opportunity to succeed, he will. We just haven't given him every opportunity to succeed. 

 

I'd like to see Green on the bench with Willie at some point. 

 

 

 

[hearditall]

2 hours ago, Ronning4center said:

I think  you are selling the fan base short here sir.  Yes there are a few high school types making fun....but the majority can see this man is nothing but an average rookie coach.

His deployment is head scratching...not just to us...but to a dozen or so long term professional analysts.  He is slow to react to in game coaching changes made by the other team and his love of a defensive system in the face of constant negative results has reduced the crowd in the building significantly.

 

This is why there is hate.  He will be fired and replaced with an experience coach.  Three years from now lets re hash this thread and see.

We'll see that the Coach's haven't made much difference, it will be the prospects that will be coming in that will make the difference...

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

The only things I agree with is that Bo has flourished under him and he deserves credit for that.  And I really don't like it when people call him twitchy. Nobody likes a bully.

 

But he definitely seems to favour plugs. Mike Babcock played a team full of youngsters last year and still does this year and gives the leafs' young players loads of ice time. There is no way that WD is better than Mike Babcock.

 

But there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

Bo Horvat would have flourished under any NHL coach..IMO..He was a very coachable,mature player..a coaches dream...Being called 'Twitchy'is nothing compared to the insults hurled at Benning,

[Frogger009]

Why is the OP formatted like it's a poem or something?